Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Show your support for what this community means to you:
Choose a Donation Amount
Username
(required for credit)
Welcome to the Hardcore Husky Forums. Folks who are well-known in Cyberland and not that dumb.

Kyle Seagar (Seattle Mariners) Announces Retirement

ChillyDawgChillyDawg Member Posts: 1,469
250 Answers 1000 Comments 250 Awesomes 100 Up Votes
edited January 1 in Other Sports
Seags is one of the very few MLB players to play their entire career with only one baseball team during the modern free agency era. Will go down as one of the legendary Mariners players in franchise history...


Baseball Reference https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seageky01.shtml






Seattle Squad: Kyle Seagar Career Highlights



MLB (2020): For the first time in their MLB careers, Dodgers' Corey Seager and Mariners' Kyle Seager played each other! The brothers both had huge games, both hitting homers and getting a handful of hits!

Comments

  • DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 42,145
    Swaye's Wigwam Solar Eclipse Donator 10,000 Awesomes 10,000 Up Votes
    It's a nice story but a legend? What did he ever help win? He deserves appreciation and applause, but he is getting the Jake Locker treatment.
    Fishpo31ChillyDawgTXDawgBleachedAnusDawg
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 993
    1,500 Awesomes 250 Answers 500 Up Votes 500 Comments
    Seager is a player that every good club has, he just never played on many good clubs...professional, consistent, works at it, cares. I put him in the Jay Buhner category. Neither one can put a team on their back and carry them, but they are good, solid pros. They are complimentary players, and need good-to-great players around them to win.

    Off-Seager topic, but as good as the 2001 line-up was (Ichi, Edgar, Boone, Olerud, Cameron, et.al), the MVP of that club for me was Mark McLemore, because of his flexibility, letting Lou move guys around for match-ups, and rest. When Guillen went down, Mac was stuck at SS, flexibility gone, World Series hope gone...

    I can remember my dad complaining about Beltre, when he went to Boston, "We let them go, THEN they become stars"...Beltre was good for the M's, but he wasn't a 3-hole hitter then. He was pitched to very carefully, because they had no one around him for protection. Got to Boston, put him in the 5-6 hole, he protected Big Papi, got pitched to, and rolled. Buhner's career was made by Jr and Edgar, because they would work around them, and had to pitch to Jay. Different criteria, but same for Dan Wilson.

    A "Legend" to me is someone that produces big, no matter who is around them...Jr, Edgar, Ichiro, Felix. Felix got hosed big-time, because people pay attention to W/L records rather than more telling numbers.
    DerekJohnsonChillyDawgBleachedAnusDawg
  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 3,661
    Standard Supporter Eighth Anniversary 2,500 Up Votes 1,500 Awesomes
    I still don't fully understand why Seager and Dipoto had a beef. I know that Seager got lazy one year and was sort of fat and lacked inflexibility in 2018 so maybe Dipoto thought his lack of living up to his contract made them miss the playoffs that year?
    ChillyDawgFishpo31
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 993
    1,500 Awesomes 250 Answers 500 Up Votes 500 Comments
    I think it is a combo of Dipoto being smart, confident / arrogant ("Look at how smart I am"), and little to no tact or filter. Baseball people are notorious for being in-your-face blunt, and can find fault with damn near anything. Dip likes the mic / camera, and refers to players as "pieces", very impersonal. I tend to believe that Mather's comments were a result of meetings with Dip. Normal people, business people, don't devalue assets publicly like that.

    Never heard that Seager was lazy, but I remember him changing his off-season program to cut weight and re-shape his body. Dip was probably not happy he had a bloated contract on the books, and directly or indirectly let it be known. Seager took it personally (anyone would) and that was that.

    IMO, nothing that Dip or Mather said was inaccurate, but Mather was big-dicking it and let the quiet part out of the bag...I've had a few dealings with Dip, and have friends who have worked with / for him...not many like him, which is OK if you win...
    HFNYChillyDawg
  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 3,661
    Standard Supporter Eighth Anniversary 2,500 Up Votes 1,500 Awesomes
    Very Chinteresting.

    Seager wasn't his guy so I suspect when Dipoto took over, he probably had less tolerance for performance slippage from Seager than any guy he would have brought in. The stupid poison pill in Seager's contract also likely frustrated him to no end because he couldn't trade him to cut salary and get a few decent prospects back to a team that needed a LH bat and a good fielding 3B.

    I looked at Seager's splits and he was bad in 2018, not even in the top 12 of WAR for the 2018 team. He was also notably worse hitting at home in his career than on the road.

    Anyway, my guess is that the rift opened in spring training of 2018 when he showed up for pudgy for his age 30 season making $19 million and then was probably the difference between making the playoffs and not. I imagine Dipoto never forgave him for that since it was such an important year and everyone knew it heading into 2018.

    Last note is that Seager went from 6.7 WAR in 2016 to 3.6 WAR in 2017 to 1.1 WAR in 2018. Massive decline over two seasons and all the M's needed was for Seager to be at 3 WAR for 2018 but he was a 1/3rd of that. He bounced back with a WAR of 3.2 in 2019 but that was during the rebuild and a horrible season so it was too little, too late.

    Fishpo31ChillyDawg
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 993
    1,500 Awesomes 250 Answers 500 Up Votes 500 Comments
    edited January 2
    Dip is a wheeler-dealer, and there are some harsh realities for those guys (much like Schneid/Pete)...
    1. You are always looking for the "next guy"
    2. The "Next guy" always looks better, from the outside, than the guy you have
    3. ...and, that is not always the case. when your guy leaves and the NG arrives

    Everyone always says "it's business, not personal"...well, it IS business, and it IS personal, when you are on the receiving end of said business.
    ChillyDawg
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 6,836
    Swaye's Wigwam 10,000 Awesomes 5,000 Up Votes Eighth Anniversary
    I like Seager a lot. It's too bad they don't have him at his best now. He be a solid piece on a good team. Even at his best he's easily improved on though. Sad to see him go but glad they didn't stupidly pay him.
    Fishpo31ChillyDawg
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 993
    1,500 Awesomes 250 Answers 500 Up Votes 500 Comments
    Seager is a run producer, and run producers are 1. hard to find and, 2. very expensive. Lot of smoke about Kris Bryant coming here. According to Baseball Reference calculations, they project Seags (if he were to play in 2022) with 27 HR and 84 RBI. Bryant's projecting 21 HR and 62 RBI, with a most recent salary of $19.5mm.

    The last few years Seager's BA dropped, but his run production increased. Agree about avoiding the payout, but they are gonna pay (or go without) one way or another. Expecting Toro to replace that production is a big reach, as is anyone replacing it in the immediate for under $20mm+...I've told my players for years, "Talk is cheap; runs are expensive"...
    chuckChillyDawg
  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 3,661
    Standard Supporter Eighth Anniversary 2,500 Up Votes 1,500 Awesomes
    You probably know a lot more about baseball than I do though I don't just look HRs and RBI. Seager's BABIP and OBP were horrible in 2021 and unlikely to improve. Plus he is in clear decline while Bryant bounced back after an injury plagued 2020 and could be even better in 2022 due to being 1 more year removed from said injury year (at age 30).

    Another nice thing about Bryant is that he can play 3B and OF, the positional flexibility is worth a few million per year IMHO.

    Lastly, this article from early November has Bryant as the #6 FA and Seager at #30: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-top-50-free-agents/
    chuckChillyDawg
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 6,836
    Swaye's Wigwam 10,000 Awesomes 5,000 Up Votes Eighth Anniversary
    Fishpo31 said:

    Seager is a run producer, and run producers are 1. hard to find and, 2. very expensive. Lot of smoke about Kris Bryant coming here. According to Baseball Reference calculations, they project Seags (if he were to play in 2022) with 27 HR and 84 RBI. Bryant's projecting 21 HR and 62 RBI, with a most recent salary of $19.5mm.

    The last few years Seager's BA dropped, but his run production increased. Agree about avoiding the payout, but they are gonna pay (or go without) one way or another. Expecting Toro to replace that production is a big reach, as is anyone replacing it in the immediate for under $20mm+...I've told my players for years, "Talk is cheap; runs are expensive"...

    I quit paying attention to baseball and fell behind on the newer, better metrics, so I'm ot equipped to argue. I'm pretty sure that the metrics don't look too favorably on Seager's 2021 though even with the career highs in HR and RBI. He produces in bunches but is a drag on the middle of the order for long stretches. 20 million needs to get you more than 35 homers and a shit ton of unproductive at bats.
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 993
    1,500 Awesomes 250 Answers 500 Up Votes 500 Comments
    I agree with both of you. I don’t dive into advanced stats really, but as a coach, run production is my bag. Good chit!
    chuckHFNYChillyDawg
  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 3,661
    Standard Supporter Eighth Anniversary 2,500 Up Votes 1,500 Awesomes
    Fishpo31 said:

    I agree with both of you. I don’t dive into advanced stats really, but as a coach, run production is my bag. Good chit!

    It is probable that many players truly worth $19 million would have had more run production than Seager had in 2021. He hit third 110 games and fourth 46 games with JP Crawford (.345 OBP hitting lead off) and the excellent Mitch Haniger hitting 2nd.

    In fact, one could argue that Seager often occupied the best slot in the batting order. He had good players in front of him to get on base, and thus available to be driven in while then he had Ty France behind him to make sure he saw good pitches.

    Probably the worst indictment of him and similar to 2018, he didn't show up when needed most. In September when pushing for a playoff spot, he slashed .200 / .267 / .382 with just 16 RBIs (and 11 runs) in 28 games.

    And the highest paid player really needs to be consistent but he only hit .159 / .245 / .329 with in 79 games at home with just 13 HRs and 34 RBIs (and 82 strikeouts). While that is certainly better than I could have done, it is shockingly bad.
    ChillyDawgFishpo31chuck
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 6,836
    Swaye's Wigwam 10,000 Awesomes 5,000 Up Votes Eighth Anniversary
    HFNY said:

    Fishpo31 said:

    I agree with both of you. I don’t dive into advanced stats really, but as a coach, run production is my bag. Good chit!

    It is probable that many players truly worth $19 million would have had more run production than Seager had in 2021. He hit third 110 games and fourth 46 games with JP Crawford (.345 OBP hitting lead off) and the excellent Mitch Haniger hitting 2nd.

    In fact, one could argue that Seager often occupied the best slot in the batting order. He had good players in front of him to get on base, and thus available to be driven in while then he had Ty France behind him to make sure he saw good pitches.

    Probably the worst indictment of him and similar to 2018, he didn't show up when needed most. In September when pushing for a playoff spot, he slashed .200 / .267 / .382 with just 16 RBIs (and 11 runs) in 28 games.

    And the highest paid player really needs to be consistent but he only hit .159 / .245 / .329 with in 79 games at home with just 13 HRs and 34 RBIs (and 82 strikeouts). While that is certainly better than I could have done, it is shockingly bad.
    I think the best order would have been France third and Haniger fifth behind Seager. Can't recall but I thought I saw that lineup at times.

    This year there will be a pretty legit #2 hitter, and France in the third spot is going to kill it. That's what I hope happens.
  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 13,015
    10,000 Awesomes 10,000 Up Votes Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments
    I see why you ran him...
Sign In or Register to comment.