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51% of mass shooters in 2019 were black, 29% were white, and 11% were Latino.

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  • GrundleStiltzkin
    GrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,516 Standard Supporter
    Swaye said:

    HHusky said:



    So how hard is it, and how hard should it be, for an individual to get an AR-15? Obviously, I'm not troubled that you have one or even that probably the vast majority of those who have them do. Sled doesn't want crazies to have them either, but has also stated his opposition to "red flag" laws.

    I am not opposed to more stringent background checks and limited laws to remove guns from people who have demonstrated mental health issues for short durations until accurate mental state assessments can be made. So I will give you two answers here, since we are discussing two different issues.

    The issue all gun advocates have is, in the case of background check strengthening, that we really do not believe that is the end game. I think until politicians, whom I loathe, on both sides can have honest debates about their respective end games on gun control, there can be no quarter given. It's the opposite spectrum of the abortion debate - I don't think most reasonable liberals actually believe that aborting babies at birth is a good thing, but they also believe, and perhaps rightly so, that if they give in on ANYTHING, it's starts the slippery slope and the next thing you know abortion is mostly illegal because the pro life contingent has chipped away so long and hard that it is now basically not a right. That is precisely how gun advocates feel - most even ardent gun supporters I know believe in strong and effective background checks, and in some cases even gun safety classes. But if we give in there, next year it will be licensing, then the next year registration, then the next year banning type mentality. And I can't say I disagree with that position. In my perfect world we would have strong background checks and requirements for gun safety training, but never licensing or registration. I don't believe it infringes on your rights to take a class to learn to properly use a firearm. That said, I have zero faith if we gave in on on this point that Nancy Pelosi would say "welp, ok, we did it and got ironclad background checks and safety training, we're done here..." I can say this, I do not want felons or people who beat their wives routinely owning guns. Period. Full stop.

    The red flag laws are super tricky. Here's why. I do not want any imbalanced person to have access to firepower. That said, I see so many ways this could be taken advantage of. Some wife gets dumped. Nothing abusive is happening but she's pissed. Call the cops and say "he threatened to hurt me and himself." Bam, dudes guns are gone for 90 days and he is in court petitioning for his right to get them back, after paying huge fees to do so. Liberal counties would make the list of requirements for resolution almost impossible to abide by. At the same time, some mechanism must exist whereby some assclown who is writing death threats to people, and it is proven, has their guns taken away by force if necessary. So this one is tricky and I don't have the answer. Whatever system is devised MUST be impartial, and expeditious, and not create undue burden on the gun owner - because we all know there will be abuse in any system like this. It must also be effective at keeping guns out of the hand of legit crazy fucks who want to go harm people. Tough nut.
    Swaye gets it.
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  • UW_Doog_Bot
    UW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 18,545 Founders Club
    I reneg on my earlier accusation @HHusky, you are having an earnest and reasonable conversation in good faith, or you are the best troll. Either way, I applaud you. @Swaye is doing an excellent job here so I'll save further thoughts other than to say that even if you are on the "side" of further gun controls it becomes a very problematic issue as a policy wonk. The details of legislation are a huge bitch very few actually want to tackle. Even states that have the most stringent of controls end up with mass shootings and not just because of guns coming across state lines. This is the part where the Dems pound the table and then never do anything bc 1) it's actually a really hard problem to fix and 2) it serves them better to do nothing and keep the base angry at the GOP/NRA.
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  • GrundleStiltzkin
    GrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,516 Standard Supporter
    UW_Doog_Bot said:

    I reneg on my earlier accusation @HHusky, you are having an earnest and reasonable conversation in good faith, or you are the best troll. Either way, I applaud you. @Swaye is doing an excellent job here so I'll save further thoughts other than to say that even if you are on the "side" of further gun controls it becomes a very problematic issue as a policy wonk. The details of legislation are a huge bitch very few actually want to tackle. Even states that have the most stringent of controls end up with mass shootings and not just because of guns coming across state lines. This is the part where the Dems pound the table and then never do anything bc 1) it's actually a really hard problem to fix and 2) it serves them better to do nothing and keep the base angry at the GOP/NRA.

    Yeah, he might have be actually ignorant of the numbers, facts, math etc. of the issue.
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  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,188
    edited August 2019
    dnc said:

    SFGbob said:

    dnc said:

    SFGbob said:

    And you still can't even say if a person who commits more violent crime is more dangerous than person who doesn't commit violent crime nor can you answer the question about if there are more poor whites than poor blacks.

    You're just stating your feelings.

    We already agreed there are more poor whites.

    Are you even reading this thread?
    Great, then if there are more poor whites why aren't more whites than blacks arrested for murder?
    Because black people are more dangerous and there is no other explanation.
    But you feel that poor whites are more dangerous. I could be a Kunt and claim that you feel this way on account of their white skin but I'm not a Kunt.
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  • Fire_Marshall_Bill
    Fire_Marshall_Bill Member Posts: 26,096 Standard Supporter
    Blacks are usually targeting rival gangs. It's fucked up but what's disturbing is the mass shooters who target innocents.
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  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,855
    Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

    Blacks are usually targeting rival gangs. It's fucked up but what's disturbing is the mass shooters who target innocents.

    ding ding ding
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  • CirrhosisDawg
    CirrhosisDawg Member Posts: 6,390
    @YellowSnow called me “Altadena Bob” last week.

    I am ashamed.
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  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,188
    UW_Doog_Bot said:

    SFGbob said:

    dnc said:

    SFGbob said:

    dnc said:

    SFGbob said:

    And you still can't even say if a person who commits more violent crime is more dangerous than person who doesn't commit violent crime nor can you answer the question about if there are more poor whites than poor blacks.

    You're just stating your feelings.

    We already agreed there are more poor whites.

    Are you even reading this thread?
    Great, then if there are more poor whites why aren't more whites than blacks arrested for murder?
    Because black people are more dangerous and there is no other explanation.
    But you feel that poor white are more dangerous.
    Christ man, this is part of why no one takes you seriously. You rival StrongArm in inability to take an L or give a charitable interpretation of someone's argument.

    You'd do yourself a favor if you spent just a bit more time picking your battles than picking fucking nits.
    What the fuck are you talking about? That was you're fucking argument. You had no facts you had no data, by your own admission you were just stating your feelings. Go ahead Kunt, the W is all yours. You win who can emote the best.
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