Early Pete > Early Dabo

Dabo Year 3.5 (2011)
- 10 & 4 overall; 6- 2 in ACC
- 2nd place in ACC
- plungered in Orange Bowl 33- 70 by WVU
- #22 final ranking

Pete Year 3

-12 & 2 overall; 8- 1 in PAC;
- win conference title
- lose CFP semi-final by 17 pts to (soon to be) #2 Alabama
- #4 Final AP rank

2016 Washington > 2011 Climpson

Dabo is obviously an elite coach and has a Natty (after only 8 seasons for trying for crying out loud) in the trophy case, but Pete's early returns are objectively better. And I would argue Pete stepped into a harder "return a program to dominance" job than Dabo.

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GrundleStiltzkin

Transitive property and all.

But still...

TTJ

Pressing.

There are better comps for Pete than Dabo.

Tequilla

What's the standard for an elite coach?

If it's a national championship, that's a slippery slope ... are we prepared to call coaches like Larry Coker or Gene Chizik elite because they won national championships?

tenndawg

Transitive property and all.

But still...

Fuck those weak "Doog It Up" bitches

This is how it's done, full on Electric Hulk Mega Doog style

YellowSnow

@Tequilla well, of course, you can't just use a Natty as the only qualifier. Coker basically inherited on of the great college teams of all time. Chizik had Cam. Other key requirements would be:

1) Sustained Level of Success - e.g., Dabo's had 6 x 10 + win seasons in a row now and 5 straight bowl wins. 2 back to back title game appearances.

2) Raising a program of above its normal historical level of success - Dabo has done this at Clemson. Chip never won a NT but he took Oregon to a level they'd never dreamed of, and, I, for one don't seem them being able to return to.

3) Winning big time games against other "Elite" coaches and programs - Dabo took down Meyer and Saban in back to back games this year. Beat Stoops last year and almost knocked off Saban last year.

bananasnblondes

What's the standard for an elite coach?

If it's a national championship, that's a slippery slope ... are we prepared to call coaches like Larry Coker or Gene Chizik elite because they won national championships?

I'd say, in this day and age, building a program to the point where it is in the national title discussion most years and maintaining that status throughout their tenure makes a coach elite. I don't even know if winning a national title is a necessity. I would say Chip Kelly was an elite college coach.

Tequilla

Thanks for the thoughtful responses ...

I think it's important to define what success looks like ...

Dabo's results speak for themselves ... for some reason I don't view him as elite (probably because he's got too much cheerleader in him) ... but again, hard to argue.

I do think Dabo benefits a lot from being in an area where there are a number of high end recruits ...

I do think Dabo benefits from South Carolina definitely being down, the SEC East generally being viewed as shit, the North Carolina schools not being in a spot where they lock down key recruits in the state, Virginia Tech in the last few years of Beamer struggling a bit creating some recruiting voids, Miami largely being down over the last 5-10 years opening up some areas of Florida, and Georgia Tech running an option program that targets a specific kind of player opening the door potentially to a handful of recruits out of Georgia that maybe they wouldn't have gotten 20 years ago. I definitely haven't studied it in full to determine how much of that is real or perception.

But in a lot of ways, Clemson has a lot of similar attributes to Washington from a football playing perspective. Usually when our high end has been achieved it has been due to having the right caliber coach in place with some kind of void being present in the PAC (right now the void is looking like UCLA). I think Clemson's in a similar position right now where they have the right coach for them and some significant voids around them allowing them to build themselves up.

One thing I think is also important to keep in mind is that the ACC as a whole is getting more and more competitive ... sneaky opinion alert is that I would say that the ACC may have been the best conference this year top to bottom. This will test Dabo going forward.

Ice_Holmvik

Jesus dude. Every fucking time.

Doogles

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YellowSnow

The Clemson story is obviously intriguing because they are the one non-traditional powerhouse program to win a NT in decades (BTW, I'm not sure how to classify Auburn - i.e., powerhouse or one-off with Cam Newton?) and they've done it without the top 10 recruiting classes you see year in, year from the big boys. Clemson's last 4 classes (according the bankrupt website) have been 16, 15, 28, and 12. And now we're starting to play in that top 15- 20 range recruiting-wise as well, combined with (mostly) great coaching, player development, etc. Petersen's system should get us to the point where we can be a legit national title contender.

BrickSquad

Pressing.

There are better comps for Pete than Dabo.

Couldn't of used a cuter girl instead of this dyke?

Tequilla

Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:

PAC12

USC
Washington
UCLA

Big 12

Oklahoma
Texas

Big 10

Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin

SEC

Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee

ACC

Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech

It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.

YellowSnow

Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:

PAC12

USC
Washington
UCLA

Big 12

Oklahoma
Texas

Big 10

Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin

SEC

Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee

ACC

Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech

It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.

No ASU? Ha ha

creepycoug

Dabo Year 3.5 (2011)
- 10 & 4 overall; 6- 2 in ACC
- 2nd place in ACC
- plungered in Orange Bowl 33- 70 by WVU
- #22 final ranking

Pete Year 3

-12 & 2 overall; 8- 1 in weakest PAC in years;
- win conference title
- plungered, anal assaulted, bung hole bombarded and generally outclassed by an Alabama team with a retard QB and no big-play receivers who coasted through a down SEC confrunce
- #4 Final generous AP rank based on reputation and name

2016 Washington > 2011 Climpson

Dabo is obviously an elite coach and has a Natty (after only 8 seasons for trying for crying out loud) in the trophy case, but Pete's early returns are objectively better; and by "objectively", I mean in my head. And I would argue Pete stepped into a harder "return a program to dominance" job than Dabo.

Did a little truth editing for you. No charge. You're welcome.

creepycoug

Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:

PAC12

USC
Washington
UCLA

Big 12

Oklahoma
Texas

Big 10

Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin

SEC

Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee

ACC

Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech

It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.

Look, I know you're fucking stupid. But all Cane joking aside, do you not realize that, even though they have been tripping over their lips for the last 14 years, Miami still has more impact players in the NFL than ANY OTHER PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY? Yes, more than LSU, Ohio State, USC, Alabama, Florida State ... any of them. And most of the 2001 guys are out of the league now.

As shitty as they've been, and they have been butt stink shitty, they routinely throw first, second and third round guys into the NFL, and those guys blow the fuck up when they get there.

How is it that you can't perceive a scenario where THAT program, with all its history and accomplishment, can't consistently compete for a title, but Texas can???????? Texas has all the shit you listed, and has always had it, and look at them. Before 2005, nobody under the age of 40 knew that they had ever been good. And 2005 was 12 years ago and they haven't done shit since.

It ain't about the money dummy. Oregon has proven that. It ain't about the size of your stadium and how many asses are in the seats. Michigan has proven that. Nebraska has proven that.

It's about who you can recruit and who is coaching them. Alabama has proven that. USC has proven that. LSU has proven that. Florida State has proven that.

Pitchfork51

Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:

PAC12

USC
Washington
UCLA

Big 12

Oklahoma
Texas

Big 10

Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin

SEC

Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee

ACC

Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech

It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.
No ASU? Ha ha

Hey fuck you

Tequilla

Miami hasn't been a consistent national player in 15 years now ...

For the reasons you mentioned is why I have them on the list as one of the approx 20 programs where national championships aren't surprising ...

There are a lot of really good programs that I don't have on the list

creepycoug

Miami hasn't been a consistent national player in 15 years now ...

For the reasons you mentioned is why I have them on the list as one of the approx 20 programs where national championships aren't surprising ...

There are a lot of really good programs that I don't have on the list

Except you included Penn State, Notre Dame and Texas. If the standard is "consistent national player," there really are only a handful of schools you can list. Everyone disappears for a while. USC was gone in the 90s, came back from 2000 until they blew up mid-decade, and are working their way back again.

There has been nothing consistent about Notre Dame since the late 80s.

Texas, putting them there is 100% on potential, and you know it, because there is simply nothing else to point to. And once you go there, Miami HAS to be included because of their history and because of who they can get in the door w/o even trying.

Of that list, if "consistent national player" is the standard, whatever the fuck that means, you really only have Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and, stretching a bit, Oklahoma and Florida State. That is it.

I actually don't mind these topics, but you bumble fucked this one with the stupid "blue blood" thing. It's not real. It doesn't translate on the field. It's a fan thing.

2001400ex

Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:

PAC12

USC
Washington
UCLA

Big 12

Oklahoma
Texas

Big 10

Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin

SEC

Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee

ACC

Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech

It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.
Look, I know you're fucking stupid. But all Cane joking aside, do you not realize that, even though they have been tripping over their lips for the last 14 years, Miami still has more impact players in the NFL than ANY OTHER PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY? Yes, more than LSU, Ohio State, USC, Alabama, Florida State ... any of them. And most of the 2001 guys are out of the league now.

As shitty as they've been, and they have been butt stink shitty, they routinely throw first, second and third round guys into the NFL, and those guys blow the fuck up when they get there.

How is it that you can't perceive a scenario where THAT program, with all its history and accomplishment, can't consistently compete for a title, but Texas can???????? Texas has all the shit you listed, and has always had it, and look at them. Before 2005, nobody under the age of 40 knew that they had ever been good. And 2005 was 12 years ago and they haven't done shit since.

It ain't about the money dummy. Oregon has proven that. It ain't about the size of your stadium and how many asses are in the seats. Michigan has proven that. Nebraska has proven that.

It's about who you can recruit and who is coaching them. Alabama has proven that. USC has proven that. LSU has proven that. Florida State has proven that.

Are you saying Miami football is like UW basketball?

Tequilla

Notre Dame was in the National Title Game in the last 5-7 years and been in the hunt a few other years.

Texas always has the talent and resources ... when everything is working right with them they have as high of a ceiling as anybody.

Penn St has a very fertile recruiting ground and insane levels of support.

All 3 have had SIGNIFCANT periods of success throughout history ... their success is a question of not IF but WHEN ...

Miami had about a 20 year run from the early 80s through early 00s where they were at an elite level ... before that nothing and after that above average. I wouldn't claim that anybody that thinks Miami is a blue blood is insane ... but it's certainly very debatable.

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