maybe we an stop treating education as a business?

Fire_Marshall_Bill

http://billmoyers.com/2015/11/13/students-left-in-crushing-debt-as-for-profit-college-empire-collapses/

OZONE

I have sympathy for students that went to legitimate schools and have a lot of debt to pay off -- but I'm sure they will make it. It is all about living within your means.

But I don't have sympathy for people that made the mistake of thinking that the University of Phoenix was a real college, and racked up a bunch of debt and got a worthless "degree".

doogsinparadise

I have empathy for their predicament, considering that they're probably just the kind of people that both need more education (foremost to know that for-profit college is a scam) and can't afford regular college. They're not the ones who set up the student loan/tuition racket.

RoadDawg55

It's fucking insane people haven't caught on to what a racket the education system has become.

Baby boomers convinced millenials that you need to go to college. At one point, when only the middle and upper class went to college that was true. The world changed though.

sarktastic

Students know. They pile on the debt anyway.

sarktastic

doogsinparadise said:

I have empathy for their predicament, considering that they're probably just the kind of people that both need more education (foremost to know that for-profit college is a scam) and can't afford regular college. They're not the ones who set up the student loan/tuition racket.

Not-for-profit for the most part is a scam, too. Why do you hate financed French Literature degrees?

Fenderbender123

If colleges actually operated like a business and had to compete for our hard earned dollars through innovation and lower prices instead of being mostly dictated by government rules and having to increase prices to offset the artificially high demand caused by subsidies, then we wouldn't have this problem.

It's like we decided that more people need to go to college, and now we are outraged that it's costing money to do that. Something something eating cake.

And honestly we probably need less people going to college anyway. 20 years ago the people who started their careers in the same position as me didn't have a degree because it wasnt difficult to train them. Now everyone does because that's become the standard. So if you want the job you gotta get a degree or you can't compete with the other applicants. So basically colleges are raking in extra revenue but nobody is really producing more in the workforce for it. That's not a good thing at all. It's a major fucking waste.

2001400ex

Fenderbender123 said:

If colleges actually operated like a business and had to compete for our hard earned dollars through innovation and lower prices instead of being mostly dictated by government rules and having to increase prices to offset the artificially high demand caused by subsidies, then we wouldn't have this problem.

It's like we decided that more people need to go to college, and now we are outraged that it's costing money to do that. Something something eating cake.

And honestly we probably need less people going to college anyway. 20 years ago the people who started their careers in the same position as me didn't have a degree because it wasnt difficult to train them. Now everyone does because that's become the standard. So if you want the job you gotta get a degree or you can't compete with the other applicants. So basically colleges are raking in extra revenue but nobody is really producing more in the workforce for it. That's not a good thing at all. It's a major fucking waste.

Then why is the college graduate unemployment rate under 3%?

Fenderbender123

Because graduates are getting priority over non-graduates. Getting a degree helps an employer know that you can dedicate yourself, put in work, and aren't stupid. However, getting the degree itself doesn't make you that person, it's just a reflection of it. So tens of thousands of dollars get spent on something that slightly lowers the rate of hiring incapable people. I don't know if that's a worthy investment.

For a lot of jobs that require a degree, the training you get when you're hired is sufficient, and what you learned in college isn't all that helpful. College used to be a place where people went to learn shit that couldn't realistically be taught on the job. Now it's just a lot more general knowledge. Of course, I'm speaking in terms of your average graduate who has a bachelor's degree and is looking for an average entry-level job....not people who are going into medicine or law.

PurpleJ

Respect da bidness. I'm calling the police.

sarktastic

2001400ex said:

Fenderbender123 said:

If colleges actually operated like a business and had to compete for our hard earned dollars through innovation and lower prices instead of being mostly dictated by government rules and having to increase prices to offset the artificially high demand caused by subsidies, then we wouldn't have this problem.

It's like we decided that more people need to go to college, and now we are outraged that it's costing money to do that. Something something eating cake.

And honestly we probably need less people going to college anyway. 20 years ago the people who started their careers in the same position as me didn't have a degree because it wasnt difficult to train them. Now everyone does because that's become the standard. So if you want the job you gotta get a degree or you can't compete with the other applicants. So basically colleges are raking in extra revenue but nobody is really producing more in the workforce for it. That's not a good thing at all. It's a major fucking waste.

Then why is the college graduate unemployment rate under 3%?

yet another blatant indicator that 'unemployment rate' is a fictitious manipulated government statistic for sheep.

section8

The degree or even a certificate program helps with the first couple jobs but after that for most part it's all on the individual to prove themselves. Unless your talking about medical or law, maybe education degrees they really don't matter all that much ten or fifteen years down the road when you've forgotten most of what you learned and are probably working in an unrelated field anyways.

2001400ex

sarktastic said:

2001400ex said:

Fenderbender123 said:

If colleges actually operated like a business and had to compete for our hard earned dollars through innovation and lower prices instead of being mostly dictated by government rules and having to increase prices to offset the artificially high demand caused by subsidies, then we wouldn't have this problem.

It's like we decided that more people need to go to college, and now we are outraged that it's costing money to do that. Something something eating cake.

And honestly we probably need less people going to college anyway. 20 years ago the people who started their careers in the same position as me didn't have a degree because it wasnt difficult to train them. Now everyone does because that's become the standard. So if you want the job you gotta get a degree or you can't compete with the other applicants. So basically colleges are raking in extra revenue but nobody is really producing more in the workforce for it. That's not a good thing at all. It's a major fucking waste.

Then why is the college graduate unemployment rate under 3%?

yet another blatant indicator that 'unemployment rate' is a fictitious manipulated government statistic for sheep.

Yes, consider the statistics inaccurate (the same exact ones you bragged about when your guy was president and it was 4% overall). And believe hyperbole instead. Just what an "educated college graduate" should do.

sarktastic

Fuck off, murderer.

2001400ex

sarktastic said:

Fuck off, murderer.

You clearly hate facts. Sorry bro.

doogsinparadise

How is college not required in THIS economy? @RoadDawg55 @allpurpleallgold?

Sure, you can make a living if you have hard skills in a field like construction or other technical area. But that's not most people, and it's going to be even more pronounced in the future. How is sending people to school to learn how to write and read difficult material in any way a bad thing?

doogsinparadise

I see this fault with a lot of my lefty friends, where they're still stuck in this pre-1990's world where people should just be able to make a wage and go on with their lives. There's a reason that farming and manufacturing are going toward automation, and it's our responsibility to make sure people are prepared for the next economic period.

creepycoug

This thread is FS.

You should all pay me a consultation fee and then I'd tell you how it is.

doogsinparadise

Hell, even medicine is going to see automation. The only fields that are entirely immune to disruption by robots are those that are derived from the "soft" liberal arts like philosophy, cultural criticism, art, etc.

2001400ex

doogsinparadise said:

Hell, even medicine is going to see automation. The only fields that are entirely immune to disruption by robots are those that are derived from the "soft" liberal arts like philosophy, cultural criticism, art, etc.

You think accountants and lawyers are going automated?

Really, it doesn't matter the field. Just like T. Boone says. It's about hard work. Unless you are already wealthy like Gordon Gecko.

Fenderbender123

doogsinparadise said:

I see this fault with a lot of my lefty friends, where they're still stuck in this pre-1990's world where people should just be able to make a wage and go on with their lives. There's a reason that farming and manufacturing are going toward automation, and it's our responsibility to make sure people are prepared for the next economic period.

Partially, yes, but there are many fields where the applicants are too overqualified, and the only reason you need a degree to get a job in it is because everyone else has one, and not because the education is necessary to perform.