NBA Playoff Megathread

Doogles said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

ugh the romanticization of 90s NBA defense is one of biggest sports misnomers ever

Jordan rules.

As I said, there is nothing LBJ can do to change this narrative. Nothing at all. Round in circles we go.

I mean he lost to a team with an aging star and a bunch of guys from the retirement in 2011 w/ Bosh and Wade. Ray Allen bails em out in 2013. Kyrie bails em out.


Difference between Lebron and Jordan?

Jordan hit the big shots. Although, Lebron hit one today.

https://youtu.be/S2BlOTeoZVE

Study up new fish!

Yes Kerr and Paxton. But, MJ hit a lot more important clutch shots in the playoffs than Lebron.

BaldwinIV said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

ugh the romanticization of 90s NBA defense is one of biggest sports misnomers ever

Jordan rules.

As I said, there is nothing LBJ can do to change this narrative. Nothing at all. Round in circles we go.

Jordan hit the big shots. Although, Lebron hit one today.

Cite your fucking source, there have been stats posted in this thread showing how LeBron has passed MJ in shots 5 seconds and under in the playoffs. If you aren't talking solely about that metric, then what metrics are you using to qualify "big shots?"

Until then I will dismiss any post of yours as the usual butthurt anti-LeBron bullshit people espouse.

Embarrassing.

Game icing shots are not counted in that metric.

backthepack said:

BaldwinIV said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

ugh the romanticization of 90s NBA defense is one of biggest sports misnomers ever

Jordan rules.

As I said, there is nothing LBJ can do to change this narrative. Nothing at all. Round in circles we go.

Jordan hit the big shots. Although, Lebron hit one today.

Cite your fucking source, there have been stats posted in this thread showing how LeBron has passed MJ in shots 5 seconds and under in the playoffs. If you aren't talking solely about that metric, then what metrics are you using to qualify "big shots?"

Until then I will dismiss any post of yours as the usual butthurt anti-LeBron bullshit people espouse.

Embarrassing.

Game icing shots are not counted in that metric.

Qualify what you mean by 'big shots', post the stats, or shut the fuck up kid.

backthepack said:

BaldwinIV said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

ugh the romanticization of 90s NBA defense is one of biggest sports misnomers ever

Jordan rules.

As I said, there is nothing LBJ can do to change this narrative. Nothing at all. Round in circles we go.

Jordan hit the big shots. Although, Lebron hit one today.

Cite your fucking source, there have been stats posted in this thread showing how LeBron has passed MJ in shots 5 seconds and under in the playoffs. If you aren't talking solely about that metric, then what metrics are you using to qualify "big shots?"

Until then I will dismiss any post of yours as the usual butthurt anti-LeBron bullshit people espouse.

Embarrassing.

Can't find the data because a lot of isn't tracked (80s-95ish). I just think of MJ's shots as more iconic.

Of course.

BaldwinIV said:

backthepack said:

BaldwinIV said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

backthepack said:

Gladstone said:

ugh the romanticization of 90s NBA defense is one of biggest sports misnomers ever

Jordan rules.

As I said, there is nothing LBJ can do to change this narrative. Nothing at all. Round in circles we go.

Jordan hit the big shots. Although, Lebron hit one today.

Cite your fucking source, there have been stats posted in this thread showing how LeBron has passed MJ in shots 5 seconds and under in the playoffs. If you aren't talking solely about that metric, then what metrics are you using to qualify "big shots?"

Until then I will dismiss any post of yours as the usual butthurt anti-LeBron bullshit people espouse.

Embarrassing.

Game icing shots are not counted in that metric.

Qualify what you mean by 'big shots', post the stats, or shut the fuck up kid.

You seem like you care.

RaceBannon said:

Lebron already beat GS in Game 7 on the road coming back from 1-3

*-Kyrie Irving

RaceBannon said:

WilburHooksHands said:

Gladstone said:

Who is angrier @haie or @BaldwinIV ??

TWoolves

http://twitter.com/ontheprowl_mn/status/989348439292071936?s=21

http://twitter.com/graphic__mark/status/989348864695197696?s=21

Take away those 4 80 yard TD runs and our rush defense played really well

Held them to 2.3 yards per carry. In fact when our defense doesn't give up the big run, they're actually pretty stout against it.

OKC had so many chances at the end of that game. Fucking losers.

CuntWaffle said:

OKC had so many chances at the end of that game. Fucking losers.

Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.

What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.

What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.

But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.

If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.

The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.

And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.

LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.

Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.

Tequilla said:

Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.

What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.

What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.

But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.

If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.

The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.

And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.

LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.

Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.

Embarrassingly stupid.