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Courtney Morgan (future Doog Legend candidate) finally coming to terms with UW recruiting
bananasnblondes
Member Posts: 15,506
Recent posts highlighting the "stars don't matter", "emptmann was a 2-star" and "we want guys we can develop" mentality is a little ominous
Comments
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I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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I was done with stars when after UW “leveled up” they won 8 and 4 games. The west coast is under evaluated. Find good players and plug them into a solid program that is built on development. Don Butler, Mason Foster, Kevin King, BBK, Azeem Victor, Greg Gaines, Jaylon Johnson. Find guys like this and go to war with them.Mad_Son said:I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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The irony is most of those guys were on shitty college teams
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Basically preparing everyone for more 3 star development.
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He’s right. Let’s just recruit guys that will be NFL stars.
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It’s all so simple? Nevermind The 100 3stars that did nothing for each of those guys. I’m sure he knows how to only get the 1% that pan outFear_Boner said:He’s right. Let’s just recruit guys that will be NFL stars.
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look at the offers lmao. It's majority 4 and 5 stars.
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We aren’t going to sign top 5-10 classes. It’s all about evaluating and developing. The coaches have to close the guys that they want. So far, our staff seems competent, organized, and gives effort on the trail.theknowledge said:
I was done with stars when after UW “leveled up” they won 8 and 4 games. The west coast is under evaluated. Find good players and plug them into a solid program that is built on development. Don Butler, Mason Foster, Kevin King, BBK, Azeem Victor, Greg Gaines, Jaylon Johnson. Find guys like this and go to war with them.Mad_Son said:I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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If we finish 15th every year in recruiting rankings but work really hard in development, that'd be fine with meRoadDawg55 said:
We aren’t going to sign top 5-10 classes. It’s all about evaluating and developing. The coaches have to close the guys that they want. So far, our staff seems competent, organized, and gives effort on the trail.theknowledge said:
I was done with stars when after UW “leveled up” they won 8 and 4 games. The west coast is under evaluated. Find good players and plug them into a solid program that is built on development. Don Butler, Mason Foster, Kevin King, BBK, Azeem Victor, Greg Gaines, Jaylon Johnson. Find guys like this and go to war with them.Mad_Son said:I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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Doug sees the light.Doug said:
It’s all so simple? Nevermind The 100 3stars that did nothing for each of those guys. I’m sure he knows how to only get the 1% that pan outFear_Boner said:He’s right. Let’s just recruit guys that will be NFL stars.
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The whole you there's some 2 stars and shit that can be turned into NFL stars narrative is a dead Horse that's been picked away by vultures and is now a skeleton bleached in the sun. The majority of the guys in the NFL right now are a bunch of big time recruits who played at Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Georgia.
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I'd be fine with that too. Right now it looks like a major uphill battle to get there though. USC and Oregon are bringing in huge groups of top end talent this weekend and next for visits. UW is bringing in a small handful of "high upside" kids, some punters and kickers, and a few guys with PWO offers from other schools.DerekJohnson said:
If we finish 15th every year in recruiting rankings but work really hard in development, that'd be fine with meRoadDawg55 said:
We aren’t going to sign top 5-10 classes. It’s all about evaluating and developing. The coaches have to close the guys that they want. So far, our staff seems competent, organized, and gives effort on the trail.theknowledge said:
I was done with stars when after UW “leveled up” they won 8 and 4 games. The west coast is under evaluated. Find good players and plug them into a solid program that is built on development. Don Butler, Mason Foster, Kevin King, BBK, Azeem Victor, Greg Gaines, Jaylon Johnson. Find guys like this and go to war with them.Mad_Son said:I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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Not getting visits from top end talent isn’t encouraging but it’s still early.
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DerekJohnson said:
If we finish 15th every year in recruiting rankings but work really harder than ever in development, that'd be fine with meRoadDawg55 said:
We aren’t going to sign top 5-10 classes. It’s all about evaluating and developing. The coaches have to close the guys that they want. So far, our staff seems competent, organized, and gives effort on the trail.theknowledge said:
I was done with stars when after UW “leveled up” they won 8 and 4 games. The west coast is under evaluated. Find good players and plug them into a solid program that is built on development. Don Butler, Mason Foster, Kevin King, BBK, Azeem Victor, Greg Gaines, Jaylon Johnson. Find guys like this and go to war with them.Mad_Son said:I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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Yeah IDGAF about what they say, its about what they do. When Petersen was recruiting top 10 classes he was still saying he didn't care about stars.backthepack said:look at the offers lmao. It's majority 4 and 5 stars.
90% of recruits aren't 4/5*s and probably want to hear that stars don't matter -
That's because lazylake left us in such a HUGE recruiting hole. We can't judge boner and the boys on this years class. I think they finish strong this year but next year will tell the tale.bananasnblondes said:
I'd be fine with that too. Right now it looks like a major uphill battle to get there though. USC and Oregon are bringing in huge groups of top end talent this weekend and next for visits. UW is bringing in a small handful of "high upside" kids, some punters and kickers, and a few guys with PWO offers from other schools.DerekJohnson said:
If we finish 15th every year in recruiting rankings but work really hard in development, that'd be fine with meRoadDawg55 said:
We aren’t going to sign top 5-10 classes. It’s all about evaluating and developing. The coaches have to close the guys that they want. So far, our staff seems competent, organized, and gives effort on the trail.theknowledge said:
I was done with stars when after UW “leveled up” they won 8 and 4 games. The west coast is under evaluated. Find good players and plug them into a solid program that is built on development. Don Butler, Mason Foster, Kevin King, BBK, Azeem Victor, Greg Gaines, Jaylon Johnson. Find guys like this and go to war with them.Mad_Son said:I am on board with the mindset that it's what you do that matters, not the number of stars you come in with.
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SomeWoolleyDoog said:The whole you there's some 2 stars and shit that can be turned into NFL stars narrative is a dead Horse that's been picked away by vultures and is now a skeleton bleached in the sun. The majority of the guys in the NFL right now are a bunch of big time recruits who played at Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Georgia.
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People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.
Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though. -
Stars are assigned when kids are 15 or 16, so there's plenty of time for kids to continue to grow, develop, learn, and appreciate the game as they get older.bananasnblondes said:Recent posts highlighting the "stars don't matter", "emptmann was a 2-star" and "we want guys we can develop" mentality is a little ominous
To me, the most important thing is getting a full class every year and being able to trim the fat with kids that can portal to lower schools when they ride the bench. Getting as many opportunities to see who develops and who doesn't is probably the best way to build a team with depth. -
Did any of those guys do anything significant in college (other than Burrow obviously). Axing seriously.
It’s cool they’re great NFL players. Morgan’s job is to find great college players. -
Target physical freaks that are not pussies. Find some guys that are leaders too. I don’t care what their stars are but the reality is those guys are typically ranked higher.
This is not hard and the argument on both sides is stupid. -
Morgan is probably prepping people for Kevonte Henry to head to Oklahoma or Florida instead of UW.
There is a direct relationship between avg. star rating and a team's success on the field.
But the recruiting services (and coaches) regularly miss 2 and 3 star recruits who turn out to be 4 and 5 star college players. Though it's worth pointing out that even Alabama takes at least a few 3-stars every year and in 2018, they took seven 3-star players.
Bottom line is #GiveMeJoshOrGiveMeDeath...closing out with him and a few high 3-stars (Vega, Triston Dunn, E. Winston) and a few other guys would be fine with me since the big bump will come for the 2023 class. -
WoolleyDoog said:
The whole you there's some 2 stars and shit that can be turned into NFL stars narrative is a dead Horse that's been picked away by vultures and is now a skeleton bleached in the sun. The majority of the guys in the NFL right now are a bunch of big time recruits who played at Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Georgia.
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If Morgan .001% or more truly believed that, and said/implied that in any way to Harbaugh then I one hundred percent understand why we were able to "poach" him away from Michigan.
This is what you say when you have figured out the rated high end kids on your board are not coming here and are pivoting to plan B. -
I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.chuck said:People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.
Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.
We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.
There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.
It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.
Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.
Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.
There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.
Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time. -
They were all really good in college besides Josh Allen.whlinder said:Did any of those guys do anything significant in college (other than Burrow obviously). Axing seriously.
It’s cool they’re great NFL players. Morgan’s job is to find great college players. -
this NIL stuff is a game changer. If UW does not get its head out of its ass it might be holding the short end of the stick. I don't think the old formula will work.RoadDawg55 said:
I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.chuck said:People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.
Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.
We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.
There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.
It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.
Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.
Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.
There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.
Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time. -
Only a fan base as drunk as Buffalo would have supported Allen when he was picked.RoadDawg55 said:
They were all really good in college besides Josh Allen.whlinder said:Did any of those guys do anything significant in college (other than Burrow obviously). Axing seriously.
It’s cool they’re great NFL players. Morgan’s job is to find great college players. -
There are future stars out there without 4* ratings...a lot of them. Any good staff at UW is going to find them. Hell even the bad staffs (Ty in particular) did. UW is never going to pull top 10 classes again barring a major resetAtomicDawg said:Target physical freaks that are not pussies. Find some guys that are leaders too. I don’t care what their stars are but the reality is those guys are typically ranked higher.
This is not hard and the argument on both sides is stupid.
Yep all true. I try to see through the rankings and be objective about recruits and sometimes I get it right. I saw the quality of guys like Jones and Gaines but that really wasn't hard. The rankings were easy to look past. Petersen and his crew were good at getting the overlooked 3* guys and I'm pretty convinced that's the key to succeeding at UW from a personnel standpoint. Top 20 classes are fine if the evaluation and development are good.RoadDawg55 said:
I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.chuck said:People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.
Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.
We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.
There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.
It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.
Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.
Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.
There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.
Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time.
DeBoer and his guys should be similarly good at snagging guys that BSU, Fresno, or Utah would turn into good players. -
Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:
Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)
Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.
Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.
