Swaye?? True??

Don't forget ... Race was there!

RaceBannon said:

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

Disagree

Jackson made decisions that fucked us for a century at least in our relations with the Swayes. He took the wrong side. The donor side

I like him as a General. Hate him as a President

Disagree. Almost all of human history is one of the stronger tribe fucking over the weaker one and taking their land. It's only a fairly recent construct that most humans think this is wrong. White devil desire for land, gold, etc was gonna fuck the Swayes regardless of Jackson. Watch Deadwood for the 6th time. We had a contract!! Still didn't stop Sweargin from going into the Black Hills.

The Cherokee went white. Bought farms and followed the rules. It was a blueprint for the future

Jackson fucked all that up

From that point forward it was over

You're cherry picking one tribe. What Jackson did was horrible. But this isn't proof that the Comanches, Apaches, Sioux, were going to go white. The Nomadic Swayes were completely different than the Eastern Swayes, many of whom were already farmers before Columbus came dancing across the water in the Nina, The Pinta and the Santa Maria. If @Swaye was nomadic injun instead of farmer injun it would still be coke and stripper most likely.

I'm showing how it could have worked

No one was going to trust whitey after that

Jackson set the stage for a bloody conclusion

With the express qualification that I don't know, or care, whatever the fuck it is you guysms are arguing about - worst presidents I guess - I had a case when I was a judicial law clerk involving a state court's in rem jurisdiction over a parcel on an Injun (hey @Swaye) rez here in Warshington. This wasn't just any parcel. It was a piece of land that had been put into federal trust (a mechanism called a fee patent) by which Injun land could become privately owned land by Ten Bears and his nephews ... or whatever. When the fee patent was issued, pretty much anything having to do with that land was as Amurican and subject to all the usual goodies and bullshit as a block in mid-town Manhattan. In other words, it was like hole in the map of the rez ... that hole was 'non-rez', if you will.

Anywhoo, there were all kinds of problems with these various mechanisms, not least of which (true stories) was that whitey was really fucking good at talking Ten Bears and his nephews out of 100s of acres of valuable land for a car and a box of cigars. @Swaye's people got so fucking swindled it was ridicruous. Sooooo, the fed decided to baby sit, then decided it was a bad idea, then decided it was a good idea, and back and forth and forth and back, for years.

The layers of federal legislation on "what to do with these? people" was as helter skelter as anything Congress has done. The result is a huge pile of fucked and tangled up property rights.

The point of this particular story tim with Creepy is this: we have fucked these people as hard as you can fuck anything. We wanted to assimilate and disband tribal associations. Then we thought, nah, it was better before, and tried to unwind the other plan (which is especially hard when you create new property rights). Then we'd change our minds again, and try to disband, and then change them again. Over and over. What a fucking mess.

I'm all for the idea that the fate of the conquered is whatever the conqueror decides. But we really fucked around with these people and never made up our minds what we wanted to do. Which explains a lot for why conditions on the rez today are what they are. For most of our tim together, Injuns have been neither real Americans nor real Injuns. We've left them in a state of limbo.

I cry for @Swaye.

Now, back to Trump.