Is there any question that most Libtards flunked math?
Nevada Bets Big on Batteries, Seems Set to Lose
RENO, NEVADA-- In Nevada, the House always wins. That’s why they build massive casinos: to collect money from gamblers–who are unofficially known in the state as “suckers.”nevada-bets-big-on-batteries-seems-set-to-lose/
Ah, but gambling on slot machines isn’t the only way to lose money in Nevada. The state is going to gamble on batteries, and also looks set to lose a ton.
Last year, Tesla declared it will build the world’s largest battery factory, near Reno. Tesla calls the facility a “gigafactory,” and says it will manufacture lithium cells to power its cars. It also promises to hire 6,500 employees.
But that number is a real gamble for the state.
For one thing, there’s no indication that Tesla will survive. Founder Elon Musk says he doesn’t expect the company to make any money until around the year 2020. If it goes the way of Solyndra before then, Tesla would take a lot of potential jobs down with it.
And even if the company turns into the next General Motors (circa 1955), Nevada probably won’t see much benefit.
To get Tesla into the state, The Washington Post reports, Nevada gave the company “a $1.3 billion incentive package to build its factory.” State taxpayers are now subsidizing the factory “at a rate of $190,000 per job.”
The Census Bureau says the median household income in Nevada is about $50,000. If each job created pays that much, and the state could somehow collect 10 percent of each salary each year in taxes (The state has no income tax.), it would still take almost 40 years to collect $190,000 from each employee, and thus break even on the deal.
What are the odds this factory will still be there, pumping out batteries, in 38 years? Those odds are certainly stacked against state taxpayers.
Nevada is gambling on a sector–energy–that even experts often misjudge. Just a year ago, it would have seemed absurd to bet on $2.50 gasoline. Yet here we are.
What will the market for big batteries look like in a decade? Only a sucker, or a government, would bet on that.
Comments
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2 different issues.
1. Musk's efforts to produce high performance batteries. I'm not sure anyone can argue this is a bad thing.
2. Nevada's incentives. I've seen bloated incentive numbers too many times to believe best (or worst) case scenarios.
At the end of the day, this die hard conservative is all in on what Musk is trying to do. -
I'd give Tesla better odds of survival and long term success than Solyndra ever had.
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Tesla isn't going to fail.
HTH -
Solyndra?? Dude that was 6 years ago for fucks sakes. Why even bring that up? I know that gives you a boner, Death, but it makes it very clear the author is a partisan hack.
And who gives a fuck if they aren't profitable for 5 years. If you knew anything about business, you'd know that's typical. Businesses don't just start up and become profitable.
Fuck you are stupid. -
Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
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Want to talk about failures of Boehner??RaceBannon said:Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
Oh yeah, that's right. You gotta do something before you can fail. -
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2001400ex said:
Want to talk about failures of Boehner??RaceBannon said:Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
Oh yeah, that's right. You gotta do something before you can fail.Like get outta da basement.
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Wow that's all you got.d2d said:2001400ex said:
Want to talk about failures of Boehner??RaceBannon said:Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
Oh yeah, that's right. You gotta do something before you can fail.Like get outta da basement.
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Wow that's all you got.2001400ex said:d2d said:2001400ex said:
Want to talk about failures of Boehner??RaceBannon said:Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
Oh yeah, that's right. You gotta do something before you can fail.Like get outta da basement.
Derek won't let me poaste pics of yo man's more recent failures. -
Derek won't let me poaste pics of yo man's more recent failures.d2d said:
Wow that's all you got.2001400ex said:d2d said:2001400ex said:
Want to talk about failures of Boehner??RaceBannon said:Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
Oh yeah, that's right. You gotta do something before you can fail.Like get outta da basement.
Lol your incessant hate for Obama is clear. But keep blaming Obama for everything, even shit he has nothing to do with. -
Lol your incessant hate for Obama is clear. But keep blaming Obama for everything, even shit he has nothing to do with.2001400ex said:
Derek won't let me poaste pics of yo man's more recent failures.d2d said:
Wow that's all you got.2001400ex said:d2d said:2001400ex said:
Want to talk about failures of Boehner??RaceBannon said:Yeah don't talk about the boyfriend failures
Oh yeah, that's right. You gotta do something before you can fail.Like get outta da basement.
Obama caused that Nepal earthquake. -
I don't believe Elon is a libtard.... Elon is a total badass. I'm sure he has worked with math.
Sure it could fail, but the Tesla home battery is around the corner as well.
I would research the dude. -
We should walk it back and dig down and see if it scales
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Tax breaks bring in more revenue than the tax cut cost. Cause Reagan said so. Unless it's technology, cause well, Solyndra.
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Flagged for ad spam.jecornel said: -
Thanks boobs.
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IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated). -
But but but, because of Solyndra, the government should never invest in technology again.HFNY said:IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated). -
Nevada is essentially investing in technology by forgoing future tax revenues. They are just doing it smarter than the Feds and there's more accountability at the state level too.
The Feds are better off funding / partnering with research at universities rather than directly funding a for-profit business and in fact, people at Universities in California started it. OTOH, Obama had to pay back his cronies and at least now, Solyndra is a byword for crony capitalism and maybe even political corruption.
Of course the Federal Government still funds tech via the massive military budget and top secret programs. DARPA has a budget of $3 billion alone.2001400ex said:
But but but, because of Solyndra, the government should never invest in technology again.HFNY said:IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated). -
For every $500 million wasted on Solyndra and similar, we can discuss how many billions wasted on Halliburton and similar.HFNY said:Nevada is essentially investing in technology by forgoing future tax revenues. They are just doing it smarter than the Feds and there's more accountability at the state level too.
The Feds are better off funding / partnering with research at universities rather than directly funding a for-profit business and in fact, people at Universities in California started it. OTOH, Obama had to pay back his cronies and at least now, Solyndra is a byword for crony capitalism and maybe even political corruption.
Of course the Federal Government still funds tech via the massive military budget and top secret programs. DARPA has a budget of $3 billion alone.2001400ex said:
But but but, because of Solyndra, the government should never invest in technology again.HFNY said:IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated).
HTH -
Obama has given no bid contracts to Haliburton.
Your boyfriend cheated on you again -
Link?RaceBannon said:Obama has given no bid contracts to Haliburton.
Your boyfriend cheated on you again
Besides you totally don't get my point. But that's OK, race you don't get anything. -
Is he starting to get it?2001400ex said:
But but but, because of Solyndra, the government should never invest in technology again.HFNY said:IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated). -
Exactly. Giving tax cuts to the wealthy and money to oil companies is a much better use of our funds.d2d said:
Is he starting to get it?2001400ex said:
But but but, because of Solyndra, the government should never invest in technology again.HFNY said:IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated). -
You need to learn to stick on the subject. Bringing up Halliburton is silly because they were tied to the previous administration and they actually provided logistics and services to American Troops in Iraq rather than the Feds directly investing in them.
But since you went off on a tangent, who is giving money to oil companies? Oil companies, like any other company, are legally allowed to depreciate their equipment and buildings. IIRC, Obama's "Stimulus" package permitted accelerated depreciation so if you have a problem with that, you need to call him about it.2001400ex said:
Exactly. Giving tax cuts to the wealthy and money to oil companies is a much better use of our funds.d2d said:
Is he starting to get it?2001400ex said:
But but but, because of Solyndra, the government should never invest in technology again.HFNY said:IIRC, Solyndra was financed with over a half billion by the Federal Government so there was less accountability while it appears as though Nevada is not directly injecting cash into Telsa. I tend to believe foregone future tax revenues are often fluffed up to make companies feel better, kind of like Boeing's list prices. One must also consider the time value of money as it obviously hurt more that the Federales gave Solyndra over a half bill up-front while these tax concessions are probably streamed over 10, 20, or even more years. Nevada's tax concessions are also less risky than what the Feds did because Tesla is a leader in its field, has been a going concern for 15, and is selling roughly 20,000+ cars a year. WTF had Solyndra done to merit all that money other than mutual backscratching between idiots and Obama? How about A123 Battery?
Expanding on that a key variable is that Musk is a BILLIONAIRE while Solyndra's backers were cronies of the Obama admin (they were fundraisers for his 2008 run & Obama paid them back 2 years later) so their ROL (Return on Lobbying) was fantastically high. Has Elon Musk raised money for Nevada State Senators, House Reps, or for the Governor?
As for what Musk / Tesla is doing, I think it's brilliant and wished I had the foresight and money to do it. Can one imagine how impressed the Ancient Romans would've been with creating electricity from the sun and then being able to store it at one's residence for future use? This is really big stuff and could displace more oil use so that we can export more, burn less of it ourselves, and perhaps even lead to lower electricity prices (not in Seattle because SeattleCityLightFS and bloated). -
I would research what the subsidies entail. Cause it's far from just depreciation.
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Link?2001400ex said:
I would research what the subsidies entail. Cause it's far from just depreciation.
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Elon Musk is brilliant for selling a $50K car to folks for $120K, cutting out the dealership overhead from the equation, and using/expanding govt regulations to force companies like GM to pay him $$$ to sell their own cars (fuel efficiency credits). That's his current business model.
That said, the battery future with current technology is still just plain dumb. Electrical transmission efficiency is still 35% or so, and you add battery efficiency to that and you have an extremely inefficient use of carbon fuel. And solar cells are still not economically viable...hence the large subsidies. And having the govt subsidize upper middle class people to attach electrically inefficient batteries to their house to make them feel better about their carbon footprint is extremely stupid and should anger everyone.
