Career Discussion: Specialist vs Generalist

whlinder

Trying to make this not TL;DR

To this point in my career (18 years in), I have mostly been a Specialist at my company, have done really well, rose through the ranks and am super critical to a wide range of initiatives. I have done some generalist work, and am pretty good at that too (putting my non-TCU MBA to use) but too many things fail if I am not the lead Specialist.

At the same time, the people who do Generalist work suck at it and it drives me nuts. I have the opportunity to transition into a Generalist role, leading a pretty big chunk of the business forward, and taking over P&L responsibility for a major line of business.

I'm intrigued by it because I hate dumb and failure... but also suspect once you leave the specialist side you can never go back....

HFNY

If you ever want to start your own business and / or be a CEO, then do it.

PurpleThrobber

whlinder said:

Trying to make this not TL;DR

To this point in my career (18 years in), I have mostly been a Specialist at my company, have done really well, rose through the ranks and am super critical to a wide range of initiatives. I have done some generalist work, and am pretty good at that too (putting my non-TCU MBA to use) but too many things fail if I am not the lead Specialist.

At the same time, the people who do Generalist work suck at it and it drives me nuts. I have the opportunity to transition into a Generalist role, leading a pretty big chunk of the business forward, and taking over P&L responsibility for a major line of business.

I'm intrigued by it because I hate dumb and failure... but also suspect once you leave the specialist side you can never go back....

The good generalists already left the company to work for themselves.

HHusky

whlinder said:

Trying to make this not TL;DR

To this point in my career (18 years in), I have mostly been a Specialist at my company, have done really well, rose through the ranks and am super critical to a wide range of initiatives. I have done some generalist work, and am pretty good at that too (putting my non-TCU MBA to use) but too many things fail if I am not the lead Specialist.

At the same time, the people who do Generalist work suck at it and it drives me nuts. I have the opportunity to transition into a Generalist role, leading a pretty big chunk of the business forward, and taking over P&L responsibility for a major line of business.

I'm intrigued by it because I hate dumb and failure... but also suspect once you leave the specialist side you can never go back....

People who are good at the generalist/manager/leadership side are rarer, but have higher ceilings and better opportunities than even the best specialists in an organization. I suspect you could always go back to being a specialist, btw. It's more likely that you won't have another opportunity to try your hand at being a generalist.

NorthwestFresh

My brother started out of college as an engineer for SonicCare and now is a Six Sigma black belt who coordinates large project expansions for a major healthcare company.

He made the move about 10 years into his career within Philips and it eventually led to him being able to move from Seattle to Montana 4 years ago.

He volunteered for some “generalist” opportunities at Phillips which in reality expanded his business contact base to levels he never had as a specialist for SonicCare.

Tequilla

Free Pub?

LoneStarDawg

Sounds like senior individual contributor to manager.

If you can handle stress and fighting with people management is fun. you can offload the bitch work to people.

It’s not for everyone though so search yourself and assess your goals. There is no going back without some scars.

creepycoug

However you get there, if you are able to manage people and larger projects, you will make more money and rise faster.

It took me a while to learn this. If you're doing a lot of work, vs. coordinating other people doing a lot of work, your ceiling is limited.

I've been the highly comp'd individual contributor. I like this better. IDGAFF what anyone says to the contrary, you don't work as hard when you're directing traffic. Yeah, it's a different kind of stress, but you get a bigger piece of the pie, you get more advancement opportunity within and outside the company, and, again, I will never believe otherwise than that you don't work as hard.

I would do it.

Pitchfork51

creepycoug said:

However you get there, if you are able to manage people and larger projects, you will make more money and rise faster.

It took me a while to learn this. If you're doing a lot of work, vs. coordinating other people doing a lot of work, your ceiling is limited.

I've been the highly comp'd individual contributor. I like this better. IDGAFF what anyone says to the contrary, you don't work as hard when you're directing traffic. Yeah, it's a different kind of stress, but you get a bigger piece of the pie, you get more advancement opportunity within and outside the company, and, again, I will never believe otherwise than that you don't work as hard.

I would do it.

Exactly this. It's why I don't think I'd work in a large company anytime soon. Just so many more opportunities being able to make a larger impact at smaller ones.

creepycoug

LoneStarDawg said:

Sounds like senior individual contributor to manager.

If you can handle stress and fighting with people management is fun. you can offload the bitch work to people.

It’s not for everyone though so search yourself and assess your goals. There is no going back without some scars.

Yep. Every word of that is true.

RaceBannon

I have never heard it in these fancy terms but leaders are hard to find and good leaders even harder so it pays better. Lots of folks can do the grunt work. Most of them think they want to be the boss. Until they get a taste of it.

I've been told I am a natural leader and I reckon its true since I have always been the leader and jumped to the pros from high school. But starting out it was tough because you do have to get used to being hated and you have to tell people shit they don't want to hear. I developed a thick skin for an old hippie who thought most people were decent and honest. Boy was that wrong

As a bonus 40 years ago in construction there was a physical component. My first management position had some big fuck with a big mouth who thought he could get over. I challenged him to a fight in front of the whole crew. Thank God he backed down. I've always been lucky that way.

I don't think you can fight people in 2021. Not sure though

creepycoug

RaceBannon said:

I have never heard it in these fancy terms but leaders are hard to find and good leaders even harder so it pays better. Lots of folks can do the grunt work. Most of them think they want to be the boss. Until they get a taste of it.

I've been told I am a natural leader and I reckon its true since I have always been the leader and jumped to the pros from high school. But starting out it was tough because you do have to get used to being hated and you have to tell people shit they don't want to hear. I developed a thick skin for an old hippie who thought most people were decent and honest. Boy was that wrong

As a bonus 40 years ago in construction there was a physical component. My first management position had some big fuck with a big mouth who thought he could get over. I challenged him to a fight in front of the whole crew. Thank God he backed down. I've always been lucky that way.

I don't think you can fight people in 2021. Not sure though

My father-in-law is a testament to the physical and tuff component. He worked big civic construction projects ... bridges, buildings, shit like that. He's 85 years old with developing Alzheimers and is physically a shell of the man he was. And, still, he gives my brother-in-law shit whenever he sees him ... I mean real, test-your-manhood, shit that my 6'6", 240+ lbs BIL would not take from any other human being. The old guy has no subtlety. He's as straight-forward as a pissed-off badger. He's also an old Bobcat, and we're an incestuous bunch and all know each other. Everyone says the old guy was a sweetheart in HS. The job made him that way. He would always say back in the day "two kinds - those that give and those that take shit. I know which kind I am."

Of course you're a leader. Half of us here follow you around like a lost puppy dog and value your chins more than we do our own parents' approval. Even when you let us know we're rubbing you the wrong way.


@MikeSeaver

RaceBannon

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

I have never heard it in these fancy terms but leaders are hard to find and good leaders even harder so it pays better. Lots of folks can do the grunt work. Most of them think they want to be the boss. Until they get a taste of it.

I've been told I am a natural leader and I reckon its true since I have always been the leader and jumped to the pros from high school. But starting out it was tough because you do have to get used to being hated and you have to tell people shit they don't want to hear. I developed a thick skin for an old hippie who thought most people were decent and honest. Boy was that wrong

As a bonus 40 years ago in construction there was a physical component. My first management position had some big fuck with a big mouth who thought he could get over. I challenged him to a fight in front of the whole crew. Thank God he backed down. I've always been lucky that way.

I don't think you can fight people in 2021. Not sure though

My father-in-law is a testament to the physical and tuff component. He worked big civic construction projects ... bridges, buildings, shit like that. He's 85 years old with developing Alzheimers and is physically a shell of the man he was. And, still, he gives my brother-in-law shit whenever he sees him ... I mean real, test-your-manhood, shit that my 6'6", 240+ lbs BIL would not take from any other human being. The old guy has no subtlety. He's as straight-forward as a pissed-off badger. He's also an old Bobcat, and we're an incestuous bunch and all know each other. Everyone says the old guy was a sweetheart in HS. The job made him that way. He would always say back in the day "two kinds - those that give and those that take shit. I know which kind I am."

Of course you're a leader. Half of us here follow you around like a lost puppy dog and value your chins more than we do our own parents' approval. Even when you let us know we're rubbing you the wrong way.


@MikeSeaver

As I was entering my mid life crises my wife and I were sitting out having a drink and I got to reminiscing. I said I had worked so hard to play the asshole that I don't think I'm playing anymore and I don't really like that. Of course she agreed. That's the other half. She loved the pay but hated the toll it took. You don't work a 40 hour week. A lot needs to happen off hours and weekend along with the regular weekday shit.

She would over hear some phone calls and ask me how can you be so mean. Because they have proven that is what they will respond to. I was a Jimmy Johnson type coach. If you were an all star you could smoke weed and talk all the shit you want. If you weren't and fell asleep you're fired.

I had one real rule - I get a phone call about you our get in trouble for something you did and you're fired. I ended up with great crews. Winners. But it is far from easy

creepycoug

RaceBannon said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

I have never heard it in these fancy terms but leaders are hard to find and good leaders even harder so it pays better. Lots of folks can do the grunt work. Most of them think they want to be the boss. Until they get a taste of it.

I've been told I am a natural leader and I reckon its true since I have always been the leader and jumped to the pros from high school. But starting out it was tough because you do have to get used to being hated and you have to tell people shit they don't want to hear. I developed a thick skin for an old hippie who thought most people were decent and honest. Boy was that wrong

As a bonus 40 years ago in construction there was a physical component. My first management position had some big fuck with a big mouth who thought he could get over. I challenged him to a fight in front of the whole crew. Thank God he backed down. I've always been lucky that way.

I don't think you can fight people in 2021. Not sure though

My father-in-law is a testament to the physical and tuff component. He worked big civic construction projects ... bridges, buildings, shit like that. He's 85 years old with developing Alzheimers and is physically a shell of the man he was. And, still, he gives my brother-in-law shit whenever he sees him ... I mean real, test-your-manhood, shit that my 6'6", 240+ lbs BIL would not take from any other human being. The old guy has no subtlety. He's as straight-forward as a pissed-off badger. He's also an old Bobcat, and we're an incestuous bunch and all know each other. Everyone says the old guy was a sweetheart in HS. The job made him that way. He would always say back in the day "two kinds - those that give and those that take shit. I know which kind I am."

Of course you're a leader. Half of us here follow you around like a lost puppy dog and value your chins more than we do our own parents' approval. Even when you let us know we're rubbing you the wrong way.


@MikeSeaver

As I was entering my mid life crises my wife and I were sitting out having a drink and I got to reminiscing. I said I had worked so hard to play the asshole that I don't think I'm playing anymore and I don't really like that. Of course she agreed. That's the other half. She loved the pay but hated the toll it took. You don't work a 40 hour week. A lot needs to happen off hours and weekend along with the regular weekday shit.

She would over hear some phone calls and ask me how can you be so mean. Because they have proven that is what they will respond to. I was a Jimmy Johnson type coach. If you were an all star you could smoke weed and talk all the shit you want. If you weren't and fell asleep you're fired.

I had one real rule - I get a phone call about you our get in trouble for something you did and you're fired. I ended up with great crews. Winners. But it is far from easy

I'm on 7 days a week and sleep with my cell phone by my head. When the CEO wants to talk to his lawyer, the lawyer is available. Period. I knew long ago I wasn't getting paid for 40 hours and weekends (or vacas) off. I once spent 1/2 a vaca in a hotel room helping one of our outside board members (the guy was a Finance luminary before dying two years ago ... a Munger contemporary) on what was technically and entirely personal shit with his accountants. I literally stayed inside the room half the vacation while the kids were out by the pool with the wife helping this guy build the case that his accountants fucked up so he could fire them a week later. Completely outside of my role as counsel to the company. But, reality is what it is.

The wife would come back to the room, "you're still on the phone?" I love that question, especially when I am ostensibly still on the fucking phone.

One time in my entire life did I not do work calls. In 2014, my wife and girls and I spent 21 days in Italy and France. I just told everybody "i'm out" and magically it happened. Europe tends to give you more cover.

Honestly I've had to adapt my management style to individual personalities. I think managing men in the building/construction/collateral services business is its own animal and no doubt requires tuffness.

Favorite line from The Town: "This is definitely the no fucking around crew."

RaceBannon

My mom and I took a trip to the Ohio State game in 95 and in those ancient times I'd phone the office when we stopped

She said it didn't sound like much of a vacation

I said now you know why your son is separated going to the game with you

We did get back together

YellowSnow

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

I have never heard it in these fancy terms but leaders are hard to find and good leaders even harder so it pays better. Lots of folks can do the grunt work. Most of them think they want to be the boss. Until they get a taste of it.

I've been told I am a natural leader and I reckon its true since I have always been the leader and jumped to the pros from high school. But starting out it was tough because you do have to get used to being hated and you have to tell people shit they don't want to hear. I developed a thick skin for an old hippie who thought most people were decent and honest. Boy was that wrong

As a bonus 40 years ago in construction there was a physical component. My first management position had some big fuck with a big mouth who thought he could get over. I challenged him to a fight in front of the whole crew. Thank God he backed down. I've always been lucky that way.

I don't think you can fight people in 2021. Not sure though

My father-in-law is a testament to the physical and tuff component. He worked big civic construction projects ... bridges, buildings, shit like that. He's 85 years old with developing Alzheimers and is physically a shell of the man he was. And, still, he gives my brother-in-law shit whenever he sees him ... I mean real, test-your-manhood, shit that my 6'6", 240+ lbs BIL would not take from any other human being. The old guy has no subtlety. He's as straight-forward as a pissed-off badger. He's also an old Bobcat, and we're an incestuous bunch and all know each other. Everyone says the old guy was a sweetheart in HS. The job made him that way. He would always say back in the day "two kinds - those that give and those that take shit. I know which kind I am."

Of course you're a leader. Half of us here follow you around like a lost puppy dog and value your chins more than we do our own parents' approval. Even when you let us know we're rubbing you the wrong way.


@MikeSeaver

As I was entering my mid life crises my wife and I were sitting out having a drink and I got to reminiscing. I said I had worked so hard to play the asshole that I don't think I'm playing anymore and I don't really like that. Of course she agreed. That's the other half. She loved the pay but hated the toll it took. You don't work a 40 hour week. A lot needs to happen off hours and weekend along with the regular weekday shit.

She would over hear some phone calls and ask me how can you be so mean. Because they have proven that is what they will respond to. I was a Jimmy Johnson type coach. If you were an all star you could smoke weed and talk all the shit you want. If you weren't and fell asleep you're fired.

I had one real rule - I get a phone call about you our get in trouble for something you did and you're fired. I ended up with great crews. Winners. But it is far from easy

I'm on 7 days a week and sleep with my cell phone by my head. When the CEO wants to talk to his lawyer, the lawyer is available. Period. I knew long ago I wasn't getting paid for 40 hours and weekends (or vacas) off. I once spent 1/2 a vaca in a hotel room helping one of our outside board members (the guy was a Finance luminary before dying two years ago ... a Munger contemporary) on what was technically and entirely personal shit with his accountants. I literally stayed inside the room half the vacation while the kids were out by the pool with the wife helping this guy build the case that his accountants fucked up so he could fire them a week later. Completely outside of my role as counsel to the company. But, reality is what it is.

The wife would come back to the room, "you're still on the phone?" I love that question, especially when I am ostensibly still on the fucking phone.

One time in my entire life did I not do work calls. In 2014, my wife and girls and I spent 21 days in Italy and France. I just told everybody "i'm out" and magically it happened. Europe tends to give you more cover.

Honestly I've had to adapt my management style to individual personalities. I think managing men in the building/construction/collateral services business is its own animal and no doubt requires tuffness.

Favorite line from The Town: "This is definitely the no fucking around crew."

This is why I never applied to Harvard Law.