Who wins this Pac-12 Final Four?

DerekJohnson

dnc

A or D, the other two teams wouldn't have a chance. And Billups and Van Horne never played in the Pac, they don't deserve to be on there.

Doogles

I'm biased, but I'm going with the backcourt of Westbrook and Roy. (A)

D would probably win. Kidd and Jabar are top level HOFers.

RaceBannon

D

Kareem


nuff said on that

dnc

RaceBannon said:

D

Kareem


nuff said on that

D's just decent at the other three positions but Kareem has the one thing he needs, a great pass first point guard.

You're right, they don't lose.

I do think A would try and run them out of the gym.

dnc

Holy crap c is terrible. They got stuck with three of the six "every team needs a representative team so even though there are better options well put them here" guys.

greenblood

D wins hands down. Teams A and B have no chance of putting a body on Kareem. C does have some bodies in Gibson and Lopez, that at the very least could limit Kareem from scoring 50. However, team C would get eaten up by D in the backcourt. Brooks and Miller would get absolutely blasted by Kidd and Scott. Kidd in his prime was an absolute stud defensively, and Byron Scott was a very underrated defender too. I do like the Gary Payton and Billups combo on team B. That is a sneaky beastly backcourt, but Love is a defensive nightmare for his own team, and Ike Diogu is well...Ike Diogu

Team C matchup wise might give team D the best game by losing by 15-20 points, but they would get destroyed by teams A and B.

No kidding DNC... Aaron Brooks? Seriously? Terrell Brandon would have been a better option from Oregon.

Also, why is Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye representing Arizona, when Gilbert Arenas and Andre Iguodala are far better options?

dnc

greenblood said:

D wins hands down. Teams A and B have no chance of putting a body on Kareem. C does have some bodies in Gibson and Lopez, that at the very least could limit Kareem from scoring 50. However, team C would get eaten up by D in the backcourt. Brooks and Miller would get absolutely blasted by Kidd and Scott. Kidd in his prime was an absolute stud defensively, and Byron Scott was a very underrated defender too. I do like the Gary Payton and Billups combo on team B. That is a sneaky beastly backcourt, but Love is a defensive nightmare for his own team, and Ike Diogu is well...Ike Diogu

Team C matchup wise might give team D the best game by losing by 15-20 points, but they would get destroyed by teams A and B.

Yep, A's only chance would be to run D off the court. They have the athletes to do it though. They can run 1-5 and they could rotate three different long, quick defenders on Kidd to try and keep him from feeding Kareem. But yeah everytime Kareem touched it it would be two points.

The whole exercise is pointless without Walton though. How you make a list like this without at worst the second the best player in league history is a joke.

RaceBannon

Good point on Walton

greenblood

dnc said:

greenblood said:

D wins hands down. Teams A and B have no chance of putting a body on Kareem. C does have some bodies in Gibson and Lopez, that at the very least could limit Kareem from scoring 50. However, team C would get eaten up by D in the backcourt. Brooks and Miller would get absolutely blasted by Kidd and Scott. Kidd in his prime was an absolute stud defensively, and Byron Scott was a very underrated defender too. I do like the Gary Payton and Billups combo on team B. That is a sneaky beastly backcourt, but Love is a defensive nightmare for his own team, and Ike Diogu is well...Ike Diogu

Team C matchup wise might give team D the best game by losing by 15-20 points, but they would get destroyed by teams A and B.

Yep, A's only chance would be to run D off the court. They have the athletes to do it though. They can run 1-5 and they could rotate three different long, quick defenders on Kidd to try and keep him from feeding Kareem. But yeah everytime Kareem touched it it would be two points.

The whole exercise is pointless without Walton though. How you make a list like this without at worst the second the best player in league history is a joke.

Totally agree on Walton. But Arenas, and Iguodala are also obvious snubs. Give me Terrell Brandon over Aaron Brooks any day.

greenblood

Ed Obannon also cracks me up. He had a good college career but absolutely sucked in the pros. You put Obannon up against these guys, and he'd been absolutely exposed.

dnc

greenblood said:

dnc said:

greenblood said:

D wins hands down. Teams A and B have no chance of putting a body on Kareem. C does have some bodies in Gibson and Lopez, that at the very least could limit Kareem from scoring 50. However, team C would get eaten up by D in the backcourt. Brooks and Miller would get absolutely blasted by Kidd and Scott. Kidd in his prime was an absolute stud defensively, and Byron Scott was a very underrated defender too. I do like the Gary Payton and Billups combo on team B. That is a sneaky beastly backcourt, but Love is a defensive nightmare for his own team, and Ike Diogu is well...Ike Diogu

Team C matchup wise might give team D the best game by losing by 15-20 points, but they would get destroyed by teams A and B.

Yep, A's only chance would be to run D off the court. They have the athletes to do it though. They can run 1-5 and they could rotate three different long, quick defenders on Kidd to try and keep him from feeding Kareem. But yeah everytime Kareem touched it it would be two points.

The whole exercise is pointless without Walton though. How you make a list like this without at worst the second the best player in league history is a joke.

Totally agree on Walton. But Arenas, and Iguodala are also obvious snubs. Give me Terrell Brandon over Aaron Brooks any day.

I get that they didn't want it to just be the UCLA and Arizona all stars so I'm not too broken up over Arenas and Igoudala, who would be just borderline based on their college play. Actually I'd argue Bibby and Terry were better collegiates than either of them anyway.

But you can't leave Walton off. That's inexcusable.

IPukeOregonGrellow

D, B, A, C. Swap in Terrell Brandon for Aaron Brooks and C jumps A. Whatever team you put Walton instantly becomes the silver medalist.

dnc

greenblood said:

Ed Obannon also cracks me up. He had a good college career but absolutely sucked in the pros. You put Obannon up against these guys, and he'd been absolutely exposed.

Shouldn't this be based on what they did in college? If it's based on their pro careers Andre Miller is the Ute over KVH, Gus Williams is the Trojan over Gibson (actually he should be anyway) (or if it's just collegiate maybe Harold Minor, either way Gibson's a joke), and hell, Schrempf's probably the Husky over Roy (debatable since Roy's peak was much higher but his career was way shorter).

I think you have to view this just through the lens of their time in college.

dnc

IPukeOregonGrellow said:

D, B, A, C. Swap in Terrell Brandon for Aaron Brooks and C jumps A. Whatever team you put Walton instantly becomes the silver medalist.

Put Walton on A over Frye and they destroy everybody.

IPukeOregonGrellow

dnc said:

Put Walton on A over Frye and they destroy everybody.

I'd think you'd want Frye at power forward and Walton at center in that situation. The strength is wing defense and Frye gives them the modern stretch 4 they need.

B would still be a tough challenge since they're the most modern team, with four capable shooters around the best point guard in the competition. Give them the chance to pick up Frye instead of Diogu and they become tougher.

C has the fatal flaw of having the second worst player in the competition in Brooks, which makes me question the squad selection process. With Brandon, you get a former Pac-10 player of the year who also was a really good NBA player before his knee buckled. Miller's scoring, Gibson's post defense and Elliott's point forward ability give them a chance.

D is simply Kareem with the best player in the competition and is also the team whose weakest link is the strongest.

Tequilla

dnc said:

greenblood said:

D wins hands down. Teams A and B have no chance of putting a body on Kareem. C does have some bodies in Gibson and Lopez, that at the very least could limit Kareem from scoring 50. However, team C would get eaten up by D in the backcourt. Brooks and Miller would get absolutely blasted by Kidd and Scott. Kidd in his prime was an absolute stud defensively, and Byron Scott was a very underrated defender too. I do like the Gary Payton and Billups combo on team B. That is a sneaky beastly backcourt, but Love is a defensive nightmare for his own team, and Ike Diogu is well...Ike Diogu

Team C matchup wise might give team D the best game by losing by 15-20 points, but they would get destroyed by teams A and B.

The whole exercise is pointless without Walton though. How you make a list like this without at worst the second the best player in league history is a joke.

This with a fucking bullet.

I get trying to limit the rosters to ensure that it's not just littered as a UCLA All-Star game. But you could make an argument that Walton wasn't just the second best player in league history, he may have been the second best player in college basketball history.

I don't think most people realize how good a healthy Bill Walton was.

backthepack

O'bannon over Walton is a joke!

TTJ

Okay, I'll play along. Gimme B.

allpurpleallgold

I'm not even going to count the team with Kareem. How in the fuck they got Kidd and Kareem is ridiculous.

Team B beats Team C and slaughters Team A. Team A has no one to guard Diogu and Westbrook wasn't that good in college and you're talking about throwing GP on him. Brooks fucks team C going against Billups/GP. Case closed.

*edit
By the way team B has Love throwing outlet passes to Gary fucking Payton and Chauncey Billups on the break. They're dumping on those teams.

dnc

Good point on Loves outlet passes