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College Basketball
RoadDawg55
Member Posts: 30,123
What a fucking dreckfest. It seems to get worse every year. I watched a portion of UNC - Louisville last week. I had heard of two players on the floor for North Carolina. Sportscenter and other highlight shows barely even show college basketball because nobody gives a fuck about it. North Carolina was the #2 team entering the game too.
Is anyone here a big enough college basketball fan to name 15 players? Could anyone name ten Pac 12 players outside of UW without looking it up? A few years ago I could have probably named 50. I know DNC, Chavez, and others who followed hoops would have been able to 5-10 years ago. I don't even know any of the great freshman besides Simmons at LSU.
Less than 10 years ago we had Derrick Rose, CDR, and Memphis facing off against a Kansas team made up entirely of NBA players. They weren't one and dones either. That Kansas team had guys that stayed at least 3 years. Anyone else remember the great Duke vs Maryland matchups? Jay Williams, Dunleavy, Boozer, Dixon, Blake, Wilcox, etc. There is nothing even remotely close to that in today's college basketball and hasn't been for 5+ years. Kansas with Hinrich and Collison against a Melo led Syracuse?
Even in the Pac 12. Is there anything this season even close to as interesting to when IT and UW faced off against Derrick Williams and Arizona? The early Romar teams facing Salim Stoudemire, Channing Frye, Hassein Adams, and Arizona? The really good Stanford teams with Childress and that fucking annoying, tough latino PG? Even the years UW wasn't that great, the other teams were entertaining. Stanford had the Lopez twins, WSU was solid, UCLA made multiple final fours, USC had some good squads under Floyd.
It's time to go to the baseball model because CBB truly fucking sucks. Let them go pro out of high school, but if they come to college make them play three years. This isn't even some "back in my day" or "get off my lawn" stuff. It doesn't even have much to do with UW although them being good would make things better. CBB truly fucking sucks.
Is anyone here a big enough college basketball fan to name 15 players? Could anyone name ten Pac 12 players outside of UW without looking it up? A few years ago I could have probably named 50. I know DNC, Chavez, and others who followed hoops would have been able to 5-10 years ago. I don't even know any of the great freshman besides Simmons at LSU.
Less than 10 years ago we had Derrick Rose, CDR, and Memphis facing off against a Kansas team made up entirely of NBA players. They weren't one and dones either. That Kansas team had guys that stayed at least 3 years. Anyone else remember the great Duke vs Maryland matchups? Jay Williams, Dunleavy, Boozer, Dixon, Blake, Wilcox, etc. There is nothing even remotely close to that in today's college basketball and hasn't been for 5+ years. Kansas with Hinrich and Collison against a Melo led Syracuse?
Even in the Pac 12. Is there anything this season even close to as interesting to when IT and UW faced off against Derrick Williams and Arizona? The early Romar teams facing Salim Stoudemire, Channing Frye, Hassein Adams, and Arizona? The really good Stanford teams with Childress and that fucking annoying, tough latino PG? Even the years UW wasn't that great, the other teams were entertaining. Stanford had the Lopez twins, WSU was solid, UCLA made multiple final fours, USC had some good squads under Floyd.
It's time to go to the baseball model because CBB truly fucking sucks. Let them go pro out of high school, but if they come to college make them play three years. This isn't even some "back in my day" or "get off my lawn" stuff. It doesn't even have much to do with UW although them being good would make things better. CBB truly fucking sucks.
Comments
In terms of quality though ... there's a lot of quality out there this year.
Kansas and Michigan State in general to me never seem to have the highest of high end players but tend to produce guys that stay in school for a few years and then turn out to be solid, but not necessarily exceptional, professionals.
I wouldn't be surprised if both of these teams were some of the last standing this year ... the Big 12 in general has been really good. What you don't know though is how teams get beat up during the season and what they have left in the tank come March.
The fact that most prognosticators have the Pac 12 getting 8 teams in the field, with a 9th just on the outside, says all you need to know about how bad the overall product is this year. I remember years when this conference had two teams in the field. This conference might have as many NCAA tournament bids as bowl games. How weird is that?
I can name more Pac-12 players from 10 years ago than this season.
I agree with RD about the name recognition. In the late 2000s and even earlier this decade, I probably knew at least one player from each Pac 10 or 12 school. I'd know two or three from the better schools. I cannot name one fucking player from UCLA....not one...don't care enough to look any up either.
I can probably name six or seven Huskies and maybe three AZ Wildcats. I have no clue who is on Puke, UNC, Syracuse, Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville, Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana... People older than Millenials like to follow guys from when they are freshman for three or four years. I think Millenials do as well. I don't like the guys, but it was interesting to track Bobby Hurley and Christian Laettner. The Fab Five were fun (even though they kind of started this horrible trend).
Ratings can't be good. The product isn't good. The NBA product is pretty awful once you get beyond the top 10 or 12 teams. Ever sit through a Kings/Sixers game? Would any of you clowns even accept a free ticket to a farce like that? It seems like it makes sense for the NBA and college basketball to come to an agreement that would benefit all involved. Maybe that's just to common sense. Stern was too busy about trying to build a brand in Third World shitholes and didn't do anything of the sort.
You shouldn't force a kid to go to college. Especially for one fucking year. It's supposed to be all about "getting an education" but the kids going to college for one year don't learn jack shit and the NBA/NCAA know that. I can't imagine it helps the specific teams either as far as cohesion and learning to play together, especially on decent teams made up of sophomores and juniors who want to win but are put off by the supposed selfish kid who wants to get in and get out. If a kid doesn't want to go to college, wonderful. But if he does, make him stay 3 years. At least that way you're giving a kid the option and I guarantee ratings will increase because casual fans will start learning players' names, seeing an up and coming team and looking forward to watching them the next year. Now, if I turn on a game and really like the way Duke plays but think they'll be especially fun to watch once they put it all together, I already know the roster will look completely different next year.
I really do think name recognition has a lot to do with it (besides the shitty play...but one could argue that there's not enough consistency for the good teams to learn how to play together, AND the FS new rules), especially among the casuals. You apply the baseball rules to basketball and ratings will increase dramatically within 3-4 years.
UW sucks the last 4-5 years causing many regular fans to lose interest in possible competition nationwide b/c UW will never see those teams. And quite frankly who really follows a sport when you can't even sniff a 68 team tourney at years end? Invest all that time for what?
The pac-12 network is not on any tv most people have, and nobody cares enough(including myself and DNC) to regularly make an effort to find a way to watch the games. The network is a big piece, but add the game times into the mix and you get even more issues. Who is watching college basketball on Sunday's during the NFL? Or what about even thursday nights during the NFL? The pac-12 and much of the game is getting swallowed up by football because most have betting interests(real or fantasy sports) and preseason games are largely played against shit opponents on tv stations nobody has.
All of the above hampers name recognition b/c we as fans don't keep up on TBS bball recruiting and most kids leave after a year anyhow leaving most fans 2-3 weekends a year where they get to know a player and he's gone(ie march). If these players were coming back the next year and they sparked your interest you may be more inclined to actually watch a few games the following season.
Over saturation of games is another big reason. At any given time I can turn on the tv and there are 12 basketball games on(except the pac-12 network of course). FS1/2, ESPN 1,2, U and ocho, sportsnet, cbssports, big 12 network, sec network, etc. It's just boring. The first game i actually sat down to watch that wasn't UW was the Oky LSU game this past weekend. Turned it on at half and watched the rest just purely b/c i hadn't seen simmons play yet this year. It turned into a decent content and Buddy made me want to watch more Oky games(and yet i haven't bothered to look up when to do such a thing). Simmons, i don't give a shit because the guy is for sure gone and his team was terrible other than him.
At some point the ncaa/nba will realize that the baseball model is good for the game. The more you're invested in young players name the more you'll follow to the next level. Elite kids get the chance to jump, but don't have to. The games will improve in skill based solely on kids coming out of college are more prepared mentally and physically while the college game improves b/c it isn't diaper dandies(barf) littering the court with garbage fundamentals they used in 95 AAU games a year. The trade off should be different contract structure if you go to 3 years of school so that the players union and players don't get docked for choosing school over toiling around in the nba for 3 years and maybe making it.
TL:DR version - College basketball has just been drown out by many things in life because there are 30+ events a year, the quality is poor, there is no investment because the teams turn over so much year after year and UW sucks which just reminds everyone we? can't make a 68 team tourney. I'm sure if UW was regularly on a TV i could actually watch and were constantly in the conversation about postseason I would be much more inclined to watch.
Throw in all the other stuff that's been mentioned and CBB has become a shit show until the conference tourney week rolls around and teams start earning bids to the dance.