In what aspect of life are you best a cheapskate (aka summoning your inner Dave Ramsey thread)?

creepycoug said:

On indulgences, I'd say when we go on vacation we don't like to stay in cheap hotels. That's not a creepy snooty brand thing ... we're both people with a strong sense of place and we both value a nice lobby and room to return to after a long day out fucking around somewhere away from home. So while we don't do Four Seasons very often, we don't go low to save a few $$ on accommodations. Same with food. We spend for food.

Agree, with this. I don't mind staying in a flea bag if it's just me but with the wife and kids much better to spend the money.

creepycoug said:

The main indulgence, however, was college for three kids. We paid for them to go where they got in and wanted to go and didn't insist on an in-state ROI discussions and all that. One kid got into UW honors college and wound up going to the most expensive school of her choices. That has entailed sacrifice. In one case, did it benefit the kid really? No, I don't think so. In another, it was clearly a good investment. And I think in this last one, it will prove to have been, but that story isn't entirely yet written.

I have drawn the line. The oldest came out talking about law school, and I figured she'd profile for one of the NW privates or public OOS, and I don't think her toolkit sets her up to be good lawyer. I told her that while both her sisters were in private college that there wasn't an extra $40k / yr. in the budget for her, so she'd have to borrow, and that I thought it was a risk for her at that time in her life. She needed to live a little off the family tit. She'd be ready for it now, but I think that moment has passed.

The second got into fully funded PhD programs in math and decided beyond the last minute she wanted a masters and will "think about a PhD". Masters are typically not funded. She miraculously found one that is close to fully funded, and we're helping with rent but I made her borrow a small amount for the balance. She's one who gets these opportunities people dream about and tends to take them for granted, so I thought she needed some skin in the game going forward.

The last one wants to get her PhD and be a practicing clinician. We shall see where that goes. Talking about a PhD is fun. Getting one is another matter.

That was our big indulgence as well. They all went out-of-state. Spendy, but it gave them a taste of living on their own and having to figure at least some stuff out for themselves. They were all good students in high school and got some merit money. They were never going to get any need based aid.

HHusky said:

creepycoug said:

The main indulgence, however, was college for three kids. We paid for them to go where they got in and wanted to go and didn't insist on an in-state ROI discussions and all that. One kid got into UW honors college and wound up going to the most expensive school of her choices. That has entailed sacrifice. In one case, did it benefit the kid really? No, I don't think so. In another, it was clearly a good investment. And I think in this last one, it will prove to have been, but that story isn't entirely yet written.

I have drawn the line. The oldest came out talking about law school, and I figured she'd profile for one of the NW privates or public OOS, and I don't think her toolkit sets her up to be good lawyer. I told her that while both her sisters were in private college that there wasn't an extra $40k / yr. in the budget for her, so she'd have to borrow, and that I thought it was a risk for her at that time in her life. She needed to live a little off the family tit. She'd be ready for it now, but I think that moment has passed.

The second got into fully funded PhD programs in math and decided beyond the last minute she wanted a masters and will "think about a PhD". Masters are typically not funded. She miraculously found one that is close to fully funded, and we're helping with rent but I made her borrow a small amount for the balance. She's one who gets these opportunities people dream about and tends to take them for granted, so I thought she needed some skin in the game going forward.

The last one wants to get her PhD and be a practicing clinician. We shall see where that goes. Talking about a PhD is fun. Getting one is another matter.

That was our big indulgence as well. They all went out-of-state. Spendy, but it gave them a taste of living on their own and having to figure at least some stuff out for themselves. They were all good students in high school and got some merit money. They were never going to get any need based aid.

This is kinda key. For us, it helped them grow up a little. One wanted to stay for summer school (I think a boy was involved in this sudden desire to do a summer term), but waited until the last minute and there was no time to arrange housing. She wound up sleeping on a friend's couch for 1.5 months. The ones who were back east have had to deal with travel shit. Wait until the last minute, and it's going to be a problem. Or planning for where you're going to park.

Even now, the one in Grad School is still learning these lessons. Commuting from Providence to Boston is fairly straight-forward. But, of course, she was convinced she'd fly out of Providence and just park her car there for free. Mind you, the break is like over a month. Turns out (1) the airlines we normally fly had stopped flying out of Providence and the options were super expensive, and (2) the Providence airport parking situation was almost as shitty and expensive as Boston.

Ok, round 2. "I'm just going to drive to Boston Dad. It's fine. I'm busy. Let's talk about this later." Oh, fuck. It's fucking Boston. Love the place, but nothing is easy or straight-forward or affordable there. Finally, I just do the fucking research to avoid the "night before" shit-show we've all been through and put my foot down. Hey kid, the absolute cheapest park-and-ride in Boston is $15 / day, it's out in the open in some parking lot near some shitty hotel and you're going to get on a packed bus that is hopefully running on time to get to Logan. Reserve a fucking car! So, for $180, cheaper than parking the car, she's in a full SUV that takes her door to door. We have a dozen or more of those little lessons they've learned, most of them to the same conclusion: don't wait until the night before the flight to figure your shit out, and don't wait until you're about through with finals to let me know when to buy the ticket because it's gonna cost me more, which makes me a grumpy ass.

creepycoug said:

LebamDawg said:

All of the above?

Soon to be liquidating to see how poor I really am. The mrs. is set on a luxury travel abode that will serve as a home for a bit. I would go it cheaper...

What are your travel plans Lebam? Site seeing around the country? We'd like to do that. We are also planning to just check out and spend a year in Europe. It's actually a lot more doable than one would think if you manage your lodging the right way. Last time we were there, we stayed at a little villa in one of the less famous hill towns in Tuscany for like $700 / week. I spent about that much for two nights in Rome. We were central to everything, including Sienna, and Florence. In Paris, same thing. Rented an apartment. It wasn't cheap ... nothing in Paris is ... but it was a helluva lot cheaper than a hotel, and it allowed us to cook a lot, which really saves on $$.

My daughter's name is Siena. One of our favorite spots on our honeymoon trip (my only trip over the ocean). If you haven't been, though, do yourself a favor and check out Lucca. By FAR my favorite stop on that whole trip, and that came very unexpectedly. B&B with four poster bed, separate tub and shower, amazing breakfast, and nice central location for like $100 per night. Food was great, wasn't so touristy, town is really amazing.

creepycoug said:

HHusky said:

creepycoug said:

The main indulgence, however, was college for three kids. We paid for them to go where they got in and wanted to go and didn't insist on an in-state ROI discussions and all that. One kid got into UW honors college and wound up going to the most expensive school of her choices. That has entailed sacrifice. In one case, did it benefit the kid really? No, I don't think so. In another, it was clearly a good investment. And I think in this last one, it will prove to have been, but that story isn't entirely yet written.

I have drawn the line. The oldest came out talking about law school, and I figured she'd profile for one of the NW privates or public OOS, and I don't think her toolkit sets her up to be good lawyer. I told her that while both her sisters were in private college that there wasn't an extra $40k / yr. in the budget for her, so she'd have to borrow, and that I thought it was a risk for her at that time in her life. She needed to live a little off the family tit. She'd be ready for it now, but I think that moment has passed.

The second got into fully funded PhD programs in math and decided beyond the last minute she wanted a masters and will "think about a PhD". Masters are typically not funded. She miraculously found one that is close to fully funded, and we're helping with rent but I made her borrow a small amount for the balance. She's one who gets these opportunities people dream about and tends to take them for granted, so I thought she needed some skin in the game going forward.

The last one wants to get her PhD and be a practicing clinician. We shall see where that goes. Talking about a PhD is fun. Getting one is another matter.

That was our big indulgence as well. They all went out-of-state. Spendy, but it gave them a taste of living on their own and having to figure at least some stuff out for themselves. They were all good students in high school and got some merit money. They were never going to get any need based aid.

This is kinda key. For us, it helped them grow up a little. One wanted to stay for summer school (I think a boy was involved in this sudden desire to do a summer term), but waited until the last minute and there was no time to arrange housing. She wound up sleeping on a friend's couch for 1.5 months. The ones who were back east have had to deal with travel shit. Wait until the last minute, and it's going to be a problem. Or planning for where you're going to park.

Even now, the one in Grad School is still learning these lessons. Commuting from Providence to Boston is fairly straight-forward. But, of course, she was convinced she'd fly out of Providence and just park her car there for free. Mind you, the break is like over a month. Turns out (1) the airlines we normally fly had stopped flying out of Providence and the options were super expensive, and (2) the Providence airport parking situation was almost as shitty and expensive as Boston.

Ok, round 2. "I'm just going to drive to Boston Dad. It's fine. I'm busy. Let's talk about this later." Oh, fuck. It's fucking Boston. Love the place, but nothing is easy or straight-forward or affordable there. Finally, I just do the fucking research to avoid the "night before" shit-show we've all been through and put my foot down. Hey kid, the absolute cheapest park-and-ride in Boston is $15 / day, it's out in the open in some parking lot near some shitty hotel and you're going to get on a packed bus that is hopefully running on time to get to Logan. Reserve a fucking car! So, for $180, cheaper than parking the car, she's in a full SUV that takes her door to door. We have a dozen or more of those little lessons they've learned, most of them to the same conclusion: don't wait until the night before the flight to figure your shit out, and don't wait until you're about through with finals to let me know when to buy the ticket because it's gonna cost me more, which makes me a grumpy ass.

I remember this. The girls stayed on the West Coast, so it wasn't that expensive to visit or come home. But I don't think we ever flew my son home but for Christmas and at the end of the year. ("Enjoy your Spring Break in Montreal. I know it hasn't thawed out yet, but flying you home for a week is ridiculously expensive.")

HHusky said:

creepycoug said:

HHusky said:

creepycoug said:

The main indulgence, however, was college for three kids. We paid for them to go where they got in and wanted to go and didn't insist on an in-state ROI discussions and all that. One kid got into UW honors college and wound up going to the most expensive school of her choices. That has entailed sacrifice. In one case, did it benefit the kid really? No, I don't think so. In another, it was clearly a good investment. And I think in this last one, it will prove to have been, but that story isn't entirely yet written.

I have drawn the line. The oldest came out talking about law school, and I figured she'd profile for one of the NW privates or public OOS, and I don't think her toolkit sets her up to be good lawyer. I told her that while both her sisters were in private college that there wasn't an extra $40k / yr. in the budget for her, so she'd have to borrow, and that I thought it was a risk for her at that time in her life. She needed to live a little off the family tit. She'd be ready for it now, but I think that moment has passed.

The second got into fully funded PhD programs in math and decided beyond the last minute she wanted a masters and will "think about a PhD". Masters are typically not funded. She miraculously found one that is close to fully funded, and we're helping with rent but I made her borrow a small amount for the balance. She's one who gets these opportunities people dream about and tends to take them for granted, so I thought she needed some skin in the game going forward.

The last one wants to get her PhD and be a practicing clinician. We shall see where that goes. Talking about a PhD is fun. Getting one is another matter.

That was our big indulgence as well. They all went out-of-state. Spendy, but it gave them a taste of living on their own and having to figure at least some stuff out for themselves. They were all good students in high school and got some merit money. They were never going to get any need based aid.

This is kinda key. For us, it helped them grow up a little. One wanted to stay for summer school (I think a boy was involved in this sudden desire to do a summer term), but waited until the last minute and there was no time to arrange housing. She wound up sleeping on a friend's couch for 1.5 months. The ones who were back east have had to deal with travel shit. Wait until the last minute, and it's going to be a problem. Or planning for where you're going to park.

Even now, the one in Grad School is still learning these lessons. Commuting from Providence to Boston is fairly straight-forward. But, of course, she was convinced she'd fly out of Providence and just park her car there for free. Mind you, the break is like over a month. Turns out (1) the airlines we normally fly had stopped flying out of Providence and the options were super expensive, and (2) the Providence airport parking situation was almost as shitty and expensive as Boston.

Ok, round 2. "I'm just going to drive to Boston Dad. It's fine. I'm busy. Let's talk about this later." Oh, fuck. It's fucking Boston. Love the place, but nothing is easy or straight-forward or affordable there. Finally, I just do the fucking research to avoid the "night before" shit-show we've all been through and put my foot down. Hey kid, the absolute cheapest park-and-ride in Boston is $15 / day, it's out in the open in some parking lot near some shitty hotel and you're going to get on a packed bus that is hopefully running on time to get to Logan. Reserve a fucking car! So, for $180, cheaper than parking the car, she's in a full SUV that takes her door to door. We have a dozen or more of those little lessons they've learned, most of them to the same conclusion: don't wait until the night before the flight to figure your shit out, and don't wait until you're about through with finals to let me know when to buy the ticket because it's gonna cost me more, which makes me a grumpy ass.

I remember this. The girls stayed on the West Coast, so it wasn't that expensive to visit or come home. But I don't think we ever flew my son home but for Christmas and at the end of the year. ("Enjoy your Spring Break in Montreal. I know it hasn't thawed out yet, but flying you home for a week is ridiculously expensive.")

My wife's separation issues with the girls was such that they flew home for Thanksgiving once or twice. I basically said fuck it that's enough. It's ridiculous for a 4 day vacation right before they're coming home for Christmas for a month +.

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

LebamDawg said:

All of the above?

Soon to be liquidating to see how poor I really am. The mrs. is set on a luxury travel abode that will serve as a home for a bit. I would go it cheaper...

What are your travel plans Lebam? Site seeing around the country? We'd like to do that. We are also planning to just check out and spend a year in Europe. It's actually a lot more doable than one would think if you manage your lodging the right way. Last time we were there, we stayed at a little villa in one of the less famous hill towns in Tuscany for like $700 / week. I spent about that much for two nights in Rome. We were central to everything, including Sienna, and Florence. In Paris, same thing. Rented an apartment. It wasn't cheap ... nothing in Paris is ... but it was a helluva lot cheaper than a hotel, and it allowed us to cook a lot, which really saves on $$.

My daughter's name is Siena. One of our favorite spots on our honeymoon trip (my only trip over the ocean). If you haven't been, though, do yourself a favor and check out Lucca. By FAR my favorite stop on that whole trip, and that came very unexpectedly. B&B with four poster bed, separate tub and shower, amazing breakfast, and nice central location for like $100 per night. Food was great, wasn't so touristy, town is really amazing.

Loved Siena. We had a great dinner there and showed up during one of the post-Palio parade celebrations by the winning neighborhood. The owner of the property we rented lived in an apartment in Siena - they were the Dolphin people. Anyway, she hooked us up all over Tuscany with you name it. She's great and we still exchange Christmas cards. I don't want that relationship to wither because I will be calling on her again.

Which leads to something that later on, when things open up, could be a really good and useful thread: knowing the property owner. Like many property owners of more than one property, ours was an aristocrat-like woman whose family owned a bunch of shit. She's originally from Rome. The property we stayed at is listed on all those middle-men sites under different names. I got it because a work colleague had stayed and had her e-mail address. The cheapest it goes for on any site I found was more than double what I paid, such is the commission for booking it. So at some point, those of us who like traveling there should exchange property owner names of places we've stayed that we liked because the property owner does not give a shit and if there is a personal connection you are in. Or pay double. Same with the apartment in Paris. I got that one through that Seattle agency, where the woman who is a Parisian just knows her shit and runs a booking business and knows all the people who own these many and varied properties in the city. I recommend her. Forget the name but will post it. But now, I know the old couple who owns the one we stayed at in the Marais and we agreed I'd go straight to them next time, which I will do because the apartment was a home fucking run.

It's not gonna work everywhere. At some point, you'll pay retail. But fuck, if you can nail down some 100% no disappointment properties for significant discounts and deal with the owner directly, why wouldn't you?

I have heard that about Lucca and it is def. on the next itinerary.

I had no idea that Palio existed until we got to Siena and found out that we were going to miss it by two days. The whole town was busy setting up for it, Il Campo was cleared out, etc. Left a $200 pair of sunglasses in the Duomo there...

Lucca was a surprise. We only stayed there because it was the home base of Ducati Tours. I had reserved a rental bike, and the plan was to stay the nights in Lucca and spend the days riding around Tuscany. When we got there, though, we found that three of their bikes had been impounded because a tour group did an illegal U-turn and their fourth bike had just been wrecked. They had no bike to give us, refunded our money, and it was like, "Well... guess we're stuck in Lucca for three days."

Ended up being great luck. So great, in fact, that my daughter would have a different name if the B&B at Siena, our next stop, were willing to cancel our reservation so we could stay in Lucca longer. Which ended up working out.

We landed in Nice and flew out of Venice. If I had to rank the places we stayed from best to worst, it would go:

1.) Lucca
2a.) Siena
2b.) Nice
4.) Cinque Terra (Riomaggiore, specifically)
...
...
...
81.) Venice

The middle three are close. Decent amount of distance between those three and the bookends.

Tell me about Venice. What didn’t you like besides the smell and expense? I haven’t been but want to go.

We went to Venice a couple of years ago and had a great time. I can definitely see the "smelly, expensive tourist-trap" angle. We did Venice differently than any other trip we've taken. We are not "tour group" people at all, but for Venice, we decided to try it. Started in Milan, guided tours, bus through Tuscany with several stops to wineries. We stayed on a river cruise boat docked in the lagoon, (in fact, the one that got hit by the runaway cruise ship while docked, about 6 months later).

While we were there, it was under water (my wife bought hip waders)...storm, super-tide, they had more water in the city than any time since '36. We got to see everything, including a late-night excursion to St. Mark's while it was closed because of flooding. We had trips every day, in the city and out. My wife researched it, and it checked all the boxes on what we wanted to see, and how we wanted to see it. Top-shelf food and booze. It was spendy, but we were going to do it once, and we did it right. Also, 3 days in Milan, 4 days in Florence at the beginning on our own.

Palio is like the running of the bulls only in Siena, and it's a horse race. One of those things that only happens in one place. Apparently Siena is a competitive place, and the 17 city districts used to settle who was tuffest once per year with a brawl in town square. Then it was bullfights. When bullfighting was outlawed, it turned to horse races. First modern Palio was in 1633, and they've been doing it twice per year (sometimes three on special occasions) ever since.

If you ever go to Siena, you want to be there during Palio, as every district has its own colors and banner, and EVERYONE is flying their colors. The streets toward the city center are all narrow, and it's awesome walking through the sea of colors:



Through some preliminary competitions that I'm not sure about, the 17 competing districts are whittled down to 10 that will compete in the race. Piazza del Campo, the central town square, is cleared out, covered in a thick layer of dirt, and mattresses and whatnot are put up around the outside to protect jockeys who fly off their horses (happens all the time, apparently). The race is bareback, three laps around the square, lasts about 90 seconds, and the jockey (being your district's jockey is a huge honor) who wins has to fight his way through an army of vagina for the rest of his life. It's tough.

Anyway, with the horses running around the outside of the square, the crowd actually packs into the middle. Or pays BIG dollars to sit in the balcony of one of the pubs or restaurants or whatnot around the square:



Upper right corner of that picture, there are three connected buildings. The one in the middle is a bit darker than the other two. In the lower two floors of that building is a pub. The very first thing we did when we got off the train (Rick Steves can suck my dong for recommending the trains, btw...) was walk all the way through town to that pub, sit on that balcony there with a Guinness, watch a whole bunch of construction activity, and wonder what the hell was going on and why there were banners hanging everywhere. We would have needed a to take out a second mortgage to sit in those same seats three days later.