This week's higher lever history: Stalin vs Hitler
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/01/27/hitler-vs-stalin-who-was-worse/
Comments
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Stalin, better hair
Hitler, better overall style - unis were dope -
It's getting to be like Nazi Germany around here
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DerekJohnson said:
Careful
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Same as it ever was.DerekJohnson said:It's getting to be like Nazi Germany around here
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So the big difference between Stalin's terror and Hitler's is that it was (a) mostly targeted at USSR citizens and (b) geared towards political objectives- e.g., emlimination of political enemies, forced collectivization of agriculture. The Nazis on the other hand had very specific plans to liquidate 30 million or more Slavs for Lebensraum. What the Soviets did in East Germany and the future Warsaw Pact countries when they won was relatively mild in comparison to what the Nazi's would have done had they been victorious.
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The correct answer is Mao. Highest body count, assisted and enabled multiple other genocides in SE Asia, and given the chance would have wiped out "inferior" peoples.
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Not a fair contest. China will always win any sort of raw numbers analysis.UW_Doog_Bot said:The correct answer is Mao. Highest body count, assisted and enabled multiple other genocides in SE Asia, and given the chance would have wiped out "inferior" peoples.
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Factor in the exchange rate. The Chinese and SE Asians are a little people. Takes more effort to genocide on the larger Euros.YellowSnow said:
Not a fair contest. China will always win any sort of raw numbers analysis.UW_Doog_Bot said:The correct answer is Mao. Highest body count, assisted and enabled multiple other genocides in SE Asia, and given the chance would have wiped out "inferior" peoples.
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Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet -
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet -
Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.YellowSnow said:
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet -
True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.YellowSnow said:
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet -
Path to serfdom my friend. He's just Trotsky.YellowSnow said:
True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.YellowSnow said:
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet
Also, having seen his cheap circus acts at his rally's I view him as a career politician who just found a platform to enrich himself. -
Nah, more like pre Thatcher Britain than Trotsky, but still...UW_Doog_Bot said:
Path to serfdom my friend. He's just Trotsky.YellowSnow said:
True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.YellowSnow said:
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet
Also, having seen his cheap circus acts at his rally's I view him as a career politician who just found a platform to enrich himself. -
And yet the media acts like a group that carries Soviet flags and wears Che Guevara shirts as “good” because the fight the white nationalists.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet
It’s almost like condemning egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides is the correct call. -
Unlike Lenin, Stalin is without question a villian of history who betrayed the revolution and created a personality cult police state.
But could the Soviets have endured the loss of 30 million soldiers and continued fighting without the personality cult of Stalin? Probably not.
It is objectively better for the world that the Soviets triumphed over Nazi Germany.
Can you envision a victorious Nazi Germany engaging in de-Hitlerization following his death like Khruschev did with Stalin in the 1950’s? -
Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.
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Bernie is similar to Attlee but with charismaYellowSnow said:
Nah, more like pre Thatcher Britain than Trotsky, but still...UW_Doog_Bot said:
Path to serfdom my friend. He's just Trotsky.YellowSnow said:
True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.YellowSnow said:
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet
Also, having seen his cheap circus acts at his rally's I view him as a career politician who just found a platform to enrich himself. -
tl;drYellowSnow said:Excellent TL; DR piece here in the debate of who was worse: Hitler or Stalin? I tend to lean towards Nazi Germany in this one. Stalin won the first half- i.e., 1933- 39 - in a blow out. But once the Germans got their reads down on foreign soil after 1939 it wasn't close.
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/01/27/hitler-vs-stalin-who-was-worse/
my take, based on absolutely nothing of any value, is that Stalin was just trying to get his guys out of there, while Hitler was just trying to get his guys in there. The latter is way worser. -
Replacing the Tsarist system with communism and beating back the western funded white armies was good.PurpleJ said:Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.
Stalin did Holodomor FYI. -
Lenin better than Stalin POTD.HardlyClothed said:
Replacing the Tsarist system with communism and beating back the western funded white armies was good.PurpleJ said:Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.
Stalin did Holodomor FYI.
But you're correct re: Ukrainian genocide.
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Yawn. You sound poor.HardlyClothed said:
Replacing the Tsarist system with communism and beating back the western funded white armies was good.PurpleJ said:Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.
Stalin did Holodomor FYI.
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Retribution for the pogroms. Both sides bad etc.YellowSnow said:
Lenin better than Stalin POTD.HardlyClothed said:
Replacing the Tsarist system with communism and beating back the western funded white armies was good.PurpleJ said:Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.
Stalin did Holodomor FYI.
But you're correct re: Ukrainian genocide. -
He's doing a great job of proving my point.YellowSnow said:
Lenin better than Stalin POTD.HardlyClothed said:
Replacing the Tsarist system with communism and beating back the western funded white armies was good.PurpleJ said:Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.
Stalin did Holodomor FYI.
But you're correct re: Ukrainian genocide. -
Socialism or communism require force and dead people and even after that Das Capital flees the country and you can't get a roll of fucking toilet paper
You don't hear folks saying stupid shit like Real Nazism has never been tried and if we just do it without killing the Jews it would be great -
It cannot and will not work every. That level of power in the hands of the state will always become corrupt.RaceBannon said:Socialism or communism require force and dead people and even after that Das Capital flees the country and you can't get a roll of fucking toilet paper
You don't hear folks saying stupid shit like Real Nazism has never been tried and if we just do it without killing the Jews it would be great -
There's a reason that communes don't ever succeed...
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In late, but who cares
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lyCh0sOlrE -
You can never be too late. I will have a listen to this today.GrundleStiltzkin said:In late, but who cares
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lyCh0sOlrE -
But most of his supporters are classic useful idiots. I had a long discussion with one on Saturday night. Most naive, child-like hypocrite I've ever talked to.YellowSnow said:
True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.YellowSnow said:
Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.RaceBannon said:Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.
And yet
Shockingly ironic statements throughout. Fuck both Communism and Socialism.
