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Fed Supports Waiving Patents

creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,984
edited May 2022 in Tug Tavern
Pfizer and Moderna shares slide.

Good luck in the next outbreak. Capitalism saves the day during this disaster and then we? turn around and fuck the same system that’s going to deliver us from this nightmare.

While everyone is freaking out about Trump and Facebook, this seems like an equally important story.
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  • TheRoarOfTheCrowdTheRoarOfTheCrowd Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,684 Founders Club
    Yes the government has quite obviously LOST their fucking minds... The over reach, mischaracterization of authority and acts of bad faith now abound. Yow.
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  • DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 62,465 Founders Club
    If the intention is to weaken America, then none of this is losing of one's mind. It is intentional.
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  • BleachedAnusDawgBleachedAnusDawg Member Posts: 11,192
    China runs this administration.
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  • HoustonHuskyHoustonHusky Member Posts: 5,964
    edited May 2021
    Moderna guy doesn’t care because they stole their technology...may actually helps them in court. They already offered to release it for free.
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  • HoustonHuskyHoustonHusky Member Posts: 5,964
    ntxduck said:

    creepycoug said:

    Pfizer and Moderna shares slide.

    Good luck in the next outbreak. Capitalism saves the day during this disaster and then we? turn around and fuck the same system that’s going to deliver is from this nightmare.

    While everyone is freaking out about Trump and Facebook, this seems like an equally important story.

    Flip side, the longer the disease lingers in 3rd world countries that can’t afford it, the more likely it mutates into something the current vaccines can’t prevent, and we’re back to March 2020 all over again.
    There are a boatload of 2nd and 3rd gen vaccines on the horizon that would/will fit that void as much as taking the IP from the first movers...hurts them as well. Doing it, especially now, seems bizarre which kinda fits the world we now live in...
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  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 104,620 Founders Club
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  • DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 62,465 Founders Club
    RaceBannon said:

    Makes you wonder if this is orchestrated for someone to then swoop in and gobble up shares
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,984
    ntxduck said:

    creepycoug said:

    Pfizer and Moderna shares slide.

    Good luck in the next outbreak. Capitalism saves the day during this disaster and then we? turn around and fuck the same system that’s going to deliver is from this nightmare.

    While everyone is freaking out about Trump and Facebook, this seems like an equally important story.

    Flip side, the longer the disease lingers in 3rd world countries that can’t afford it, the more likely it mutates into something the current vaccines can’t prevent, and we’re back to March 2020 all over again.
    I hear you and don't pretend to be able to work through all the secondary and tertiary complications. I just have this basic sense of it: individuals do good things solely for the sake of others; organizations whose shares trade on stock exchanges do not. The guys who discovered insulin? Good guys. Very thankful for those guys. The companies racing to find a vaccine? Not good guys. Profit guys. Our whole world has arrived at wherever we are based on this system of 'winning' and without it I would strongly presume we don't even have a vaccine to be discussing rolling out to the 3rd world at a subsidized price or whatever it is we have to do to help the 3rd world.

    In a pandemic like this, companies are not going to risk scarce capital to be good guys; they're going to hold back and do what they have to do to survive and 'wait it out'. Unless they are positioned to leverage what they do against that capital in a given circumstance and hit a bases clearing homerun. Take that possibility away and they're not even in the batters box.
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,984
    And so for this I indulge myself, again, to one of my favorite gifs:


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  • TheRoarOfTheCrowdTheRoarOfTheCrowd Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,684 Founders Club
    Ok, if you are going to nationalize an asset of value then the government needs to agree to step up and pay fair market value for the invention ~ at a price determined by a truly independent 3rd party appraisal unit which includes the resale value of the appropriate multiple of earnings, revenue and cash flow for the expected lifetime associated with a comparable asset that is otherwise not negatively impacted by the same issues ~ otherwise that type of new innovation will cease due to the concern of confusion regarding expected return on investment. This is where the moral high ground argument proposed by people with no skin in the game falls apart like a three year old that wants what the other kid has but has no visible access to the item in question.
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  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    America has spoken. Fuck Trump and his wacky ideas. We will have NO intellectual property protections here. We* bow to China now.
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,984
    doogie said:

    America has spoken. Fuck Trump and his wacky ideas. We will have NO intellectual property protections here. We* bow to China now.

    Scary thought. For real. So vitally important to not only the US, but the world. We? still generate A LOT of invention and discovery here, and there's a good reason for why that is.
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  • KatsCanTipToeKatsCanTipToe Member Posts: 12
    edited May 2021
    RaceBannon said:

    Race's Post is the post of the day IMO... think, understand consequences, and act in some kind of order ~ but it might be important in what order that you do that...
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  • TheRoarOfTheCrowdTheRoarOfTheCrowd Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,684 Founders Club
    edited May 2021
    As much as i think it might be rewarding to duck tape AOC to the kitchen table, I'm offended by her thoughtless rainbow injected rejection of the longer term consequences of most of her agenda, and these kind of issues bring up how 2nd and 3rd generation issues crop up down the line because of sweet sounding ideas that generate unhappy outcomes later. That said, i do get the moral dilemma of the insulin example.
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  • SourcesSources Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 3,964 Founders Club
    edited May 2021
    Patent attorney chiming in. Knee jerk reaction is that this is blatantly unconstitutional, so right on brand for the political climate these days. Also really glad I don't work in life sciences. Yikes

    Edit: I think the right move would have been a compulsory license, but what do I know
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,984
    Sources said:

    Patent attorney chiming in. Knee jerk reaction is that this is blatantly unconstitutional, so right on brand for the political climate these days. Also really glad I don't work in life sciences. Yikes

    Edit: I think the right move would have been a compulsory license, but what do I know

    Help us out here. I express no opinion on the constitutionality of it. Just the policy of it.

    Talk us through the compulsory license. You're in the Club; you're allowed to speak freely.
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  • SourcesSources Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 3,964 Founders Club
    edited May 2021
    creepycoug said:

    Sources said:

    Patent attorney chiming in. Knee jerk reaction is that this is blatantly unconstitutional, so right on brand for the political climate these days. Also really glad I don't work in life sciences. Yikes

    Edit: I think the right move would have been a compulsory license, but what do I know

    Help us out here. I express no opinion on the constitutionality of it. Just the policy of it.

    Talk us through the compulsory license. You're in the Club; you're allowed to speak freely.
    IMO, companies that choose to manufacture any vaccines that would apply to the aforementioned patents should be allowed to so, provided there is a royalty paid to the owners of those patents. That way, vaccine volume is increased, but the inventors of those vaccines still benefit. Hell, the government could subsidize those royalties, it's not like they aren't just printing money endlessly these days.

    These sorts of arrangements are relatively common in patent litigation (which admittedly is steering away from my specialization), and are awarded under a "FRAND" (fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory) criteria. In the US, if a patent is found infringed, courts are much more likely to provide this sort of license instead of an injunction because the latter is considered to be anti-competitive and stifle innovation.

    Happy to elaborate if needed.
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  • pawzpawz Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,047 Founders Club
    creepycoug said:

    ntxduck said:

    creepycoug said:

    Pfizer and Moderna shares slide.

    Good luck in the next outbreak. Capitalism saves the day during this disaster and then we? turn around and fuck the same system that’s going to deliver is from this nightmare.

    While everyone is freaking out about Trump and Facebook, this seems like an equally important story.

    Flip side, the longer the disease lingers in 3rd world countries that can’t afford it, the more likely it mutates into something the current vaccines can’t prevent, and we’re back to March 2020 all over again.
    I hear you and don't pretend to be able to work through all the secondary and tertiary complications. I just have this basic sense of it: individuals do good things solely for the sake of others; organizations whose shares trade on stock exchanges do not. The guys who discovered insulin? Good guys. Very thankful for those guys. The companies racing to find a vaccine? Not good guys. Profit guys. Our whole world has arrived at wherever we are based on this system of 'winning' and without it I would strongly presume we don't even have a vaccine to be discussing rolling out to the 3rd world at a subsidized price or whatever it is we have to do to help the 3rd world.

    In a pandemic like this, companies are not going to risk scarce capital to be good guys; they're going to hold back and do what they have to do to survive and 'wait it out'. Unless they are positioned to leverage what they do against that capital in a given circumstance and hit a bases clearing homerun. Take that possibility away and they're not even in the batters box.
    Scare capital. In THIS economy?

    lulz

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  • 1to392831weretaken1to392831weretaken Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 7,528 Swaye's Wigwam
    In the first three months of 2021, Pfizer earned $3.5 billion from its vaccine. They expect between $15 billion and $30 billion in sales in 2021. They split that revenue with the German company BioNTech, who helped develop. Pfizer stock up ~2% and BioNTech up 156%.

    Moderna employs less than 900 people (so only a couple more than Alabama's football program), projects 2021 sales of $18.4 billion from the vaccine, and stock price is up 372%.

    J&J expects up to $10 billion in sales and stock is up ~8%.

    I think it's a good idea to let a virus mutate out of control in third world countries, as no corporation will ever again invest in research if they know that they'll be capped under $40 billion in revenue for developing a product.
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