Crony capitalism getting bit in the ass along with the American consumer

WestlinnDuck

The US auto industry had a chance to build cars and trucks that the public actually wants, but decided that sucking at the government tit was the way to go. Despite a huge federal tax credit for selling an electric vehicle Ford is losing billions on its EVs. The EV scam is the ultimate global virtue signaling (except for India and the chicoms). Both the US carmakers and the UAW refused to make a stand based on actual science and thought that the government could paper over money losing EVs.

https://ace.mu.nu/

THE MORNING RANT: Layoffs and Production Shutdowns as (Non-Tesla) EV Sales Miss Targets
—Buck Throckmorton
Ford F150 Towed at Charging Station.JPG
The “EV transition” has stalled out, and except for Tesla, electric vehicle manufacturers are seeing their growth stall. In some cases sales are collapsing.

Ford is shaping up as a big loser in their electric pickup truck endeavor.

“Sales of the F-150 lightning electric pickup were off about 46% during third quarter due to slower-than-expected demand and downtime at the plant” [CNBC – 10/04/2023]

Ford sold 6,464 F150 Lightning EVs in Q3 2022, but sales in Q3 2023 fell to just 3,503 which annualizes to only 42,000 per year. Ford executives think pretend they’re going to sell hundreds of thousands of EV pickups per year, but demand has already imploded. Even worse, a great many of the recent Lightning sales are to governmental fleets. Consumers have rejected this product.

As for “downtime at the plant” affecting sales of the F150 Lighting EV, an ideal supply of vehicles on dealer lots is 60 days’ worth, Ford dealers are currently choking on a 97-day supply of Lightnings nationwide with 3,632 for sale. “Downtime” is not retarding sales.

Meanwhile, Ford has suddenly canceled all further deliveries to dealers of 2023 model year F150 Lightnings that are not already pre-sold.

“Ford cancels dealer stock orders of 2023 F-150 Lightning to do quality checks” [Detroit Free Press – 10/02/2023]

Dealer stock orders for the 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning were canceled in the U.S. in recent days, the Detroit Free Press has learned.
Ford confirmed Monday that the all-electric pickups are undergoing "additional quality checks" at the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center.

“Additional quality checks”? Is something wrong with them?

The issue is not safety-related, Gunsberg said.
No, the issue is the growing glut of 2023 model year F150 Lightnings.

Ford is now working to match its 2023 supply with demand as the company prepares to change over to 2024 Lightning production later this year, said Ford spokesman Marty Gunsberg.
Let me translate. What would have been year-model 2023 electric pickups are now going to be year-model 2024 electric pickups (after their “additional quality checks”) so as to ensure that there is not a glut of unsold prior-year model Lightnings in 2024. Don’t misunderstand, there will still be a glut of these unwanted pickups, but at least the dealers will be sitting on a glut of year-model 2024 Lightnings.

By the way, it’s not just Ford suffering from poor EV sales. Pretty much any company not named Tesla is seeing demand that is much less than they anticipated. (“Volkswagen cites slow demand amid EV production cuts at German plants” [Electrek – 9/26/2023])

PurpleThrobber

Mrs Throbber v2.0 covets a Ford F-150.

UW_Doog_Bot

Crony capitalism is Marxist speak for centrally planned economics.

Capitalism has nothing to do with rent seeking.

Bendintheriver

Bought a Tesla. A great car, love the 0-60 throw your head back and all the features. A tank of gas/energy costs me about $5.00 as long as it charges at home after midnight. I get legit 240 to 300 miles per charge depending on how fast I am driving. It takes about 20-25 minutes and $12 to get a full charge at a supercharging station. Just long enough to take a leak, take some fluids down and read an email or two.

I am no environmental doomsday clod. I bought the Tesla because my company pays me $0.67 a mile. I travel about 600 miles a week. I will pay the Tesla off in 2 years and then retire early with a vehicle that will never wear out with the lack of miles I will be putting on it. No house payment, no car payment equals more money for travel, food and booze.

I wanted to buy a F-150 Lightning. It was such a shit show to get in line to buy a car that you couldn't even test drive that I said puck it. A friend bought one of the first ones off the line. I drove it. Nice vehicle. Still wanted one. 3 months later my friend came over and he was driving a Tesla. I asked him where the truck was. He was having so many problems with it (with the computer system on board) plus when he towed his runabout fishing boat, he found that he was getting less than 100 miles a charge. Big puck up by Ford. He sold it to some sucker who paid almost full price for it. Why would anyone come out with an electric truck that gets very little mileage per charge if you use it like a truck?

UW_Doog_Bot

Bendintheriver said:

Bought a Tesla. A great car, love the 0-60 throw your head back and all the features. A tank of gas/energy costs me about $5.00 as long as it charges at home after midnight. I get legit 240 to 300 miles per charge depending on how fast I am driving. It takes about 20-25 minutes and $12 to get a full charge at a supercharging station. Just long enough to take a leak, take some fluids down and read an email or two.

I am no environmental doomsday clod. I bought the Tesla because my company pays me $0.67 a mile. I travel about 600 miles a week. I will pay the Tesla off in 2 years and then retire early with a vehicle that will never wear out with the lack of miles I will be putting on it. No house payment, no car payment equals more money for travel, food and booze.

I wanted to buy a F-150 Lightning. It was such a shit show to get in line to buy a car that you couldn't even test drive that I said puck it. A friend bought one of the first ones off the line. I drove it. Nice vehicle. Still wanted one. 3 months later my friend came over and he was driving a Tesla. I asked him where the truck was. He was having so many problems with it (with the computer system on board) plus when he towed his runabout fishing boat, he found that he was getting less than 100 miles a charge. Big puck up by Ford. He sold it to some sucker who paid almost full price for it. Why would anyone come out with an electric truck that gets very little mileage per charge if you use it like a truck?

Because this administration is forcing car makers to do so.

There won't ever be a viable towing solution for electric. Cook it.

Sledog

If people can afford to have a car you can't drive anywhere you want a Tesla is fine for around town. I don't like the government having the power to stop all travel by killing the power either. But that's just me.

RoadTrip

Sledog said:

If people can afford to have a car you can't drive anywhere you want a Tesla is fine for around town. I don't like the government having the power to stop all travel by killing the power either. But that's just me.

Mine drives really well in the snow. I take it up to Tahoe all the time.

Sledog

RoadTrip said:

Sledog said:

If people can afford to have a car you can't drive anywhere you want a Tesla is fine for around town. I don't like the government having the power to stop all travel by killing the power either. But that's just me.

Mine drives really well in the snow. I take it up to Tahoe all the time.

I was just talking about the ability of not being able to use it with the flick of a switch. Hard to store electricity or drag large generators around.

I have snow and ice. Lots of things work in maintained places but our private road can be up to 8" of solid ice and 11% grades. It takes dedicated snow tires, preferably studded and equipment to live where I do.

WestlinnDuck

Bendintheriver said:

Bought a Tesla. A great car, love the 0-60 throw your head back and all the features. A tank of gas/energy costs me about $5.00 as long as it charges at home after midnight. I get legit 240 to 300 miles per charge depending on how fast I am driving. It takes about 20-25 minutes and $12 to get a full charge at a supercharging station. Just long enough to take a leak, take some fluids down and read an email or two.

I am no environmental doomsday clod. I bought the Tesla because my company pays me $0.67 a mile. I travel about 600 miles a week. I will pay the Tesla off in 2 years and then retire early with a vehicle that will never wear out with the lack of miles I will be putting on it. No house payment, no car payment equals more money for travel, food and booze.

I wanted to buy a F-150 Lightning. It was such a shit show to get in line to buy a car that you couldn't even test drive that I said puck it. A friend bought one of the first ones off the line. I drove it. Nice vehicle. Still wanted one. 3 months later my friend came over and he was driving a Tesla. I asked him where the truck was. He was having so many problems with it (with the computer system on board) plus when he towed his runabout fishing boat, he found that he was getting less than 100 miles a charge. Big puck up by Ford. He sold it to some sucker who paid almost full price for it. Why would anyone come out with an electric truck that gets very little mileage per charge if you use it like a truck?

Once again, if you want to drive an EV, I'm fine with it as long as I don't have to pay a chunk of the cost of the car through tax credits, subsidize your road fees with my gas tax or pay for your charging stations. But we do. And our elected officials are science morons and think that forcing Americans to buy cars and trucks they don't want which are environmentally dirty, unreliable and expensive and a direct subsidy to the chicoms is a win for the US. Team dazzler at work.

PurpleThrobber

Sledog said:

RoadTrip said:

Sledog said:

If people can afford to have a car you can't drive anywhere you want a Tesla is fine for around town. I don't like the government having the power to stop all travel by killing the power either. But that's just me.

Mine drives really well in the snow. I take it up to Tahoe all the time.

I was just talking about the ability of not being able to use it with the flick of a switch. Hard to store electricity or drag large generators around.

I have snow and ice. Lots of things work in maintained places but our private road can be up to 8" of solid ice and 11% grades. It takes dedicated snow tires, preferably studded and equipment to live where I do.

At least you can still purchase studded tires in N. Idaho.

The GNR Compound is under the same duress in the winter. Worst is late Feb/early March when the snow melts during the day and then refreezes at night. Bobsled run.

RoadTrip

WestlinnDuck said:

Bendintheriver said:

Bought a Tesla. A great car, love the 0-60 throw your head back and all the features. A tank of gas/energy costs me about $5.00 as long as it charges at home after midnight. I get legit 240 to 300 miles per charge depending on how fast I am driving. It takes about 20-25 minutes and $12 to get a full charge at a supercharging station. Just long enough to take a leak, take some fluids down and read an email or two.

I am no environmental doomsday clod. I bought the Tesla because my company pays me $0.67 a mile. I travel about 600 miles a week. I will pay the Tesla off in 2 years and then retire early with a vehicle that will never wear out with the lack of miles I will be putting on it. No house payment, no car payment equals more money for travel, food and booze.

I wanted to buy a F-150 Lightning. It was such a shit show to get in line to buy a car that you couldn't even test drive that I said puck it. A friend bought one of the first ones off the line. I drove it. Nice vehicle. Still wanted one. 3 months later my friend came over and he was driving a Tesla. I asked him where the truck was. He was having so many problems with it (with the computer system on board) plus when he towed his runabout fishing boat, he found that he was getting less than 100 miles a charge. Big puck up by Ford. He sold it to some sucker who paid almost full price for it. Why would anyone come out with an electric truck that gets very little mileage per charge if you use it like a truck?

Once again, if you want to drive an EV, I'm fine with it as long as I don't have to pay a chunk of the cost of the car through tax credits, subsidize your road fees with my gas tax or pay for your charging stations. But we do. And our elected officials are science morons and think that forcing Americans to buy cars and trucks they don't want which are environmentally dirty, unreliable and expensive and a direct subsidy to the chicoms is a win for the US. Team dazzler at work.

Yes. Thank you for subsidizing about $45,000 for mine so far. I think the federal and state credits were about 15k and I get free charging for life. For the first 4 or 5 years, I was doing about 40k miles a year so about $5,500 in gas equivalent savings a year. Now that's down to about $2k a year. I'm still on the original brakes. No way would Tesla had taken off if the federal government didn't essentially build the extensive charging structure. I don't agree with it but I was smart enough to take advantage of it.

WestlinnDuck

RoadTrip said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Bendintheriver said:

Bought a Tesla. A great car, love the 0-60 throw your head back and all the features. A tank of gas/energy costs me about $5.00 as long as it charges at home after midnight. I get legit 240 to 300 miles per charge depending on how fast I am driving. It takes about 20-25 minutes and $12 to get a full charge at a supercharging station. Just long enough to take a leak, take some fluids down and read an email or two.

I am no environmental doomsday clod. I bought the Tesla because my company pays me $0.67 a mile. I travel about 600 miles a week. I will pay the Tesla off in 2 years and then retire early with a vehicle that will never wear out with the lack of miles I will be putting on it. No house payment, no car payment equals more money for travel, food and booze.

I wanted to buy a F-150 Lightning. It was such a shit show to get in line to buy a car that you couldn't even test drive that I said puck it. A friend bought one of the first ones off the line. I drove it. Nice vehicle. Still wanted one. 3 months later my friend came over and he was driving a Tesla. I asked him where the truck was. He was having so many problems with it (with the computer system on board) plus when he towed his runabout fishing boat, he found that he was getting less than 100 miles a charge. Big puck up by Ford. He sold it to some sucker who paid almost full price for it. Why would anyone come out with an electric truck that gets very little mileage per charge if you use it like a truck?

Once again, if you want to drive an EV, I'm fine with it as long as I don't have to pay a chunk of the cost of the car through tax credits, subsidize your road fees with my gas tax or pay for your charging stations. But we do. And our elected officials are science morons and think that forcing Americans to buy cars and trucks they don't want which are environmentally dirty, unreliable and expensive and a direct subsidy to the chicoms is a win for the US. Team dazzler at work.

Yes. Thank you for subsidizing about $45,000 for mine so far. I think the federal and state credits were about 15k and I get free charging for life. For the first 4 or 5 years, I was doing about 40k miles a year so about $5,500 in gas equivalent savings a year. Now that's down to about $2k a year. I'm still on the original brakes. No way would Tesla had taken off if the federal government didn't essentially build the extensive charging structure. I don't agree with it but I was smart enough to take advantage of it.

A few years ago I got like $1500 in federal and state credits and rebates for a gas fireplace insert I was going to buy anyway. Unlike the dazzler, I'm not undertaxed so I've no problem with using subsidies.

Sledog

I couldn't plan my trips by charging stations. I laugh when I am forced to travel the 5 through Central Kali and all the electric cars lined up to charge and people sitting around waiting. I laugh hard.

Goduckies

PurpleThrobber said:

Sledog said:

RoadTrip said:

Sledog said:

If people can afford to have a car you can't drive anywhere you want a Tesla is fine for around town. I don't like the government having the power to stop all travel by killing the power either. But that's just me.

Mine drives really well in the snow. I take it up to Tahoe all the time.

I was just talking about the ability of not being able to use it with the flick of a switch. Hard to store electricity or drag large generators around.

I have snow and ice. Lots of things work in maintained places but our private road can be up to 8" of solid ice and 11% grades. It takes dedicated snow tires, preferably studded and equipment to live where I do.

At least you can still purchase studded tires in N. Idaho.

The GNR Compound is under the same duress in the winter. Worst is late Feb/early March when the snow melts during the day and then refreezes at night. Bobsled run.

Love me some studs.... what ice lol

Goduckies

Sledog said:

I couldn't plan my trips by charging stations. I laugh when I am forced to travel the 5 through Central Kali and all the electric cars lined up to charge and people sitting around waiting. I laugh hard.

It's a pain for sure. But manageable

Alexis

The down side for Teslas is gonna be when insurance companies stop insuring them. They are already pretty tough, as even minor impacts tend to turn out to be totals due to the lack of available parts.

So basically, a throwaway car to save the environment.

Sledog

Youngest had one. Heavy downpour he hyroplanedand hit a center divide curb. Blew the sirens in the driver's side. Airbags were 10k apiece. Insurance just totaled it.

Goduckies

Alexis said:

The down side for Teslas is gonna be when insurance companies stop insuring them. They are already pretty tough, as even minor impacts tend to turn out to be totals due to the lack of available parts.

So basically, a throwaway car to save the environment.

Definitely an issue

Bendintheriver

RoadTrip said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Bendintheriver said:

Bought a Tesla. A great car, love the 0-60 throw your head back and all the features. A tank of gas/energy costs me about $5.00 as long as it charges at home after midnight. I get legit 240 to 300 miles per charge depending on how fast I am driving. It takes about 20-25 minutes and $12 to get a full charge at a supercharging station. Just long enough to take a leak, take some fluids down and read an email or two.

I am no environmental doomsday clod. I bought the Tesla because my company pays me $0.67 a mile. I travel about 600 miles a week. I will pay the Tesla off in 2 years and then retire early with a vehicle that will never wear out with the lack of miles I will be putting on it. No house payment, no car payment equals more money for travel, food and booze.

I wanted to buy a F-150 Lightning. It was such a shit show to get in line to buy a car that you couldn't even test drive that I said puck it. A friend bought one of the first ones off the line. I drove it. Nice vehicle. Still wanted one. 3 months later my friend came over and he was driving a Tesla. I asked him where the truck was. He was having so many problems with it (with the computer system on board) plus when he towed his runabout fishing boat, he found that he was getting less than 100 miles a charge. Big puck up by Ford. He sold it to some sucker who paid almost full price for it. Why would anyone come out with an electric truck that gets very little mileage per charge if you use it like a truck?

Once again, if you want to drive an EV, I'm fine with it as long as I don't have to pay a chunk of the cost of the car through tax credits, subsidize your road fees with my gas tax or pay for your charging stations. But we do. And our elected officials are science morons and think that forcing Americans to buy cars and trucks they don't want which are environmentally dirty, unreliable and expensive and a direct subsidy to the chicoms is a win for the US. Team dazzler at work.

Yes. Thank you for subsidizing about $45,000 for mine so far. I think the federal and state credits were about 15k and I get free charging for life. For the first 4 or 5 years, I was doing about 40k miles a year so about $5,500 in gas equivalent savings a year. Now that's down to about $2k a year. I'm still on the original brakes. No way would Tesla had taken off if the federal government didn't essentially build the extensive charging structure. I don't agree with it but I was smart enough to take advantage of it.

Wow. Free charging for life? How the hell does that happen?

The majority of my charging is at home. But even if it wasn't, as I suspect is the same for many on here, I have never taken, only given. I am part of the group that pays for benefits for others, pays for their free lunches at school, their welfare, power, heat, rent, food stamps, grants, and also pays more than my fair share for things like roads, charging stations, and way more in Social Security for those that paid no attention to their own future security. On SS alone I am sacrificing about 12-20K a month by being forced to invest in the ponzi scheme instead of my own 401K. I think at my age and after all of my generosity to others who are considerably ungrateful, it is OK to utilize a supercharging station every once and awhile.

Goduckies

Tesla offered that to their early customers.... well life of vehicle at least.

Kaepsknee

The First 6 months of 2023 Tesla sales were 60% more than the rest combined. Honda isn’t even on the list and Toyota is near the bottom.

They are clearly None in on EV and all in on Gas and Plug in Hybrid.