The Art of Breaking the Deal

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

They weren't violating the Treaty when they first signed it with Reagan. They are violating it now and have been in violation for many, many years. Obama ignored it, just like he ignored Russian hacking. There isn't much point in signing off on a treaty when only one side is living up to the restrictions set-forth in the treaty. Good to see you run interference for Putin. Btw, what happened to your lie that your complaint isn't about this one particular treaty? That bullshit sure didn't last long because now you are talking about this one particular treaty.

last week Russia didn't hack anything. Now they did. Interesting.

When did I ever say Russian didn't hack anything in the US you lying piece of crap? Not interesting, in fact boringly predictable that you come here and just lie.

https://hardcorehusky.com/discussion/60971/did-67-of-the-gop-think-that-pizzagate-was-real#latest

Shocking the pathological liar, lies. Trolling me again with your fucking stupidity Hondo?

Ok Bob. If Russia didn't hack to change vote totals. And you've been obsessive that Russia didn't hack the DNC and meet with Trump about it. What exactly did Russia hack for the election then that Obama should have stopped?

Fuck you Hondo. Lying piece of shit.

SFGbob said:

They weren't violating the Treaty when they first signed it with Reagan. They are violating it now and have been in violation for many, many years. Obama ignored it, just like he ignored Russian hacking. There isn't much point in signing off on a treaty when only one side is living up to the restrictions set-forth in the treaty. Good to see you run interference for Putin. Btw, what happened to your lie that your complaint isn't about this one particular treaty? That bullshit sure didn't last long because now you are talking about this one particular treaty.

Obama didn't ignore it.

INF was important when it was signed, more for feel-good reasons than actual strategic reasons, but it was good to be talking and GRIT-ing with the Sovs. Back then they had conventional superiority in Europe, now NATO does. Back then the Chinese (and Indians and Pakis etc.) didn't have IRBM or GLCM capabilities; now they do. SLCMs and ALCMs were never part of the INF Treaty, so of course both they and we developed and deployed such systems (parties to arms treaties just about always want to rein in their opponents and leave themselves a free hand to get around the restrictions - see Washington Naval Teaty of 1922 and both SALT I and II). Plus, with the US' withdrawal from the ABM Treaty and subsequent developments in defensive systems, the Russians understandably want every option to overwhelm a defensive system; these treaties worked together, so when one goes, the others are more likely to unravel.

INF restrictions just don't mean nearly as much now as it used to, and like CFE, probably needed to go or at least be renegotiated.

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

2001400ex said:

SFGbob said:

They weren't violating the Treaty when they first signed it with Reagan. They are violating it now and have been in violation for many, many years. Obama ignored it, just like he ignored Russian hacking. There isn't much point in signing off on a treaty when only one side is living up to the restrictions set-forth in the treaty. Good to see you run interference for Putin. Btw, what happened to your lie that your complaint isn't about this one particular treaty? That bullshit sure didn't last long because now you are talking about this one particular treaty.

last week Russia didn't hack anything. Now they did. Interesting.

When did I ever say Russian didn't hack anything in the US you lying piece of crap? Not interesting, in fact boringly predictable that you come here and just lie.

https://hardcorehusky.com/discussion/60971/did-67-of-the-gop-think-that-pizzagate-was-real#latest

Shocking the pathological liar, lies. Trolling me again with your fucking stupidity Hondo?

Ok Bob. If Russia didn't hack to change vote totals. And you've been obsessive that Russia didn't hack the DNC and meet with Trump about it. What exactly did Russia hack for the election then that Obama should have stopped?

Fuck you Hondo. Lying piece of shit.

Bob hates being exposed as a liar.

So it's a "lie" to say that Russian hacking didn't alter the vote totals in the 2016 election Hondo? The only liar as always Hondo is you. I didn't say the Russian never hacked anything in the US are your link doesn't support your claim that I did.

SFGbob said:

BearsWiin said:

SFGbob said:

They weren't violating the Treaty when they first signed it with Reagan. They are violating it now and have been in violation for many, many years. Obama ignored it, just like he ignored Russian hacking. There isn't much point in signing off on a treaty when only one side is living up to the restrictions set-forth in the treaty. Good to see you run interference for Putin. Btw, what happened to your lie that your complaint isn't about this one particular treaty? That bullshit sure didn't last long because now you are talking about this one particular treaty.

Obama didn't ignore it.

INF was important when it was signed, more for feel-good reasons than actual strategic reasons, but it was good to be talking and GRIT-ing with the Sovs. Back then they had conventional superiority in Europe, now NATO does. Back then the Chinese (and Indians and Pakis etc.) didn't have IRBM or GLCM capabilities; now they do. SLCMs and ALCMs were never part of the INF Treaty, so of course both they and we developed and deployed such systems (parties to arms treaties just about always want to rein in their opponents and leave themselves a free hand to get around the restrictions - see Washington Naval Teaty of 1922 and both SALT I and II). Plus, with the US' withdrawal from the ABM Treaty and subsequent developments in defensive systems, the Russians understandably want every option to overwhelm a defensive system; these treaties worked together, so when one goes, the others are more likely to unravel.

INF restrictions just don't mean nearly as much now as it used to, and like CFE, probably needed to go or at least be renegotiated.

Yes, yes. Obama didn't ignore the fact that the Russians were in violation of the Treaty he just didn't do anything in response to those violations. But he didn't "ignore" it.

State had many discussions with the Russians about their violation of INF. Of course we could have sanctioned the Russians over their violation, but the Obama Administration decided to prioritize making sure that the more important and timely New START wasn't threatened. You can disagree with their decisions; that's fair game. But saying that they ignored it is just HondoFS. The view is better when you take off your partisan blinders

BearsWiin said:

SFGbob said:

BearsWiin said:

SFGbob said:

They weren't violating the Treaty when they first signed it with Reagan. They are violating it now and have been in violation for many, many years. Obama ignored it, just like he ignored Russian hacking. There isn't much point in signing off on a treaty when only one side is living up to the restrictions set-forth in the treaty. Good to see you run interference for Putin. Btw, what happened to your lie that your complaint isn't about this one particular treaty? That bullshit sure didn't last long because now you are talking about this one particular treaty.

Obama didn't ignore it.

INF was important when it was signed, more for feel-good reasons than actual strategic reasons, but it was good to be talking and GRIT-ing with the Sovs. Back then they had conventional superiority in Europe, now NATO does. Back then the Chinese (and Indians and Pakis etc.) didn't have IRBM or GLCM capabilities; now they do. SLCMs and ALCMs were never part of the INF Treaty, so of course both they and we developed and deployed such systems (parties to arms treaties just about always want to rein in their opponents and leave themselves a free hand to get around the restrictions - see Washington Naval Teaty of 1922 and both SALT I and II). Plus, with the US' withdrawal from the ABM Treaty and subsequent developments in defensive systems, the Russians understandably want every option to overwhelm a defensive system; these treaties worked together, so when one goes, the others are more likely to unravel.

INF restrictions just don't mean nearly as much now as it used to, and like CFE, probably needed to go or at least be renegotiated.

Yes, yes. Obama didn't ignore the fact that the Russians were in violation of the Treaty he just didn't do anything in response to those violations. But he didn't "ignore" it.

State had many discussions with the Russians about their violation of INF. Of course we could have sanctioned the Russians over their violation, but the Obama Administration decided to prioritize making sure that the more important and timely New START wasn't threatened. You can disagree with their decisions; that's fair game. But saying that they ignored it is just HondoFS. The view is better when you take off your partisan blinders

Great, he paid attention to it and did nothing. Uuuuuh, they had "discussions." How brave.