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Can we offer this Ukranian solider a scholarship?
Comments
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That is the mind boggling argument. The case for money, weapons and unquantifiable realpolitik gains is much better if they are more capable. Doublethink frankly.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed. -
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont -
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont -
Ok. Then if they are so incapable of taking on Ukraine, let alone any other country after them, why should the United States be giving them hundreds of billions of dollars? Why not let the other NATO countries, who should or would have a direct concern of invasion, fund the Ukraine?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont -
No money for the US MIC if we aren't burning up our military armaments. The other answer is that the US never demanded any accountability out of our NATO "allies" until Trump leaned on them and then Bolton and the rest of the US eternal war machine had a cow. You raise a spoiled child and you end up with a spoiled irresponsible adult. Go figure.RoadTrip said:
Ok. Then if they are so incapable of taking on Ukraine, let alone any other country after them, why should the United States be giving them hundreds of billions of dollars? Why not let the other NATO countries, who should or would have a direct concern of invasion, fund the Ukraine?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont -
LIPO territoryBob_C said:
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont -
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-drone-strikes-putin-latest-b2402318.html
liveuamap.com
Ukraine is pushing into a breach now -
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
LIPO territoryBob_C said:
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont -
Fuck offRoadTrip said:
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
LIPO territoryBob_C said:
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it. -
No need to lose your shit. Everyone here agrees with that last sentence or least their opinion is the Ukraine should be financially responsible for defending themselves. If like you, other surrounding countries are worried about further advancement, they should fund and support the Ukraine. You seem to have changed your position over the last 183 pages. Now you're confident they don't need help and there's absolutely no way Russia would be able to advance beyond Ukraine if that were to happen.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Fuck offRoadTrip said:
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
LIPO territoryBob_C said:
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.RoadTrip said:
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.Blueduck said:
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Turns out they dont
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
