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The Trouble With "Renewables"
UW_Doog_Bot
Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 18,040 
in Tug Tavern
Good video, if you don't watch it then you aren't serious about climate change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cm7HOAqZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cm7HOAqZY Comments
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The climate has always changed.
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Edibles > Renewables
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I actually wanted to watch it.
But I'm not serious about climate change, so I can't. -
So you didn't watch and you don't care. Got it.allpurpleallgold said:The climate has always changed.
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I've kayaked on Elkhorn Slough right next to that Moss Landing power plant
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Holy shit you mean it gets dark and the wind don't blow?
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That late breaking story is unavailable for the true green gaia religionists.
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Maff and physics are hard for greens.
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Good post @UW_Doog_Bot. California is a good microcosm of the larger renewable energy issue - the investment costs and land intensiveness of solar and wind power mean they are still not feasible to replace natural gas and nuclear energy. Their variability due to seasonality and weather only adds to the cost when battery storage becomes another necessity. As always, incremental progress as we continue to find more cost effective ways to replace natural gas and nuclear energy is the only realistic scenario.
Note that none of this touches upon the other very pressing energy issue of the world - transportation. Electric cars are nice, but no renewables are even close to properly substituting the fossil fuel consumption that comes from shipping and air travel. We have a long ways to go. -
It's all conservatives fault for wanting electricity when it gets dark.
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This is my major problem with most "environmentalists". There's very little past the emotional pandering rhetoric. Once you actually want to have a discussion around any of the policy details or how to actually execute a "greener" energy policy they've got very little to bring to the table. It's all just pie in the sky demands with no path to reality. The "Green New Deal" is laughably the best thing the majority has to advocate for.YellowSnow said:Maff and physics are hard for greens.
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Carbon has elevated the life of man to levels never dreamed of
We live better than kings
I applaud the OG environmental movement for prodding private energy to innovate cleaner methods. Our water and air really did suck and was getting worse. It cost a lot of money to clean up what we have. It didn't just happen
As is often the case to declare victory or progress cuts off the money train so we have gotten to some pretty extreme places of fantasy when it comes to energy
Products have to scale for mass use. They can't cause more problems than they solve. So far renewables fail both tests. There is no harm in continuing to explore them but fossil fuels are not our enemy.
The corruption of science is a big deal. -
I agree with you. Al Gore was a classic name caller and accuser of those who didn't play along with his dire predictions and demands for change. There was no constructive discussion, it was a belief we were all going to die in a decade or you were the enemy. Gore was a huge proponent of Ethanol. He put it right up there with wind and solar as a cure for the supposedly sick environment. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted and a increase in the carbon footprint associated with production and transportation increases and here we are.UW_Doog_Bot said:
This is my major problem with most "environmentalists". There's very little past the emotional pandering rhetoric. Once you actually want to have a discussion around any of the policy details or how to actually execute a "greener" energy policy they've got very little to bring to the table. It's all just pie in the sky demands with no path to reality. The "Green New Deal" is laughably the best thing the majority has to advocate for.YellowSnow said:Maff and physics are hard for greens.
I am all for alternative energy sources and making this place better (have you been to Los Angeles lately? The air pollution has come back with a vengeance) but threatening to put people in jail if they disagree with your dire predictions and methods for decreasing our footprint is ridiculous.
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The New Green Deal solves all of this guys. It's even endorsed by Hondo.
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Kind of. You know as a starting point for a SERIOUS discussion. Just a guideline reallyCuntWaffle said:The New Green Deal solves all of this guys. It's even endorsed by Hondo.
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The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
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Salmon killer!GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
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Sure, but it has an upper limit to how much we can install even IF you ignore all of the other environmental factors. Not every state is as abundant with rivers as Washington is.GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
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Every energy type has it's drawbacks and waste. With electric cars you have the batteries to dispose of. With Wind and Solar you have the huge land tracts that are needed and huge downtime. With LNG you have the delivery issues.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Sure, but it has an upper limit to how much we can install even IF you ignore all of the other environmental factors. Not every state is as abundant with rivers as Washington is.GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
And then you have the grand daddy of them all with Nuclear waste and potential meltdown due to earthquake or human error.
There's no clean energy. It's simply the lesser of the evils. -
How much do all those black super heated solar panels add to global warming. They get damn hot.salemcoog said:
Every energy type has it's drawbacks and waste. With electric cars you have the batteries to dispose of. With Wind and Solar you have the huge land tracts that are needed and huge downtime. With LNG you have the delivery issues.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Sure, but it has an upper limit to how much we can install even IF you ignore all of the other environmental factors. Not every state is as abundant with rivers as Washington is.GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
And then you have the grand daddy of them all with Nuclear waste and potential meltdown due to earthquake or human error.
There's no clean energy. It's simply the lesser of the evils.
Bird and insect murder another minus for wind and solar. -
No serious discussion about the future energy leaves out Nuclear. So they can fuck off.
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BleachedAnusDawg said:
Salmon killer!GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
Hate the gillnet, not the gillnetters.
(sorry, @swaye)
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Axe a Green New Dealers is hurricanes for more or less dangerous as a result of coal and the IR...RaceBannon said:Carbon has elevated the life of man to levels never dreamed of
We live better than kings
I applaud the OG environmental movement for prodding private energy to innovate cleaner methods. Our water and air really did suck and was getting worse. It cost a lot of money to clean up what we have. It didn't just happen
As is often the case to declare victory or progress cuts off the money train so we have gotten to some pretty extreme places of fantasy when it comes to energy
Products have to scale for mass use. They can't cause more problems than they solve. So far renewables fail both tests. There is no harm in continuing to explore them but fossil fuels are not our enemy.
The corruption of science is a big deal.
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years ago there was a special on TV about California trying solar power. Then they hired the energy company to use all that land to put mirrors that follow the sun and heat a reservoir (water tower). I obviously simplified this as much as possible because that was my turning poont for ignoring all this save the world by sustainable energy methods.
Just follow the money and see who have become millionaires/billionaires on tax dollars saving the world.
Good thing for me I am old and will have enuff energy around to burn my ass to cinders -
Huh?GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
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I’m surprised I’m surprisedBennyBeaver said:
Huh?GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
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The Ghost of Gill Dobie would like a word with you.PurpleThrobber said:BleachedAnusDawg said:
Salmon killer!GrundleStiltzkin said:The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.
Hate the gillnet, not the gillnetters.
(sorry, @swaye)
