Better NBA Player
Better NBA Player 12 votes
2 votes
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1 vote
Comments
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Bill RussellIt's either Russell or Magic. I never saw Russell play but 11 rings puts him at #2 all time for me. I love everything Magic could do though. I'd probably take Kareem over Wilt too, btw.
Mike
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Oscar
Kobe
Duncan
LeBron
I really have no idea where to rank LeBron right now. I feel like he ends up a lot higher on this list but if his career ended today I'm not sure I could put him ahead of anyone else listed. -
Bill RussellDown voted for having Kobe ahead of Lebron.
Lebron has more MVP's, higher PER, higher PPG, higher RPG, higher APG, better FG %, better 3 pt FG% too.
Kobe has him beat on rings but was robin for three of them. -
Bill Russell
I readily admit that Bron's a better player than Kobe, but IMO when evaluating the best of all time you're ranking careers not per game excellence. Longevity counts for a lot.He_Needs_More_Time said:Down voted for having Kobe ahead of Lebron.
Lebron has more MVP's, higher PER, higher PPG, higher RPG, higher APG, better FG %, better 3 pt FG% too.
Kobe has him beat on rings but was robin for three of them.
The case for Kobe:
Five more all star games
Four more all NBA teams
Seven more all NBA defensive teams
Four more rings
One more ring as the alpha dog
Kobe's three rings as best player came with worst supporting casts than LeBron's two rings as best player
If we're selecting the best guy at their peak I take LeBron. If we're selecting the guy with the best career I don't think it's that close right now, LeBron still needs at least two more excellent seasons to pass him IMO.
Love to see your top 10. -
Bill RussellKobe vs. LeBron is a very interesting argument.
DNC makes some good points.
I think Larry Bird made a very good distinction about the two when he said that LeBron would be more fun to play with but Kobe is who you'd want if you want to win championships. I don't think LeBron wants to be great or has the killer instinct like Kobe does.
Normally when they go head to head, Kobe has ended up making the bigger plays and in the 2008 Olympics was the defaulted go to player. Even in the 2012 Olympics, you could argue that LeBron took a back seat in those games to Kevin Durant. -
Bill Russell
When did Bird say this? I think it was definitely true at one point, but I think LBJ's developed more of a killer instinct the last few years.Tequilla said:Kobe vs. LeBron is a very interesting argument.
DNC makes some good points.
I think Larry Bird made a very good distinction about the two when he said that LeBron would be more fun to play with but Kobe is who you'd want if you want to win championships. I don't think LeBron wants to be great or has the killer instinct like Kobe does.
Normally when they go head to head, Kobe has ended up making the bigger plays and in the 2008 Olympics was the defaulted go to player. Even in the 2012 Olympics, you could argue that LeBron took a back seat in those games to Kevin Durant.
OTOH, you never would have won a game after blowing in Kobe's ear. I'd rather have peak Kobe if I had to win one game though even though Lebron's a better player.
I don't think it's a knock on Lebron to say he doesn't have Kobe's killer instinct though. Kobe is probably the second most competitive player to ever play the game.
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Bill RussellBird said that when Lebron had zero titles for the record.
So DNC why have Bird so high? He's only played like 65 more career games than Lebron. -
Bill RussellTequilla, you realize that Lebron took control of that gold medal game in 2012?
Kobe gets the better of him? Lebron has a commanding HTH W-L advantage over Kobe and Durant.
Please stop spewing bullshit with no facts behind them. -
Bill RussellMichael Jordan
Robert Swift
Manut Bol
Kwame Brown
Jason Collins
Scott Brooks
Lebron James
Nick Van Exel
Greg Oden -
Bill Russell
Are you trying to say that Bird didn't respect LeBron at that point given that he said that he was the best player in the game right now and that it wasn't even close?He_Needs_More_Time said:Bird said that when Lebron had zero titles for the record.
So DNC why have Bird so high? He's only played like 65 more career games than Lebron.
Why is Bird valued so high? Beginning in his first year of '79-'80, Bird's teams reached at minimum the conference finals in 8 of his first 9 years in the league.
A common "discrediting" I've heard of Bird was that he played for Boston, played with all of these great players, and that he more or less walked into success. Not so. They won a title in '75-'76. The next year they won 44 games. In '77-'78, the Celtics won 32 games. In '78-'79, they won 29 games.
And if you look at the list of players in the East that he had to go through to get deep into the playoffs every year? It's a who's who list of players to have ever played the game. The Eastern Conference in the 80s was far and away the more difficult of the two conferences. -
Kobe only had 2 rings as the best player. One of those times they beat the Magic. There was basically no challenge whatsoever. One of the easiest titles a star ever won. And in the 2010 NBA Finals, Kobe shot 40% including a horrid game 7. Gasol was the reason they won that series, not Kobe.
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Bill Russell
Does Bill Simmons know you've turned your back on him?He_Needs_More_Time said:Bird said that when Lebron had zero titles for the record.
So DNC why have Bird so high? He's only played like 65 more career games than Lebron.
Here we go, the case for Bird:
12 time all star, best player on arguably the second greatest team of all time, 3 rings, two time member of 50-40-90 club, 9 time first team All NBA (Lebron has 7), best white guy ever, etc.
Still waiting for you to nut up and poast your own rankings. -
Bill Russell
I don't disagree about him only having 2 as the best player on the team, but I find it really weird how people love to shoot down what Kobe has done. 5 titles is still 5 titles. People need to stop treating him like he was Robert Horry.HeretoBeatmyChest said:Kobe only had 2 rings as the best player. One of those times they beat the Magic. There was basically no challenge whatsoever. One of the easiest titles a star ever won. And in the 2010 NBA Finals, Kobe shot 40% including a horrid game 7. Gasol was the reason they won that series, not Kobe.
Obviously most of this is fueled by the whole Lebron v Kobe debate which to me is just as fucking stupid. Lebron fans need to stop comparing everything Lebron does to Kobe if they are going to start making MJ comparisons... it just doesn't make any sense esp now with Bryant out of his prime. -
Nice list, but you have to fit in Greg Ostertag somewhere. Great shot blocker and was a real lunch pail kind of guy.CuntWaffle said:Michael Jordan
Robert Swift
Manut Bol
Kwame Brown
Jason Collins
Scott Brooks
Lebron James
Nick Van Exel
Greg Oden -
Bill RussellCorrected list:
Michael Jordan
Adam Morrison
Robert Swift
Manut Bol
Kwame Brown
Jason Collins
Scott Brooks
Lebron James
Nick Van Exel
Greg Ostertag
Greg Oden
Bryant Reeves
Kevin Durant
Cal -
Bill Russell
Ostertag and Wally Szczerbiak were tough ones to cut out from the group.RoadDawg55 said:
Nice list, but you have to fit in Greg Ostertag somewhere. Great shot blocker and was a real lunch pail kind of guy.CuntWaffle said:Michael Jordan
Robert Swift
Manut Bol
Kwame Brown
Jason Collins
Scott Brooks
Lebron James
Nick Van Exel
Greg Oden -
Bill RussellTierbsHsotBoobs said:
Corrected list:
Michael Jordan
Adam Morrison
Robert Swift
Manut Bol
Kwame Brown
Jason Collins
Scott Brooks
Lebron James
Nick Van Exel
Greg Ostertag
Greg Oden
Bryant Reeves
Kevin Durant
Cal
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Bill Russell
FTFY. Also Cal is to highTierbsHsotBoobs said:Corrected list:
Michael Jordan
Adam Morrison
Robert Swift
Manut Bol
Kwame Brown
Jason Collins
Ben Ossai
Scott Brooks
Lebron James
Nick Van Exel
Greg Ostertag
Greg Oden
Bryant Reeves
Cal
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Bill Russell
Already gave my top 10 in another thread.dnc said:
I readily admit that Bron's a better player than Kobe, but IMO when evaluating the best of all time you're ranking careers not per game excellence. Longevity counts for a lot.He_Needs_More_Time said:Down voted for having Kobe ahead of Lebron.
Lebron has more MVP's, higher PER, higher PPG, higher RPG, higher APG, better FG %, better 3 pt FG% too.
Kobe has him beat on rings but was robin for three of them.
The case for Kobe:
Five more all star games
Four more all NBA teams
Seven more all NBA defensive teams
Four more rings
One more ring as the alpha dog
Kobe's three rings as best player came with worst supporting casts than LeBron's two rings as best player
If we're selecting the best guy at their peak I take LeBron. If we're selecting the guy with the best career I don't think it's that close right now, LeBron still needs at least two more excellent seasons to pass him IMO.
Love to see your top 10.
Also do you not know how to count ? Kobe won two rings only as the alpha dog(same as Lebron) and has 5 rings. Lebron has led his team to the Finals as an alpha dog 5 times while Kobe has just 3.
BTW, if you want to talk longevity then why is Magic or Bird so high?
Lebron has played 11 seasons, 842 games, 153 playoff games and counting.
Magic played 12 full seasons, 906 games, 190 playoff games
Bird played 13 full seasons(one year he only played 6 games so really only 12 seasons), 897 games, 164 playoff games.
Bill Russell played 13 full seasons, 963 games, 165 playoff games
Michael Jordan played 15 seasons(really only 12 as 2 were with Wizards then that half year) played 1072 games, 179 playoff games.
Just find it weird you use Lebron's lack of time in the game against him when he's not that far off seasons wise or games played to your top four. -
Bill Russell
Chest already poonted out my lack of counting skills. No idea how I whiffed on Kobe's rings, no excuse there.He_Needs_More_Time said:
Already gave my top 10 in another thread.dnc said:
I readily admit that Bron's a better player than Kobe, but IMO when evaluating the best of all time you're ranking careers not per game excellence. Longevity counts for a lot.He_Needs_More_Time said:Down voted for having Kobe ahead of Lebron.
Lebron has more MVP's, higher PER, higher PPG, higher RPG, higher APG, better FG %, better 3 pt FG% too.
Kobe has him beat on rings but was robin for three of them.
The case for Kobe:
Five more all star games
Four more all NBA teams
Seven more all NBA defensive teams
Four more rings
One more ring as the alpha dog
Kobe's three rings as best player came with worst supporting casts than LeBron's two rings as best player
If we're selecting the best guy at their peak I take LeBron. If we're selecting the guy with the best career I don't think it's that close right now, LeBron still needs at least two more excellent seasons to pass him IMO.
Love to see your top 10.
Also do you not know how to count ? Kobe won two rings only as the alpha dog(same as Lebron) and has 5 rings. Lebron has led his team to the Finals as an alpha dog 5 times while Kobe has just 3.
BTW, if you want to talk longevity then why is Magic or Bird so high?
Lebron has played 11 seasons, 842 games, 153 playoff games and counting.
Magic played 12 full seasons, 906 games, 190 playoff games
Bird played 13 full seasons(one year he only played 6 games so really only 12 seasons), 897 games, 164 playoff games.
Bill Russell played 13 full seasons, 963 games, 165 playoff games
Michael Jordan played 15 seasons(really only 12 as 2 were with Wizards then that half year) played 1072 games, 179 playoff games.
Just find it weird you use Lebron's lack of time in the game against him when he's not that far off seasons wise or games played to your top four.
Magic won 5 rings. There's no way he's not ahead of Lebron. You even have him ahead of Lebron yourself.
Russell won 11 rings. He could have played just 11 seasons and he'd be forever ahead of Lebron based on that alone.
Bird I already analyzed the difference.
"Just find it weird you use Lebron's lack of time in the game against him when he's not that far off seasons wise or games played to your top four."
These are the greatest players of all time, in many ways it's going to be a matter of degree. A couple of seasons matters. Like I said, Bron's probably two excellent seasons away from passing some of these guys up. When it comes to the Kobe comparison specifically I think 15 All NBAs and the second most points scored of all time carries more value than Lebrons 9 and higher per game production. You disagree, which is fine. Ultimately I will almost assuredly have Lebron ahead of Kobe. I don't think his career has been better yet.
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Bill RussellI'm not disagreeing with you having those four ahead of Lebron just found it weird you used Lebron's lack of a career against him when those four didn't have much of a career either is all.
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Bill Russell
Maybe I approached it wrong. It's not so much Lebron's lack of a career as it is Kobe's longevity. Presumably Lebron will have similar longevity since he also came straight out of HS. But at this point Kobe has 6 more excellent seasons than LBJ does, which counts a lot for me.He_Needs_More_Time said:I'm not disagreeing with you having those four ahead of Lebron just found it weird you used Lebron's lack of a career against him when those four didn't have much of a career either is all.
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Bill RussellKobe's longevity is interesting in all this.
Bill Simmons has never said Kobe is better than MJ but when he asks if you are GM whose career would you rather have MJ or Kobe's? It's a good question.
Basically with MJ you only got 12 seasons. Now of those 12 seasons about 9 of them were GOAT status. With Kobe you do get more years.
MJ as crazy as this sounds should have done more. You gotta figure he was in the prime of his career and walked away to play baseball for two of those years(1995 comeback never happened).
Could you imagine if the Heat win a title Lebron just exits the game for a year and a half? Just the thought of that seems unthinkable. -
Bill RussellThat would be hard to say. They're each outstanding in their own way.
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Bill Russell
Right inn:Tequilla said:"Scientific" poll for some other people ... field isn't an option as a result (hardy har har
Larry Bird. -
Greg Ostertag or Bill Wennington? I'll go with Wennington because of his three rings. Their battles in the NBA Finals in 97 and 98 were legendary. These guys were really bringing it in the post. Ostertag was a stronger post defender and shot blocker, but Wennington could hit a 15 footer if you left him open. He really spaced the floor for Jordan and Pippen to do their thing.
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Duncan is not behind Kobe. I love Kobe more than any other athlete but it's Duncan and it's starting to get not even close.dnc said:It's either Russell or Magic. I never saw Russell play but 11 rings puts him at #2 all time for me. I love everything Magic could do though. I'd probably take Kareem over Wilt too, btw.
Mike
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Oscar
Kobe
Duncan
LeBron
I really have no idea where to rank LeBron right now. I feel like he ends up a lot higher on this list but if his career ended today I'm not sure I could put him ahead of anyone else listed. -
Bill Russell
Interesting. How high do you put Duncan? Not sure I agree but I think there's definitely a case for Duncan.allpurpleallgold said:
Duncan is not behind Kobe. I love Kobe more than any other athlete but it's Duncan and it's starting to get not even close.dnc said:It's either Russell or Magic. I never saw Russell play but 11 rings puts him at #2 all time for me. I love everything Magic could do though. I'd probably take Kareem over Wilt too, btw.
Mike
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Oscar
Kobe
Duncan
LeBron
I really have no idea where to rank LeBron right now. I feel like he ends up a lot higher on this list but if his career ended today I'm not sure I could put him ahead of anyone else listed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecS0D-Vxh8Y
