Idea for prison reform

AtomicPiss

I heard a riveting interview on the PBD Podcast of Roger Reeves, who was a pilot smuggler for Escobar. His idea for prison reform is that we turn the prisons into a type of trade school. Not for lifers, but for those serving 5-10-15 years. The idea is that they get sent in to serve 10 years, but study a trade like plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc. Then upon release, they have a valuable skill with which to build a new life. I have a feeling the way the prison system is set up now it is probably making certain people tons of money just like the pharmaceutical industry. Nevertheless, I think it's an idea that should be seriously explored.

UW_Doog_Bot

Pretty sure these programs exist already

huskyhooligan

That was McNeil Island. Not much going on out there anymore.

theknowledge

This is probably a naive thought but parlay Dereks new work force into rebuilding infrastructure. Their criminal record probably hinders the ability for these ex cons to find work in many companies upon release so give them a couple years experience working on rebuilding our crumbling country through government work projects. Make sure they keep their noses clean, drug tests, counseling etc and then help them hook on with a private company after a couple years service to their country. The private companies then could get tax credits for taking on experienced but checkered labor. Thats a build back better that I could get behind.

WestlinnDuck

I think the real problem is that the people in jail are largely irredeemable. Most were raised as feral children with no adult supervision or real love. By the time you "raise" a child without love, they are broken by age 6 or earlier. Then a lot of them are heavily genetically disposed to alcoholism and drug addiction. Then a lot of them are dumber than mud. To make it in a trade, you need to be literate, be able to work independently and have some pretty good basic math skills and be able to have plans beyond getting phucked up. The people that worked on our home remodel were clean, hard working, honest, smart, competent and well paid.

I suppose you could run a strong triage program to pre-select only strong candidates for your trade program, but the left wouldn't like the selectees. They wouldn't like the demographics and the requirement that they know how to read and do basic math. Like all government programs, the point of the program isn't to get people to succeed to the best of their ability, it's to pretend that everyone can be a doctor or an astronaut.

The trade program would be great, if it started in middle school, with reading and basic math used to plan for material requirements, the ability to follow written directions and then the ability to do plumbing, electrical wiring, tile work and cabinetry and detailed woodwork, like door and window framing. Even painting requires math and the ability to do quality fine work. Our Costa Rican counter top guys are using computerized cutting for their quartz countertops and the Russian cabinet guy is also using computerized wood saws.

One of our old neighbors was an electrical engineer for one of the Portland chip makers. He was smart and yet dumber than a bag of hammers and literally one of the ugliest men I have ever seen. He was his wife's second husband. She once would have been moderately attractive but the extra 50 pounds and a tough life left her with the choice of getting married to a paycheck and then hanging at home and smoking cigarettes and drinking chardonnay or else? She had a 20 year old son from her previous marriage who got his girlfriend pregnant and had twins. He hardly ever saw them. No way he could pay child support unless his step dad did it. He didn't work and just hung out at their house and did absolutely nothing. So, Safeway went on strike and they were hiring anything that moved to replace the strikers. He got a job stocking groceries. He had a party at their house after day one to celebrate. Called in sick for day two and got fired. I think to "redeem" that kid, would have taken a whip and constant supervision. The likelihood of him turning into a self-starter would have been nil.

DerekJohnson said:

I heard a riveting interview on the PBD Podcast of Roger Reeves, who was a pilot smuggler for Escobar. His idea for prison reform is that we turn the prisons into a type of trade school. Not for lifers, but for those serving 5-10-15 years. The idea is that they get sent in to serve 10 years, but study a trade like plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc. Then upon release, they have a valuable skill with which to build a new life. I have a feeling the way the prison system is set up now it is probably making certain people tons of money just like the pharmaceutical industry. Nevertheless, I think it's an idea that should be seriously explored.

RoadTrip

WestlinnDuck said:

I think the real problem is that the people in jail are largely irredeemable. Most were raised as feral children with no adult supervision or real love. By the time you "raise" a child without love, they are broken by age 6 or earlier. Then a lot of them are heavily genetically disposed to alcoholism and drug addiction. Then a lot of them are dumber than mud. To make it in a trade, you need to be literate, be able to work independently and have some pretty good basic math skills and be able to have plans beyond getting phucked up. The people that worked on our home remodel were clean, hard working, honest, smart, competent and well paid.

I suppose you could run a strong triage program to pre-select only strong candidates for your trade program, but the left wouldn't like the selectees. They wouldn't like the demographics and the requirement that they know how to read and do basic math. Like all government programs, the point of the program isn't to get people to succeed to the best of their ability, it's to pretend that everyone can be a doctor or an astronaut.

The trade program would be great, if it started in middle school, with reading and basic math used to plan for material requirements, the ability to follow written directions and then the ability to do plumbing, electrical wiring, tile work and cabinetry and detailed woodwork, like door and window framing. Even painting requires math and the ability to do quality fine work. Our Costa Rican counter top guys are using computerized cutting for their quartz countertops and the Russian cabinet guy is also using computerized wood saws.

One of our old neighbors was an electrical engineer for one of the Portland chip makers. He was smart and yet dumber than a bag of hammers and literally one of the ugliest men I have ever seen. He was his wife's second husband. She once would have been moderately attractive but the extra 50 pounds and a tough life left her with the choice of getting married to a paycheck and then hanging at home and smoking cigarettes and drinking chardonnay or else? She had a 20 year old son from her previous marriage who got his girlfriend pregnant and had twins. He hardly ever saw them. No way he could pay child support unless his step dad did it. He didn't work and just hung out at their house and did absolutely nothing. So, Safeway went on strike and they were hiring anything that moved to replace the strikers. He got a job stocking groceries. He had a party at their house after day one to celebrate. Called in sick for day two and got fired. I think to "redeem" that kid, would have taken a whip and constant supervision. The likelihood of him turning into a self-starter would have been nil.

DerekJohnson said:

I heard a riveting interview on the PBD Podcast of Roger Reeves, who was a pilot smuggler for Escobar. His idea for prison reform is that we turn the prisons into a type of trade school. Not for lifers, but for those serving 5-10-15 years. The idea is that they get sent in to serve 10 years, but study a trade like plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc. Then upon release, they have a valuable skill with which to build a new life. I have a feeling the way the prison system is set up now it is probably making certain people tons of money just like the pharmaceutical industry. Nevertheless, I think it's an idea that should be seriously explored.

Sad and most-likely accurate. Also, we? don't have the billions to throw at a program like this when as you say a program of this nature should be directed to young people who need an alternative to college. Good to great money can be made in the trades.

WestlinnDuck

Hell, prior to the left's destruction of the American economy and the energy sector, trucker's were making six figures in east Texas.

RoadTrip said:

WestlinnDuck said:

I think the real problem is that the people in jail are largely irredeemable. Most were raised as feral children with no adult supervision or real love. By the time you "raise" a child without love, they are broken by age 6 or earlier. Then a lot of them are heavily genetically disposed to alcoholism and drug addiction. Then a lot of them are dumber than mud. To make it in a trade, you need to be literate, be able to work independently and have some pretty good basic math skills and be able to have plans beyond getting phucked up. The people that worked on our home remodel were clean, hard working, honest, smart, competent and well paid.

I suppose you could run a strong triage program to pre-select only strong candidates for your trade program, but the left wouldn't like the selectees. They wouldn't like the demographics and the requirement that they know how to read and do basic math. Like all government programs, the point of the program isn't to get people to succeed to the best of their ability, it's to pretend that everyone can be a doctor or an astronaut.

The trade program would be great, if it started in middle school, with reading and basic math used to plan for material requirements, the ability to follow written directions and then the ability to do plumbing, electrical wiring, tile work and cabinetry and detailed woodwork, like door and window framing. Even painting requires math and the ability to do quality fine work. Our Costa Rican counter top guys are using computerized cutting for their quartz countertops and the Russian cabinet guy is also using computerized wood saws.

One of our old neighbors was an electrical engineer for one of the Portland chip makers. He was smart and yet dumber than a bag of hammers and literally one of the ugliest men I have ever seen. He was his wife's second husband. She once would have been moderately attractive but the extra 50 pounds and a tough life left her with the choice of getting married to a paycheck and then hanging at home and smoking cigarettes and drinking chardonnay or else? She had a 20 year old son from her previous marriage who got his girlfriend pregnant and had twins. He hardly ever saw them. No way he could pay child support unless his step dad did it. He didn't work and just hung out at their house and did absolutely nothing. So, Safeway went on strike and they were hiring anything that moved to replace the strikers. He got a job stocking groceries. He had a party at their house after day one to celebrate. Called in sick for day two and got fired. I think to "redeem" that kid, would have taken a whip and constant supervision. The likelihood of him turning into a self-starter would have been nil.

DerekJohnson said:

I heard a riveting interview on the PBD Podcast of Roger Reeves, who was a pilot smuggler for Escobar. His idea for prison reform is that we turn the prisons into a type of trade school. Not for lifers, but for those serving 5-10-15 years. The idea is that they get sent in to serve 10 years, but study a trade like plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc. Then upon release, they have a valuable skill with which to build a new life. I have a feeling the way the prison system is set up now it is probably making certain people tons of money just like the pharmaceutical industry. Nevertheless, I think it's an idea that should be seriously explored.

Sad and most-likely accurate. Also, we? don't have the billions to throw at a program like this when as you say a program of this nature should be directed to young people who need an alternative to college. Good to great money can be made in the trades.

Sledog

They already have school, training etc. Some use it. Most do not. Drugs are the main driver of crime. Ask me how I know. Ever been inside a prison or county jail? Broken families are indeed the cause of this disaster. It results from liberal policies punishing welfare recipients for being married. Rewarding them for having more children etc. That has contributed to the rise in out of wedlock births and fatherless homes. Lots of factors but look at when that was instituted and the rise in crime stats.

You lock violent felons up. You lock repeat offenders up. Crimes start small and grow with criminals. Three strikes laws were hugely successful so democrats repealed them. Leniency in early crimes doesn't help it hurts. If you pay people more than minimum wage with welfare, section 8 etc. they have zero incentive to work and support themselves, children and family. I've dealt with many bad families from top to bottom. Quite common really. They cost more outside than inside jail.

WestlinnDuck

Toss in food stamps, obama phones and medicaid and you have food, housing, communication, and medical care. Or you could work for $15 an hour and have basically the same thing. Oh, and open borders to take advantage of America as the world's welfare magnet. In March of 2020 we were in great shape and moving forward. Now, we are an economic and moral mess, but no mean tweets. Fair trade?

Sledog said:

They already have school, training etc. Some use it. Most do not. Drugs are the main driver of crime. Ask me how I know. Ever been inside a prison or county jail? Broken families are indeed the cause of this disaster. It results from liberal policies punishing welfare recipients for being married. Rewarding them for having more children etc. That has contributed to the rise in out of wedlock births and fatherless homes. Lots of factors but look at when that was instituted and the rise in crime stats.

You lock violent felons up. You lock repeat offenders up. Crimes start small and grow with criminals. Three strikes laws were hugely successful so democrats repealed them. Leniency in early crimes doesn't help it hurts. If you pay people more than minimum wage with welfare, section 8 etc. they have zero incentive to work and support themselves, children and family. I've dealt with many bad families from top to bottom. Quite common really. They cost more outside than inside jail.

MikeDamone

Sledog said:

They already have school, training etc. Some use it. Most do not. Drugs are the main driver of crime. Ask me how I know. Ever been inside a prison or county jail? Broken families are indeed the cause of this disaster. It results from liberal policies punishing welfare recipients for being married. Rewarding them for having more children etc. That has contributed to the rise in out of wedlock births and fatherless homes. Lots of factors but look at when that was instituted and the rise in crime stats.

You lock violent felons up. You lock repeat offenders up. Crimes start small and grow with criminals. Three strikes laws were hugely successful so democrats repealed them. Leniency in early crimes doesn't help it hurts. If you pay people more than minimum wage with welfare, section 8 etc. they have zero incentive to work and support themselves, children and family. I've dealt with many bad families from top to bottom. Quite common really. They cost more outside than inside jail.

Anyone else remember when I suggested educating kids on the long term consequences of single parenthood, Drug use and committing crimes and Hondo went nuts saying I wanted to indoctrinate kids?

JFC he was a moron

BleachedAnusDawg

My suggestion is to start castration and cutting off hands, etc.

TurdBomber

A Stalin that doesn't support mass incarceration of his political enemies is not a Stalin I recognize.

Besides, dims like cheap prison labor for their benefactors.

greenblood

The left finds that degrading

Pitchfork51

theknowledge said:

This is probably a naive thought but parlay Dereks new work force into rebuilding infrastructure. Their criminal record probably hinders the ability for these ex cons to find work in many companies upon release so give them a couple years experience working on rebuilding our crumbling country through government work projects. Make sure they keep their noses clean, drug tests, counseling etc and then help them hook on with a private company after a couple years service to their country. The private companies then could get tax credits for taking on experienced but checkered labor. Thats a build back better that I could get behind.

Sounds like you want slavery bigot

theknowledge

Pitchfork51 said:

theknowledge said:

This is probably a naive thought but parlay Dereks new work force into rebuilding infrastructure. Their criminal record probably hinders the ability for these ex cons to find work in many companies upon release so give them a couple years experience working on rebuilding our crumbling country through government work projects. Make sure they keep their noses clean, drug tests, counseling etc and then help them hook on with a private company after a couple years service to their country. The private companies then could get tax credits for taking on experienced but checkered labor. Thats a build back better that I could get behind.

Sounds like you want slavery bigot

I chortled.

Pitchfork51

WestlinnDuck said:

I think the real problem is that the people in jail are largely irredeemable. Most were raised as feral children with no adult supervision or real love. By the time you "raise" a child without love, they are broken by age 6 or earlier. Then a lot of them are heavily genetically disposed to alcoholism and drug addiction. Then a lot of them are dumber than mud. To make it in a trade, you need to be literate, be able to work independently and have some pretty good basic math skills and be able to have plans beyond getting phucked up. The people that worked on our home remodel were clean, hard working, honest, smart, competent and well paid.

I suppose you could run a strong triage program to pre-select only strong candidates for your trade program, but the left wouldn't like the selectees. They wouldn't like the demographics and the requirement that they know how to read and do basic math. Like all government programs, the point of the program isn't to get people to succeed to the best of their ability, it's to pretend that everyone can be a doctor or an astronaut.

The trade program would be great, if it started in middle school, with reading and basic math used to plan for material requirements, the ability to follow written directions and then the ability to do plumbing, electrical wiring, tile work and cabinetry and detailed woodwork, like door and window framing. Even painting requires math and the ability to do quality fine work. Our Costa Rican counter top guys are using computerized cutting for their quartz countertops and the Russian cabinet guy is also using computerized wood saws.

One of our old neighbors was an electrical engineer for one of the Portland chip makers. He was smart and yet dumber than a bag of hammers and literally one of the ugliest men I have ever seen. He was his wife's second husband. She once would have been moderately attractive but the extra 50 pounds and a tough life left her with the choice of getting married to a paycheck and then hanging at home and smoking cigarettes and drinking chardonnay or else? She had a 20 year old son from her previous marriage who got his girlfriend pregnant and had twins. He hardly ever saw them. No way he could pay child support unless his step dad did it. He didn't work and just hung out at their house and did absolutely nothing. So, Safeway went on strike and they were hiring anything that moved to replace the strikers. He got a job stocking groceries. He had a party at their house after day one to celebrate. Called in sick for day two and got fired. I think to "redeem" that kid, would have taken a whip and constant supervision. The likelihood of him turning into a self-starter would have been nil.

DerekJohnson said:

I heard a riveting interview on the PBD Podcast of Roger Reeves, who was a pilot smuggler for Escobar. His idea for prison reform is that we turn the prisons into a type of trade school. Not for lifers, but for those serving 5-10-15 years. The idea is that they get sent in to serve 10 years, but study a trade like plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc. Then upon release, they have a valuable skill with which to build a new life. I have a feeling the way the prison system is set up now it is probably making certain people tons of money just like the pharmaceutical industry. Nevertheless, I think it's an idea that should be seriously explored.

These people are lost by age 15 imo

Really only military schools can fix it

SFGbob

MikeDamone said:

Sledog said:

They already have school, training etc. Some use it. Most do not. Drugs are the main driver of crime. Ask me how I know. Ever been inside a prison or county jail? Broken families are indeed the cause of this disaster. It results from liberal policies punishing welfare recipients for being married. Rewarding them for having more children etc. That has contributed to the rise in out of wedlock births and fatherless homes. Lots of factors but look at when that was instituted and the rise in crime stats.

You lock violent felons up. You lock repeat offenders up. Crimes start small and grow with criminals. Three strikes laws were hugely successful so democrats repealed them. Leniency in early crimes doesn't help it hurts. If you pay people more than minimum wage with welfare, section 8 etc. they have zero incentive to work and support themselves, children and family. I've dealt with many bad families from top to bottom. Quite common really. They cost more outside than inside jail.

Anyone else remember when I suggested educating kids on the long term consequences of single parenthood, Drug use and committing crimes and Hondo went nuts saying I wanted to indoctrinate kids?

JFC he was a moron

I've been singing that song for nearly 30 years.

Out of wedlock births is the engine that drives nearly all of our social problems.

MikeDamone

In Spokane in the 80s there was a bar that had a huge sign painted on the side of the building that we should have prisoners run on treadmills to generate electricity

SFGbob

WestlinnDuck

There already is a pile of federal credits and state work programs for businesses to hire ex-felons. For some reason, they still don't.

theknowledge said:

This is probably a naive thought but parlay Dereks new work force into rebuilding infrastructure. Their criminal record probably hinders the ability for these ex cons to find work in many companies upon release so give them a couple years experience working on rebuilding our crumbling country through government work projects. Make sure they keep their noses clean, drug tests, counseling etc and then help them hook on with a private company after a couple years service to their country. The private companies then could get tax credits for taking on experienced but checkered labor. Thats a build back better that I could get behind.

Sledog

WestlinnDuck said:

There already is a pile of federal credits and state work programs for businesses to hire ex-felons. For some reason, they still don't.

theknowledge said:

This is probably a naive thought but parlay Dereks new work force into rebuilding infrastructure. Their criminal record probably hinders the ability for these ex cons to find work in many companies upon release so give them a couple years experience working on rebuilding our crumbling country through government work projects. Make sure they keep their noses clean, drug tests, counseling etc and then help them hook on with a private company after a couple years service to their country. The private companies then could get tax credits for taking on experienced but checkered labor. Thats a build back better that I could get behind.

Prison is crook college. They emerge better criminals than when they went in. No way I know of to change it. Those that decide to go straight do. The majority decide to become better crooks.