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My body MY CHOICE
Comments
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If you develop some disease due to a decision you made and my liver, and only my liver, is the only thing that will cure it, is it ok for you to have me killed so that you can have access to my liver? Does that answer change even if the disease is not your fault? No, and no.pawz said:
No refinement necessary. We both draw stark lines.creepycoug said:pawz said:creepycoug said:
Although, and this will require some thought, with my new stance of zero tolerance for infringing on the inalienable rights of an innocent person, we have to think long and hard about the inherent tensions between true liberty and holding to account the cum dumpers themselves.MikeDamone said:
As a practical matter of gender roles, with which I agree btw, women wind up dealing with the kids. Good ones, bad ones, and everything in between. Men seldom get stuck, and as Bob and friends frequently remind us, the "cum and run" tendencies of some of our fellow men lead to great pressure on the welfare state, not to mention what it does to crime rates.
If we are to further our? shared interests in limiting (or, fuck, why not dream - eliminating) the welfare state and maybe do something about crime, seems to me we should apply at least as much pressure on dead beat baby daddies as we do on girls to remain chaste or use reliable birth control.
Boys, you gotta have some skin in the game besides the skin you have in the game. Do we, then, go after dead beat dads with full abandon and squeeze those reckless welfare-making mother fuckers to the bone until they at least financially support their kids? Or, instead, do we take a pure liberty approach and say to unwed and poor pregos, "hey, you could have kept your pants on."????
Interested in Mike's, Sleddy's and Roadtrip's take, and that of the others who have the right point of view on this issue. Not so much interested in the views of the morally compromised, like Preston and Fire Marshall. Still praying for Race.
In no way, shape, or form, should the State be involved to influence a doctor-patient consult or a subsequent medical procedure. Not for physician assisted euthanasia; not for an abortion; not for a fucking jab.
It's a principled position for individual sovereignty and ultimately a free society. Almost like attorney-client privilege.
An unfortunate necessity to be sure.
Sorry, the pure libertarian "out" needs some refinement. We clearly allow the state to intervene in the protection of life, and there can be no state sovereignty that can go its own way on this issue. Again, we're not going to allow the crazies in Oregon to one day declare murder is ok if someone stole your weed. If we do, the US of A is a meaningless fiction.
You're avoiding the hard part of this conversation. I've never taken you for being yella - @YellowSnow - get in the game and stop hiding behind "everyone can do whatever they want because privacy". No, they can't. We decided that a long time ago.
Again, since you are an attorney and would know how to do this, I recommend reading the original Roe decision. The decision is about the State's obligation to the mother's life. Yesterday was Mother's Day; I sounds like you don't think and care.
The hard part of the conversation: you seem to be willing to trade one life for another despite your all-life-is-sacrosanct altruism. The truth is that very decision is an unfortunate necessity.
It is very hard, which is why it is only fit for discussion amongst the philosopher kings. This is Savory Hall here Pawz. We're not in Poli Sci. -
Incorrect. Many of us (clear thinking and moral) folks know and agree it begins at conception. Prior to that very significant moment, you have two meaningless clump of cells. Basic biology Bill. Only social engineers make it complicated.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
There's no meltdown. Nobody can agree on when life starts. That's why I don't usually get involved in abortion discussions. There are lunatics who think it's fine to abort newborns or 38 weekers and there are pro life nuts such as yourself who follow anachronistic religious dogma.creepycoug said:
Meltdown incoming.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
I threw out a scenario and I'm a baby killer. Totally unhinged...creepycoug said:Baby Killer is upset ... and still doesn't understand the quote function.
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If people don't want a kid prevention is a far better solution than abortion. Abortion is now used as birth control. That ain't right in my book and if it is in yours you might want to take a deep look at yourself.
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Sleddy gets it.Sledog said:If people don't want a kid prevention is a far better solution than abortion. Abortion is now used as birth control. That ain't right in my book and if it is in yours you might want to take a deep look at yourself.
Also, Cum-and-run Baby Daddies - yeah I'm looking at you. You're in Creepy's crosshairs now. -
Since the government (in practical terms) is the only entity that could compel your acquiescence, you are making my case for me, philosopher king.creepycoug said:
If you develop some disease due to a decision you made and my liver, and only my liver, is the only thing that will cure it, is it ok for you to have me killed so that you can have access to my liver? Does that answer change even if the disease is not your fault? No, and no.pawz said:
No refinement necessary. We both draw stark lines.creepycoug said:pawz said:creepycoug said:
Although, and this will require some thought, with my new stance of zero tolerance for infringing on the inalienable rights of an innocent person, we have to think long and hard about the inherent tensions between true liberty and holding to account the cum dumpers themselves.MikeDamone said:
As a practical matter of gender roles, with which I agree btw, women wind up dealing with the kids. Good ones, bad ones, and everything in between. Men seldom get stuck, and as Bob and friends frequently remind us, the "cum and run" tendencies of some of our fellow men lead to great pressure on the welfare state, not to mention what it does to crime rates.
If we are to further our? shared interests in limiting (or, fuck, why not dream - eliminating) the welfare state and maybe do something about crime, seems to me we should apply at least as much pressure on dead beat baby daddies as we do on girls to remain chaste or use reliable birth control.
Boys, you gotta have some skin in the game besides the skin you have in the game. Do we, then, go after dead beat dads with full abandon and squeeze those reckless welfare-making mother fuckers to the bone until they at least financially support their kids? Or, instead, do we take a pure liberty approach and say to unwed and poor pregos, "hey, you could have kept your pants on."????
Interested in Mike's, Sleddy's and Roadtrip's take, and that of the others who have the right point of view on this issue. Not so much interested in the views of the morally compromised, like Preston and Fire Marshall. Still praying for Race.
In no way, shape, or form, should the State be involved to influence a doctor-patient consult or a subsequent medical procedure. Not for physician assisted euthanasia; not for an abortion; not for a fucking jab.
It's a principled position for individual sovereignty and ultimately a free society. Almost like attorney-client privilege.
An unfortunate necessity to be sure.
Sorry, the pure libertarian "out" needs some refinement. We clearly allow the state to intervene in the protection of life, and there can be no state sovereignty that can go its own way on this issue. Again, we're not going to allow the crazies in Oregon to one day declare murder is ok if someone stole your weed. If we do, the US of A is a meaningless fiction.
You're avoiding the hard part of this conversation. I've never taken you for being yella - @YellowSnow - get in the game and stop hiding behind "everyone can do whatever they want because privacy". No, they can't. We decided that a long time ago.
Again, since you are an attorney and would know how to do this, I recommend reading the original Roe decision. The decision is about the State's obligation to the mother's life. Yesterday was Mother's Day; I sounds like you don't think and care.
The hard part of the conversation: you seem to be willing to trade one life for another despite your all-life-is-sacrosanct altruism. The truth is that very decision is an unfortunate necessity.
It is very hard, which is why it is only fit for discussion amongst the philosopher kings. This is Savory Hall here Pawz. We're not in Poli Sci.
TYFYS
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Religious dogma? There are many anti abortion atheists. Science/Biology says life begins at conception with any species. Saying it doesn’t is simply a way to make pro abortion folks feel better about ending the life. People who smuggle declare they believe in “science” need to accept this fact. They can be certainly be pro abortion but one must always acknowledge that it does end a life. Stomping on a fertilized chicken egg ends a life. They can say it ends a life but don’t care, that’s fine. Make that argument. Don’t dance around the “when does life begin” bullshit.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
There's no meltdown. Nobody can agree on when life starts. That's why I don't usually get involved in abortion discussions. There are lunatics who think it's fine to abort newborns or 38 weekers and there are pro life nuts such as yourself who follow anachronistic religious dogma.creepycoug said:
Meltdown incoming.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
I threw out a scenario and I'm a baby killer. Totally unhinged...creepycoug said:Baby Killer is upset ... and still doesn't understand the quote function.
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Creep where is the moral and clear thinking line drawn for when a person's life officially ends?creepycoug said:
Incorrect. Many of us (clear thinking and moral) folks know and agree it begins at conception. Prior to that very significant moment, you have two meaningless clump of cells. Basic biology Bill. Only social engineers make it complicated.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
There's no meltdown. Nobody can agree on when life starts. That's why I don't usually get involved in abortion discussions. There are lunatics who think it's fine to abort newborns or 38 weekers and there are pro life nuts such as yourself who follow anachronistic religious dogma.creepycoug said:
Meltdown incoming.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
I threw out a scenario and I'm a baby killer. Totally unhinged...creepycoug said:Baby Killer is upset ... and still doesn't understand the quote function.
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So, no government intervention in private lives of citizens ever????? You vex me Pawz. At any given point in time, only the government can keep me from violating any one of your many rights under the constitution.pawz said:
Since the government (in practical terms) is the only entity that could compel your acquiescence, you are making my case for me, philosopher king.creepycoug said:
If you develop some disease due to a decision you made and my liver, and only my liver, is the only thing that will cure it, is it ok for you to have me killed so that you can have access to my liver? Does that answer change even if the disease is not your fault? No, and no.pawz said:
No refinement necessary. We both draw stark lines.creepycoug said:pawz said:creepycoug said:
Although, and this will require some thought, with my new stance of zero tolerance for infringing on the inalienable rights of an innocent person, we have to think long and hard about the inherent tensions between true liberty and holding to account the cum dumpers themselves.MikeDamone said:
As a practical matter of gender roles, with which I agree btw, women wind up dealing with the kids. Good ones, bad ones, and everything in between. Men seldom get stuck, and as Bob and friends frequently remind us, the "cum and run" tendencies of some of our fellow men lead to great pressure on the welfare state, not to mention what it does to crime rates.
If we are to further our? shared interests in limiting (or, fuck, why not dream - eliminating) the welfare state and maybe do something about crime, seems to me we should apply at least as much pressure on dead beat baby daddies as we do on girls to remain chaste or use reliable birth control.
Boys, you gotta have some skin in the game besides the skin you have in the game. Do we, then, go after dead beat dads with full abandon and squeeze those reckless welfare-making mother fuckers to the bone until they at least financially support their kids? Or, instead, do we take a pure liberty approach and say to unwed and poor pregos, "hey, you could have kept your pants on."????
Interested in Mike's, Sleddy's and Roadtrip's take, and that of the others who have the right point of view on this issue. Not so much interested in the views of the morally compromised, like Preston and Fire Marshall. Still praying for Race.
In no way, shape, or form, should the State be involved to influence a doctor-patient consult or a subsequent medical procedure. Not for physician assisted euthanasia; not for an abortion; not for a fucking jab.
It's a principled position for individual sovereignty and ultimately a free society. Almost like attorney-client privilege.
An unfortunate necessity to be sure.
Sorry, the pure libertarian "out" needs some refinement. We clearly allow the state to intervene in the protection of life, and there can be no state sovereignty that can go its own way on this issue. Again, we're not going to allow the crazies in Oregon to one day declare murder is ok if someone stole your weed. If we do, the US of A is a meaningless fiction.
You're avoiding the hard part of this conversation. I've never taken you for being yella - @YellowSnow - get in the game and stop hiding behind "everyone can do whatever they want because privacy". No, they can't. We decided that a long time ago.
Again, since you are an attorney and would know how to do this, I recommend reading the original Roe decision. The decision is about the State's obligation to the mother's life. Yesterday was Mother's Day; I sounds like you don't think and care.
The hard part of the conversation: you seem to be willing to trade one life for another despite your all-life-is-sacrosanct altruism. The truth is that very decision is an unfortunate necessity.
It is very hard, which is why it is only fit for discussion amongst the philosopher kings. This is Savory Hall here Pawz. We're not in Poli Sci.
TYFYS
Same thing here. You know the right answer. I know you do. -
Damone gets it. Still praying for Race to come around.MikeDamone said:
Religious dogma? There are many anti abortion atheists. Science/Biology says life begins at conception with any species. Saying it doesn’t is simply a way to make pro abortion folks feel better about ending the life. People who smuggle declare they believe in “science” need to accept this fact. They can be certainly be pro abortion but one must always acknowledge that it does end a life. Stomping on a fertilized chicken egg ends a life. They can say it ends a life but don’t care, that’s fine. Make that argument. Don’t dance around the “when does life begin” bullshit.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
There's no meltdown. Nobody can agree on when life starts. That's why I don't usually get involved in abortion discussions. There are lunatics who think it's fine to abort newborns or 38 weekers and there are pro life nuts such as yourself who follow anachronistic religious dogma.creepycoug said:
Meltdown incoming.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
I threw out a scenario and I'm a baby killer. Totally unhinged...creepycoug said:Baby Killer is upset ... and still doesn't understand the quote function.
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I'm a conservative Christian sociopath
