AZDuck's Considered Opinion on Southern Monuments
Likewise, if Virginians like their Robert E. Lee statues, they should be able to keep them. People in Charlottesville didn't like them anymore. It's really nobody else's business at that poont. I'm sure that Lynchburg and plenty of other towns in Virginia are still chock-full of Lee statues and Confederate symbols.
However, everyone should have a gimlet eye for Southern monuments which were erected as symbols of white supremacy during the Jim Crow period and especially post WW2, when, Southern "heritage" was becoming code for white supremacy and their exponents' and their desire to keep darkie down.
General Lee himself is a contradictory figure. Owned slaves, did not want Virginia to secede, but when it did, he followed his state. His plantation in Arlington was seized by the Federal government and turned into a war cemetery for Union soldiers, now known as Arlington National Cemetery. Tequilla referenced "Washington and Lee University." The "Lee" is because he served as the university's president after the Civil War, and his management helped prevent the closure of the institution.
Lee himself did not want Confederate symbology at his funeral, and disapproved of it generally.
Put another way, there's ONE monument to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel in Germany, despite his unquestioned talents as a leader and his opposition to Hitler. That monument is located where Rommel committed suicide rather than face trial by a Nazi kangaroo court.
And yes, the Rebellion of Treason in Defense of Slavery is roughly akin to Nazism on the good<---->bad spectrum. Anyone saying it was about state's rights needs to read the goddam Confederate constitution or the writings of any secessionists.
People in whose states and towns Civil War monuments are located can best decide how and whether they should continue to be displayed. If they are displayed, IMO, they should be accompanied with an interpretive plaque describing the role of slavery in the Confederacy, post-Civil War Reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the Civil Rights movement which helps to illustrate how the monument came to be.
TL;DR- if they like their racist monuments, they can keep them
Comments
-
Rommell definitely had the coolest nickname though.
-
While we are tearing down monuments can we get rid of anything related to that fucking pig Andrew Jackson.
-
I'm in. FTG.Swaye said:While we are tearing down monuments can we get rid of anything related to that fucking pig Andrew Jackson.
-
Fucking Scots-Irish white trash. We should have just kept electing classy Englishman from Virginia and Massachusetts.Swaye said:While we are tearing down monuments can we get rid of anything related to that fucking pig Andrew Jackson.
-
Well said AZ Duck. I don't care about a statue here or there provided it's been there for like a hundred years or so. I do vehemently object to Confederate flags of any sort being flown over public buildings or incorporated in stage flags. When you lose, you don't get to keep flying the flag. Them's the rules.
-
I agree with most of this. Although I think a very vocal minority takes advantage of todays ultra PC environment by demanding removal of Confederate and Southern icons. And others in power just follow suit as to not be black balled and ridiculed by SJW's as a racist.AZDuck said:As a son of the South, I took a lot of pride in some of these kinds of monuments as a kid. In particular, there's a monument to Dick Dowling for the Battle of Bolivar Pass which should never be torn down. Defense of Texas from invaders is always a good thing. Also too, the Alamo, San Jacinto, Goliad, the "Come and Take It" flag from Gonzalez (although it's been profaned).
Likewise, if Virginians like their Robert E. Lee statues, they should be able to keep them. People in Charlottesville didn't like them anymore. It's really nobody else's business at that poont. I'm sure that Lynchburg and plenty of other towns in Virginia are still chock-full of Lee statues and Confederate symbols.
However, everyone should have a gimlet eye for Southern monuments which were erected as symbols of white supremacy during the Jim Crow period and especially post WW2, when, Southern "heritage" was becoming code for white supremacy and their exponents' and their desire to keep darkie down.
General Lee himself is a contradictory figure. Owned slaves, did not want Virginia to secede, but when it did, he followed his state. His plantation in Arlington was seized by the Federal government and turned into a war cemetery for Union soldiers, now known as Arlington National Cemetery. Tequilla referenced "Washington and Lee University." The "Lee" is because he served as the university's president after the Civil War, and his management helped prevent the closure of the institution.
Lee himself did not want Confederate symbology at his funeral, and disapproved of it generally.
Put another way, there's ONE monument to Field Marshal Erwin Rommel in Germany, despite his unquestioned talents as a leader and his opposition to Hitler. That monument is located where Rommel committed suicide rather than face trial by a Nazi kangaroo court.
And yes, the Rebellion of Treason in Defense of Slavery is roughly akin to Nazism on the good<---->bad spectrum. Anyone saying it was about state's rights needs to read the goddam Confederate constitution or the writings of any secessionists.
People in whose states and towns Civil War monuments are located can best decide how and whether they should continue to be displayed. If they are displayed, IMO, they should be accompanied with an interpretive plaque describing the role of slavery in the Confederacy, post-Civil War Reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the Civil Rights movement which helps to illustrate how the monument came to be.
TL;DR- if they like their racist monuments, they can keep them
While those in the march were small minded idiots, it's best for everyone if you just let them exist in their own vacuum. Should they have been allowed to march in peace, none of this shit would have happened and they would have been ridiculed as the backward ass racists and idiots that they are. But harmless ones. You aren't going to change these people's minds on race issues. You just hope that they don't breed and pass that shit on. And when you fight them on the street, they are going to do some crazy shit. They have nothing to lose. -
Great post.
Other than Grants Pass I can't think of anything that has the winner on it. For instance the Federal refuge here is named after Joe Wheeler and the state park up the road on the Elk River is named after him too.
Essentially everything down here is named after a racist and the catch all is "It's tradition."
I lived in the area of Germany where almost all of the fighting took place and there are Nazi graves stones everywhere, but that's it. It's like the Rommel statue. They were honored where they died because they were Germans and they were fighting for Germany which is always a noble venture, but there isn't Nazi shit everywhere and everything named after them.
The love of racist, treasonous, losers over a hundred years later is pathetic. -
Being born in the north (phew) but growing up just across the river in the South in a progressive city, we were always taught in elementary school and on field trips that the memorial statue in town was facing south because Virginia fought for the Confederacy and it commemorated the dead Alexandrians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appomattox_(statue)
A short way from the statue is a stone historic marker with a bronze plaque upon which is engraved the following:
"THE CONFEDERATE STATUE
The unarmed Confederate soldier standing in
the intersection of Washington and Prince
Streets marks the location where units from
Alexandria left to join the Confederate Army
on May 24, 1861. The soldier is facing the
battlefields to the South where his comrades
fell during the War Between the States. The
names of those Alexandrians who died in service
for the Confederacy are inscribed on the base
of the statue. The title of the sculpture is
“Appomattox” by M. Casper Buberl.
The statue was erected in 1889 by the Robert E. Lee Camp
United Confederate Veterans."
A few years ago Alexandria, now even more liberal, began to discuss tearing the statue down or moving it. It has not gone anywhere, yet. I'm generally ok with it as it is since as far as I can tell there isn't hiding in this area from the fact that the war was over slavery. Similarly no one hides on Mt. Vernon that Washington owned slaves or in Monticello that Jefferson did.
I also remember very distinctly some quiz contest I did in elementary school (team format) where the answer to a question was The Battle of Bull Run and our team answered it as the Battle of Manassas, because that was what came to mind and we were taught both the Union and Confederate names for many battles. We were initially told we were wrong and then appealed and were given credit for getting it right. Confederate battle names matter!
The discussions are starting to occur about changing school names which were named for Confederates.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/fairfax-school-board-votes-to-change-name-of-jeb-stuart-high-school/2017/07/28/b5c45d44-7323-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.9f5b59a403b6
-
Take 'er down.
I like Generals who win; I don't like Generals who lose. They're losers and should not be celebrated.
Lee was a loser. -
He (literally) picked the wrong side. If Lee has stayed loyal to the Union, it's conceivable the North could have won by, say, 1863.creepycoug said:Take 'er down.
I like Generals who win; I don't like Generals who lose. They're losers and should not be celebrated.
Lee was a loser. -
I tend to think that what Mayor Landrieu said about Confederate monuments in NOLA applies to all of them. If you haven't watched or read this speech, you should.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81MkNgnXuY
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html?_r=0
-
Why didn't they do this shit like 100 years ago
-
-
The Lincoln second inauguration quote at the end was a nice touch.BearsWiin said:I tend to think that what Mayor Landrieu said about Confederate monuments in NOLA applies to all of them. If you haven't watched or read this speech, you should.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81MkNgnXuY
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html?_r=0 -
Is that Lenin statue still in Fremont?
-
I can't really find fault with Landrieus logic and agree on snuffing out the "Cult of the lost Cause" but to play devil's advocate, where do we draw the line? Is the line of demarcation those that committed treason- i.e., Lee, Jackson, Davis, etc? What about those who participated in and profited from the Peculiar Institution. Do we need to remove the Washington/Jefferson monuments?BearsWiin said:I tend to think that what Mayor Landrieu said about Confederate monuments in NOLA applies to all of them. If you haven't watched or read this speech, you should.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81MkNgnXuY
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html?_r=0 -
Statues that represent evil, hatred and bigotry, but are otherwise politically correct are allowed to stand.GrundleStiltzkin said:Is that Lenin statue still in Fremont?
-
Is it in front of a courthouse?Dude61 said:
Statues that represent evil, hatred and bigotry, but are otherwise politically correct are allowed to stand.GrundleStiltzkin said:Is that Lenin statue still in Fremont?
-
I don't know, but the irony is darkly delicious if Comrade Lenin stands on private property.UWhuskytskeet said:
Is it in front of a courthouse?Dude61 said:
Statues that represent evil, hatred and bigotry, but are otherwise politically correct are allowed to stand.GrundleStiltzkin said:Is that Lenin statue still in Fremont?
-
The Lennin statue is more like a cool souvenir. I liken it to "betting for shirts" in Men's Rowing. When you win a race, your vanquished opponents have to give you the shirt of their back (literally). In a drawer somewhere at home, I've got a bunch of CAL rowing shirts, for example. In this case, we whipped the USSR and we got a nice piece or memorabilia to commemorate the W.Dude61 said:
Statues that represent evil, hatred and bigotry, but are otherwise politically correct are allowed to stand.GrundleStiltzkin said:Is that Lenin statue still in Fremont?
-
-
No coach that goes .545 should have a statue erected in their honor.RaceBannon said:
-
Or a coach who has his Black players stay home so the DAWGS could give up 69 to UCLA
-
You guysm are funny: 69 and "erected"RaceBannon said:Or a coach who has his Black players stay home so the DAWGS could give up 69 to UCLA
Where's @Swaye at? -
Tearing down, rewriting and removing or destroying history history is never a good idea. It's what dictators and historically evil regimes have done. History is there to teach us and remind us so things don't happen again. It doesn't exist for emotional reasons. I've never been "offended" by history. It's in the past and cannot be changed.
Stop being a cunt if you're offended by things that happened long ago. Things changed. Men died to change it. GTFOI or GTFO. -
Helps Trump. IMOSledog said:Tearing down, rewriting and removing or destroying history history is never a good idea. It's what dictators and historically evil regimes have done. History is there to teach us and remind us so things don't happen again. It doesn't exist for emotional reasons. I've never been "offended" by history. It's in the past and cannot be changed.
Stop being a cunt if you're offended by things that happened long ago. Things changed. Men died to change it. GTFOI or GTFO. -
NiceRaceBannon said:Or a coach who has his Black players stay home so the DAWGS could give up 69 to UCLA
-
Because the culture of victimology and entitlement wasn't a factor.Pitchfork51 said:Why didn't they do this shit like 100 years ago
That and people were raciss as fuck 100 years ago. -
It's not an unwarranted concern. Once these things get rolling, hysteria takes over. See the Durham incident yesterday.YellowSnow said:
I can't really find fault with Landrieus logic and agree on snuffing out the "Cult of the lost Cause" but to play devil's advocate, where do we draw the line? Is the line of demarcation those that committed treason- i.e., Lee, Jackson, Davis, etc? What about those who participated in and profited from the Peculiar Institution. Do we need to remove the Washington/Jefferson monuments?BearsWiin said:I tend to think that what Mayor Landrieu said about Confederate monuments in NOLA applies to all of them. If you haven't watched or read this speech, you should.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81MkNgnXuY
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html?_r=0
