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I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next -
The Domino TheoryRoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
If we were weak anywhere the Red Menace would strike
There was truth in that, see the Carter years, but it was used to justify everything
No one in charge really thought the US could win in Vietnam but they were afraid to lose so they played for a tie -
200,000 US soldiers, another 250k S. Vietnamese and 2,000,000 N. Vietnamese died for that tie.RaceBannon said:
The Domino TheoryRoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
If we were weak anywhere the Red Menace would strike
There was truth in that, see the Carter years, but it was used to justify everything
No one in charge really thought the US could win in Vietnam but they were afraid to lose so they played for a tie
After the war, was Vietnam still divided by the North and South? Communism is the state government there today correct? -
@roadtrip 200,000 US soldiers didn’t die. If you’re going to put up stats, at least be accurate.RoadTrip said:
200,000 US soldiers, another 250k S. Vietnamese and 2,000,000 N. Vietnamese died for that tie.RaceBannon said:
The Domino TheoryRoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
If we were weak anywhere the Red Menace would strike
There was truth in that, see the Carter years, but it was used to justify everything
No one in charge really thought the US could win in Vietnam but they were afraid to lose so they played for a tie
After the war, was Vietnam still divided by the North and South? Communism is the state government there today correct?
Also, it wasn’t a tie. Korea was a tie. Vietnam was an L. Like Afghanistan was an L.
Race didn’t say it ended in a tie. He said the US played for a tie. But that didn’t work out. -
I had always thought it was 75K. It doesn't surprise me Google's first result Wikipedia is a lie. What is the real #? Also, you're correct in what Race wrote and your point about losing because we played for a tie. The reason I'm asking is my youngest son has been asking a lot of questions about that war and I don't have most of the answers.MikeDamone said:
200,000 US soldiers didn’t die. If you’re going to put up stats, at least be accurate.RoadTrip said:
200,000 US soldiers, another 250k S. Vietnamese and 2,000,000 N. Vietnamese died for that tie.RaceBannon said:
The Domino TheoryRoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
If we were weak anywhere the Red Menace would strike
There was truth in that, see the Carter years, but it was used to justify everything
No one in charge really thought the US could win in Vietnam but they were afraid to lose so they played for a tie
After the war, was Vietnam still divided by the North and South? Communism is the state government there today correct?
Also, it wasn’t a tie. Korea was a tie. Vietnam was an L. Like Afghanistan was an L.
Race didn’t say it ended in a tie. He said the US played for a tie. But that didn’t work out. -
58,220 U.S. troops were casualties in the undeclared Vietnam War, which encompassed North and South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
https://www.archives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics
An untold number died once they returned to civilian life (drug addiction, PTSD, some died from the effects of being exposed to Agent Orange).
-
Different times. Khrushchev said he would bury us and the American left believed him. There was a belief in real Americans which back then included most democrats that we could fight the commies over there or just let them take over the world and then either give up or fight them here. We stopped the chicoms from taking over South Korea by fighting a half assed war with pretend boundaries that we couldn't cross. Two things were different from Vietnam. The South Koreans didn't want to be North Koreans and were actually engaged in defending their country and there was no equivalent Viet Cong movement. The other was the election of Eisenhower in 1952. He scared the sh*t out of the chicoms and their feeling was that the war wasn't going to be half assed and they were scared of getting nuked. So, the war quickly ended with a truce and a divided Korea.RoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
The US military establishment wanted to get into Vietnam and so we did. I'm not sure if Kennedy would have put up with a major US presence in Vietnam with more half assed warfare. But his successor Johnson and his advisors for some reason thought that a half million US soldiers in Vietnam and a half assed war would bring the North to the bargaining table for a real truce. That never happened because the commies felt that the US would never seriously try to win the war and played the long game. The hard American left wanted the commies to win and at best the South Vietnamese were ambivalent about defending themselves (like the Afghans against the Taliban). Eventually the American public decided that if we didn't want to win the war, they wanted out. Same with our half assed war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
By 1980, Reagan realized that the Soviet Union was basically a house of cards and with some strong American confidence in freedom, liberty and capitalism that we could break them. And we did. The Red Scare that prevailed in the 1950s and 1960s was replaced with a view that communism belonged in the trash heap of history. The fifth column is now back in the US and we are as weak as we were under Carter with the same fear of the direction of history. -
Thank youWestlinnDuck said:
Different times. Khrushchev said he would bury us and the American left believed him. There was a belief in real Americans which back then included most democrats that we could fight the commies over there or just let them take over the world and then either give up or fight them here. We stopped the chicoms from taking over South Korea by fighting a half assed war with pretend boundaries that we couldn't cross. Two things were different from Vietnam. The South Koreans didn't want to be North Koreans and were actually engaged in defending their country and there was no equivalent Viet Cong movement. The other was the election of Eisenhower in 1952. He scared the sh*t out of the chicoms and their feeling was that the war wasn't going to be half assed and they were scared of getting nuked. So, the war quickly ended with a truce and a divided Korea.RoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
The US military establishment wanted to get into Vietnam and so we did. I'm not sure if Kennedy would have put up with a major US presence in Vietnam with more half assed warfare. But his successor Johnson and his advisors for some reason thought that a half million US soldiers in Vietnam and a half assed war would bring the North to the bargaining table for a real truce. That never happened because the commies felt that the US would never seriously try to win the war and played the long game. The hard American left wanted the commies to win and at best the South Vietnamese were ambivalent about defending themselves (like the Afghans against the Taliban). Eventually the American public decided that if we didn't want to win the war, they wanted out. Same with our half assed war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
By 1980, Reagan realized that the Soviet Union was basically a house of cards and with some strong American confidence in freedom, liberty and capitalism that we could break them. And we did. The Red Scare that prevailed in the 1950s and 1960s was replaced with a view that communism belonged in the trash heap of history. The fifth column is now back in the US and we are as weak as we were under Carter with the same fear of the direction of history. -
Without looking it up i think it’s just shy of 50,000. 200,000 sounds like the number of causalities.RoadTrip said:
I had always thought it was 75K. It doesn't surprise me Google's first result Wikipedia is a lie. What is the real #? Also, you're correct in what Race wrote and your point about losing because we played for a tie. The reason I'm asking is my youngest son has been asking a lot of questions about that war and I don't have most of the answers.MikeDamone said:
200,000 US soldiers didn’t die. If you’re going to put up stats, at least be accurate.RoadTrip said:
200,000 US soldiers, another 250k S. Vietnamese and 2,000,000 N. Vietnamese died for that tie.RaceBannon said:
The Domino TheoryRoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
If we were weak anywhere the Red Menace would strike
There was truth in that, see the Carter years, but it was used to justify everything
No one in charge really thought the US could win in Vietnam but they were afraid to lose so they played for a tie
After the war, was Vietnam still divided by the North and South? Communism is the state government there today correct?
Also, it wasn’t a tie. Korea was a tie. Vietnam was an L. Like Afghanistan was an L.
Race didn’t say it ended in a tie. He said the US played for a tie. But that didn’t work out.
Start by telling your son it was a absolute fuck up and if we learned anything is that the government is corrupt and will use whatever is at their disposal to enrich themselves and their friends. Even kills thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of foreigners. Then give him an assignment to compare and contrast the Vietnam war and the COVID pandemic.
If anyone wonders how some of were right about covid in March of 2020, it’s because we remember Vietnam and everything since. The pattern was not going to divert. It never does. -
Love the assignment and he's the kind of kid who will be interested.MikeDamone said:
Without looking it up i think it’s just shy of 50,000. 200,000 sounds like the number of causalities.RoadTrip said:
I had always thought it was 75K. It doesn't surprise me Google's first result Wikipedia is a lie. What is the real #? Also, you're correct in what Race wrote and your point about losing because we played for a tie. The reason I'm asking is my youngest son has been asking a lot of questions about that war and I don't have most of the answers.MikeDamone said:
200,000 US soldiers didn’t die. If you’re going to put up stats, at least be accurate.RoadTrip said:
200,000 US soldiers, another 250k S. Vietnamese and 2,000,000 N. Vietnamese died for that tie.RaceBannon said:
The Domino TheoryRoadTrip said:
I had never heard or read about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents before now. I really wish I had paid more attention in my HS history class when we studied the Vietnam war. Can you or somone who has a lot of knowledge about that war explain to me what our concerns were regarding communism taking over in Vietnam?RaceBannon said:
RoswellUW_Doog_Bot said:
I'm actually concerned that this IS the plan. Tim to collect their gains from covid and move "forward" with the next step.RaceBannon said:Remember no flu last year? I do
JFK 1960 wins Illinois
JFK assassinated
Gulf of Tonkin
MLK assassinated
RFK assassinated
OSHA, EPA and the massive expansion of government under the conservative Nixon
Iran
Afghanistan
Iraq1
Iraq2
Covid
The 2020 election
Mandates
Can't wait for what's next
If we were weak anywhere the Red Menace would strike
There was truth in that, see the Carter years, but it was used to justify everything
No one in charge really thought the US could win in Vietnam but they were afraid to lose so they played for a tie
After the war, was Vietnam still divided by the North and South? Communism is the state government there today correct?
Also, it wasn’t a tie. Korea was a tie. Vietnam was an L. Like Afghanistan was an L.
Race didn’t say it ended in a tie. He said the US played for a tie. But that didn’t work out.
Start by telling your son it was a absolute fuck up and if we learned anything is that the government is corrupt and will use whatever is at their disposal to enrich themselves and their friends. Even kills thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of foreigners. Then give him an assignment to compare and contrast the Vietnam war and the COVID pandemic.
If anyone wonders how some of were right about covid in March of 2020, it’s because we remember Vietnam and everything since. The pattern was not going to divert. It never does.
