Vladimir The Great

Good CBC doc about the strategy that Putin keeps using on his former satellite countries, which he will take back.

Doc appears to be made in 2008, but the Putin strategy hasn't and isn't going to change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Rkom1RpKA

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PostGameOrangeSlices

Problem is, many of his former satellite countries are now in NATO.

And after the Ukraine clusterfuck, those that aren't really, really want to become members.

Putin's charades are going to hurt Russia far more than it will help it. Now all of Europe wants to get off Russian gas even faster than they previously did, and when that happens, Russia is fucked.

MikeDamone

Disagree. The EU is a cluster economically. They won't do shit. Militarily or economically. Their actions will be "strongly condemned" and Obama will tell him to get out of the satellites in "the strongest language possibly" but no one is going to do a fucking thing.

DerekJohnson

I had hoped this thread was going to be about one of my favorite players, former Expo Vladimir Guerrero.

bananasnblondes

I was hoping it was going to be about Vlad the Impaler

dnc

You rang?

priapism

So then, Putin should move faster on Ukraine?

30-40% of Europe's electricity comes from Gazprom...would take decades to get off this much Russian power. Putin still has plenty of time to take back his satellites. Ukraine and the satellites should have developed WMDs. Maybe the U.S. can sneak some over and sell them some soon.

PostGameOrangeSlices

I'm not

Uhhh, what?

Russia isn't going any further. Most of the satellites worth a shit are in NATO.

If Russia does move against NATO, Europe is more than capable of kicking Russia's ass.

Europe does rely heavily on Russian gas, but Norway and Scandinavia are making plans to build new pipelines. None of Europe likes using Russian gas, they are trying to come up with any alternatives they can to Gazprom fuel.

topdawgnc

Napoleon and Hitler both believed that too.

Putin knows nobody will move to check him.

Ukraine was CarterFS for giving up their nukes ...

The world was too giddy from the love fest after the fall of the Soviet Union to realize history would repeat itself.

America encircled Russia by pulling countries into NATO Bush Sr. promised would not be recruited.

Bush Jr did nothing when tanks rolled into Georgia.

Obama does nothing now with Ukraine.

... Hitler rose to power on the backs of a broken nation looking for a hero. Putin is doing the same.

Europe will do nothing ... America will do nothing.

Leaders of the free world are like a bunch of Cuckolds watching Russia fuck their wives.

PostGameOrangeSlices

You are fucking stupid.

No one gives a fuck about Georgia, and no one really gives a fuck about the Crimea annexation, or Ukraine.

Russia attacking a NATO country is a completely different story. Every NATO member is obligated to declare war on Russia, and they will. No one likes Russia, and Russia doesn't have that strong of a military. France, England, and the US would fuck Russia up.

Christ people on this forum are fucking ignorant

MikeDamone

No way does the USA go to war with Russia over places like Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, etc. Obama will draw a red line in the sand, and then nothing. The American people and Obama do not have the stomach for anything close to another war.

Tequilla

Toppy,

In general I agree with most of your post.

HOWEVER, I think that there's a MASSIVE difference between the Russia that Napoleon and Hitler tried to invade BY LAND and today's modern technology that will make the challenges that both Napoleon and Hitler faced (notably harsh winters, trying to overtake Russia by land, and the vast number of Russia people).

Ultimately the biggest military advantages that Russia have had have been the weather, the number of people, and their nuclear ability. At least 2 of those 3 are more or less neutralized now.

AZDuck

Yeah, but still.

The Ukraine (I'm old school like that and I like to call it THE Ukraine, you know, like THE Ohio State University) is pretty much fucked. Best outcome for the literate Ukrainians in the west is to get their chunk of the country incorporated into EU institutions and NATO eventually. Eastern half becomes some post-Soviet piece of shit like Belarus, probably.

Here's to the new Cold War, same as the old Cold War. The way I see it, this is actually a really good thing in many respects. It gives us military types something to do, and we can have fun setting up new bases in Poland, Romania and the Baltics. New Russia sucks more than old USSR.

topdawgnc

I agree.

But here's the cold hard facts.

Nobody in the western world has the desire to go to war with Russia.

So to say we would "fuck Russia up" is ignorant. No way in hell does the civilized west invade Russia. And if they did it would be half assed and Russia would wipe ass with whoever tries.

Regarding the NATO nations, the former SU satellites have grown reliant on trade with Russia, not just in energy ... but the economies are very tightly intertwined. There can be influence.

Putin is not stupid, he is an opportunist. He will lay in wait until he can get what he wants, then he takes it. Knowing the west won't do shit. And if they do he backs off.

Having the west show weakness (Georgia, Ukraine, missile defense) is just the cherry on top.

Tequilla

I agree with everything that you are saying on that.

There's no desire from the West to either invade or go to war. The biggest muscle that they are willing to throw out there right now is tied to economic sanctions, etc.

There's no doubt that Putin has decided that he's going to take advantage of what others are going to consider not worth fighting for and he views as low hanging fruit.

However, at some point, there will be some point where Putin decides to go one step too far.

RoadDawg55

I once saw Radmanovich hit three straight shots, sitting down on the Sonics bench. It was pretty amazing.

PostGameOrangeSlices

The USA WILL go to war if a NATO country like Latvia or Lithuania is attacked. Which is moot, because Russia isn't dumb enough to commit suicide.

Europe learned some very harsh lessons from WW2. There is no fucking way an attack on a NATO nation will be ignored. Every NATO country would be obligated to go to war, and they would. It's not like Putin would stop at Lithuania.

Poland is a country where the scars are still very vivid, and they are modernizing the fuck out of their military right now.

Russia wouldn't need to be invaded by NATO. NATO would bomb the fuck out of anything in Russia resembling a military base/nuclear facility, and that would be that.

The Russian AirForce against the World's is a fucking curbstomping waiting to happen. Russia's AF is outdated and would probably get wiped by fucking France.

Also, the Russian military is full of conscripts, and would get shit on by professional, full-time soldiers from the EU. The Russian military strategy throughout history can be summed up as this: we aren't as strong or well organized as you, but we have fucktons of poorly trained conscripts to charge at you!

Russia is a fucking joke, and it's hilarious that some American's think Putin is this Napoleon-esque badass general. Putin is a fucking washed up KGB strongman that cares about building the wealth of the Russian 0.0001%, and nothing else.

PostGameOrangeSlices

what the flying fuck did you want the US to do? Go to war because Georgia attacked the Russia puppet state of South Ossetia?

Should the US have gone to war over ethnic Russian/spetznaz stirring up trouble in Crimea?

Ukraine fucked themselves with the missile defense system. Last time I checked, Russia is surrounded by US missile systems and bases.

Jesus christ I have no hope for humanity. The problem with the US isn't Obama, it's dumbasses who think it matters who the president is. It's a systemic problem, not a one man problem.

Tequilla

The whole Russian mentality has always been that quantity (ABUNDANCE) >>> quality

PostGameOrangeSlices

And what a successful mentality that's been. From Kievan Rus getting annihilated by the Mongols to Russia's clusterfuck invasion of Finland in the Winter War, Russian military history is pretty fucking embarrassing.

Russia's major historical victories can be attributed to cold weather and bad timing by their enemies. Without freakishly cold weather, Russia would probably still be a part of Napoleonic France.

PostGameOrangeSlices

el oh el, a LOT more.