My Husband Bought 2 Cars Without Telling Me

doogie said:

The market is the market. Cars cost what they’re worth, today.

Barring a GOP sweep in 2024, the new and used car markets will feature tight supply and high prices. Does everyone forget “no new internal combustion engine cars by 2030?”

Cars are inflated due to a major lack of new supply right now. That's not going to continue forever, regardless of ICE or electric vehicles being built. "New-Used" cars are selling for more than what brand new cars sticker for right now because there is no new inventory. Temporary phenomenon unless cars have become an appreciating asset.

doogie said:

The market is the market. Cars cost what they’re worth, today.

Barring a GOP sweep in 2024, the new and used car markets will feature tight supply and high prices. Does everyone forget “no new internal combustion engine cars by 2030?”

Of California? Because CARB largely drives national policies like that because they're such a huge vehicle market on their own.

RaceBannon said:

1to392831weretaken said:

doogie said:

The market is the market. Cars cost what they’re worth, today.

Barring a GOP sweep in 2024, the new and used car markets will feature tight supply and high prices. Does everyone forget “no new internal combustion engine cars by 2030?”

Of California? Because CARB largely drives national policies like that because they're such a huge vehicle market on their own.

The feds had reigned California in on that and then it was recently reversed to let them do their thing

You're right about the car market in the heart of car culture in California

I think this is one of those things where a politician will put something out there not too far away but far away enough that no one will really care

I mean if you put it on a ballot alone I'm not sure the majority really want to see it happen.

"It" being what? All cars electric by 2030? If so, I think if anything you're underselling how unpopular such a ballot measure would be. There are two separate questions this raises, though:

1.) Should that matter? I'm asking seriously. If a majority of the people are misinformed and wrong, should elected officials enact policies that satisfy the majority's harmful desire or should they do what's "right"?

2.) Would the voters be right or wrong to vote down such a measure?

I honestly don't know the answer to either of those questions. I'm pretty sure I could make a sound, well supported argument both for and against for each. Driving pattern data suggests the majority of drivers--even in such an expansive country--would benefit from their next new car being BEV. The catch-22, though, is that selling it to that many consumers (who clearly aren't convinced) would require a fundamental shift in the market (better infrastructure, better choice/variety/cost of product, better enthusiasm to manufacture and sell from manufacturers), and since the status quo is the path of least resistance, this fundamental shift would probably not happen unless there is some kind of mandate in place. So what do you do?

In a way, it reminds me a lot of energy code for buildings. MOST people would skimp on things like insulation, efficient lights and appliances, etc. to save a buck on construction costs. They'd be idiots to do so, but they would. Regulators have stepped in to force them to do what's better for them and future owners, with the nice side effect of lower resource consumption as well. Is this wrong?

Personally, I don't think you can, as the U.S. gubmint or CARB or whoever, just rock up to the podium and say, "No gas by 2030," as it's not that simple. Such a deadline has to be accompanied by investment in infrastructure and incentives to make the deadline they're shooting for possible. They'd better figure out a way to get power in the streets in front of and parking garages under apartments. All of them. They'd better figure out a way to supply all of these millions of charging points with power at the same time. They'd better suggest how this is going to be achieved and funded at the same time as announcing some deadline for getting off the juice so there's time to have it all in place when the deadline arrives. I don't think I've heard/read any such plan.

RaceBannon said:

Well I don't think the internal combustion engine is wrong and I think the majority would agree with me

We can disagree

If and when the technology is widely available and the car is as good or better than now go for it. If you have to mandate it without any kind of approval that raises a question IMO

It does appear that we agree that you can't just throw a date out there and expect the good fairy to make it happen. That's why I think it is more political than practical. Certainly it speaks to you and many fine people like you

I think all but very few people would agree with you. I agree with you. You forget that I'm a petrol head who majored in vehicle design, tracks a 200 hp motorcycle, has taken apart and rebuilt many internal combustion engines (sometimes on my dining room table when my wife is out of town...). I also like flying from time to time, and we're a long ways away from something that'll replace kerosene and a nice, big turbine.

Which is why I'm torn on this whole deadline. On the one hand, there are use cases where batteries currently don't make sense and are likely to still not make sense in a shy decade. Towing a boat or RV, for instance. Activities that are constantly energy intense and can't be made up for by just carrying a fuckton of fuel like a full size truck does. Then again, from what I've read, the ban would only apply to light vehicles and trucks may be exempt. (So, what, everyone just starts driving gigantic trucks to get around the ban? How is that better?)

On the other hand, for the VAST number of use cases, batteries are objectively better. You drive to work very cheaply, quietly, smoothly, (and with shitloads of torque on tap, so bonus), then you come home, plug your car in, and never have to stop at a gas station and waste five minutes of your day again. This would be most people 99% of the time. They would fucking love it within a couple of months, they just don't know it yet and refuse to believe it. "Oh, my car would be just like my phone? Huh, I love my phone!"

So what do you do? On the one hand, a hard mandate seems heavy handed and counterproductive to efficiency in certain use cases. On the other hand, there is little to no motivation for change if the mandate is in place. It's like with the vaccines: light a fire under an industry's ass, and it's amazing what can be accomplished in relatively short time.

This is a subject I'm fairly passionate about, so I'll just leave it there before rambling on for too long. I'll just sum up by saying I love gas engines. I love building them, modifying them, tuning them, riding things that are powered by them. I just love electric motors even more for certain things that I and most people do 99% of the time (hell, even the best dirt bike I've ever ridden was electric, but the company went out of business before economies of scale could bring the price down to a realistic point).

1to392831weretaken said:

You have two sedans, a truck, and a fun car. What's the rush? I'm with the two above: Wait it out.

I didn’t realize how necessary it is for me to have SUV-with-folding-seats type of room. We have a camping trip scheduled in two months. By November I’ll definitely need one.

At least once a week I’m having to use the truck to move some large object and I do not enjoy driving it. 1972 C10 Cheyenne some old man saved from getting cubed or cannibalized, but he didn’t save it by much before he got cubed himself. It was supposed to live in storage, except for 3-5 times per year when needed to haul something huge. Big truck bed, could fit several 4-stars in there and their buddies. But, just like the 560SL with its specialty of sitting and depreciating, it has a very specific purpose.

Right now I’m leaning towards another new Outback, or maybe a 4-Runner. Got a date at the dealership. I think I was mostly trying to talk myself into the XT, as my old one was the absolute most fun car to drive. From 04-06 someone at Subaru decided that an AWD SUV that goes 0-60 in 5.1 was a great idea, and I agree. I got the nostalgia feels, hit up a buddy that is an enthusiast, he sent me pics of his latest project and I got jealous.





Then I looked closer, and after the flashbacks of motor oil subsided, I remembered why I got rid of mine in the first place.