Question for the dirty, old TBSers
Comments
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Explain, professor.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
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Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below) -
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard -
What? Ill actually read your explanation if you have oneTequilla said:
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard -
It doesn't. Quit being a thin skinned cunt who is disagreeing simply to disagree.Tequilla said:
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard -
You assume a lot ... particularly in what you think that I think ... you assume wrong oftenRoadDawg55 said:
It doesn't. Quit being a thin skinned cunt who is disagreeing simply to disagree.Tequilla said:
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard -
I watched the Richland Bombers butt-hammer his ass multiple times. QB Holdren was at least as highly recrooted.
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There is a significant difference between offensive football today, particularly in the passing game, in the college level today as compared to 25 years ago. There's massive differences in route concepts, play calling, etc ... and that is on both sides of the ball. A few very quick examples:Baseman said:
What? Ill actually read your explanation if you have oneTequilla said:
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard
1) 1990 was in the midst of the run and shoot from Houston ... between Houston and what BYU was doing, the wide open passing game was few and far between at the time. The run and shoot had been run in various forms in the professional game but it was very new to the college game. Those offenses have led in many ways to the offshoot of the Mike Leach spread and many variations that have also spun the threat of the QB running out of the spread formation ... which has been very popular in Texas HS levels going on 15+ years now.
2) Passing in 1990 was generally viewed as a last resort ... if you take the top 3 teams in the PAC 12 that year (Washington, USC, and Oregon) on a per game average:
Washington: Ran the ball 43x per game, threw it 22x per game
USC: Ran the ball 45x per game, threw it 28x per game
Oregon: Ran the ball 42x per game, threw it 35x per game
In comparison, in 2016, in conference games, only Arizona and Stanford ran the ball on 60% or more of their offensive plays.
3) Go back and watch film of QB drops, fundamentals, etc. ... college kids today are way ahead of where they were 25 years ago. The QB position at the college level was still very developmental where massive growth from year to year was seen. Now, kids often come in early and while you still see improvement they are far better prepared whether it comes from their high schools running a heavy passing attack, QB development camps, 7 on 7's, etc. Brett Favre played for his Dad in HS and ran the option. Watch college footage of Mark Brunell and Billy Joe Hobert dropping back to pass ... often it was a backpedal.
In the last 5 years, there's always going to be innovation that is going to change what is being done. But by and large, there hasn't been any significant new developments in offensive theory in the college game over the last 5 years that make for an inadequate comparison. Many teams run the spread and the spread is run in both a run and pass focused basis. Nobody ran the option out of the shotgun 25 years ago. The option was run but it was way more consistent with the wishbone and the pass was not a serious concern. Today, take what Oregon, Ohio St, etc have done with running the spread option that has not sacrificed the threat of the passing game.
If you need more convincing, go back and watch for example the 1973 Sugar Bowl (or really any USC-based Rose Bowl from the 70s), the 1990 Rose Bowl (UW vs Iowa - pay attention to Iowa's formations), and then compare to what the UW offense of today is doing. The level of innovation is so much more today that it will blow your mind. For example, if you watch the 1973 Sugar Bowl (Notre Dame vs Alabama), you will realize that the offenses basically had at most 4-5 different plays/formations and each formation had about 3-4 play options off of it. It wasn't complicated at all. -
I was going to go with the fact that QBs with a 54.3% completion in college don't get drafted early now. But your analysis works too.Tequilla said:
There is a significant difference between offensive football today, particularly in the passing game, in the college level today as compared to 25 years ago. There's massive differences in route concepts, play calling, etc ... and that is on both sides of the ball. A few very quick examples:Baseman said:
What? Ill actually read your explanation if you have oneTequilla said:
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard
1) 1990 was in the midst of the run and shoot from Houston ... between Houston and what BYU was doing, the wide open passing game was few and far between at the time. The run and shoot had been run in various forms in the professional game but it was very new to the college game. Those offenses have led in many ways to the offshoot of the Mike Leach spread and many variations that have also spun the threat of the QB running out of the spread formation ... which has been very popular in Texas HS levels going on 15+ years now.
2) Passing in 1990 was generally viewed as a last resort ... if you take the top 3 teams in the PAC 12 that year (Washington, USC, and Oregon) on a per game average:
Washington: Ran the ball 43x per game, threw it 22x per game
USC: Ran the ball 45x per game, threw it 28x per game
Oregon: Ran the ball 42x per game, threw it 35x per game
In comparison, in 2016, in conference games, only Arizona and Stanford ran the ball on 60% or more of their offensive plays.
3) Go back and watch film of QB drops, fundamentals, etc. ... college kids today are way ahead of where they were 25 years ago. The QB position at the college level was still very developmental where massive growth from year to year was seen. Now, kids often come in early and while you still see improvement they are far better prepared whether it comes from their high schools running a heavy passing attack, QB development camps, 7 on 7's, etc. Brett Favre played for his Dad in HS and ran the option. Watch college footage of Mark Brunell and Billy Joe Hobert dropping back to pass ... often it was a backpedal.
In the last 5 years, there's always going to be innovation that is going to change what is being done. But by and large, there hasn't been any significant new developments in offensive theory in the college game over the last 5 years that make for an inadequate comparison. Many teams run the spread and the spread is run in both a run and pass focused basis. Nobody ran the option out of the shotgun 25 years ago. The option was run but it was way more consistent with the wishbone and the pass was not a serious concern. Today, take what Oregon, Ohio St, etc have done with running the spread option that has not sacrificed the threat of the passing game.
If you need more convincing, go back and watch for example the 1973 Sugar Bowl (or really any USC-based Rose Bowl from the 70s), the 1990 Rose Bowl (UW vs Iowa - pay attention to Iowa's formations), and then compare to what the UW offense of today is doing. The level of innovation is so much more today that it will blow your mind. For example, if you watch the 1973 Sugar Bowl (Notre Dame vs Alabama), you will realize that the offenses basically had at most 4-5 different plays/formations and each formation had about 3-4 play options off of it. It wasn't complicated at all. -
Up until the last few days I didn't think that the idea of comparing college QBs 25 years ago with today based on stats as if they were similar data sets was really debatable in that they were apples and oranges ...2001400ex said:
I was going to go with the fact that QBs with a 54.3% completion in college don't get drafted early now. But your analysis works too.Tequilla said:
There is a significant difference between offensive football today, particularly in the passing game, in the college level today as compared to 25 years ago. There's massive differences in route concepts, play calling, etc ... and that is on both sides of the ball. A few very quick examples:Baseman said:
What? Ill actually read your explanation if you have oneTequilla said:
Comparing 2011-2013 to 2016 is way more comparable to 1990 to 2016 ...RoadDawg55 said:
Says the guy who brought up Keith Price's stats to pretend he was good.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Comparing passing stats between 1990 and 2016 is really dumb.Baseman said:
This. Billy Joe Hobart was the Gatorade State Player of the year and if memory serves, was the #1 rated QB recruit nationally in '89.Dennis_DeYoung said:Bledsoe was a 5-star all everything recruit. At the time, our depth was stacked (Brunell, Hobert) and there was very little chance of him playing early.
On the other hand, it was obvious he would start from the get go at WSU. Back then WSU could get some big time kids still. His dad, Mac, was the coach at WWHS and wanted him to stay in state.
He came down to UW/WSU and went to WSU for early playing time. He started his true freshman year and left after his junior year.
Skinny and Drew were the same level of recruit. Max Browne and Brock Huard were about the same as well with the most recent 3 winning Gatorade POY for all of HS.
Billy Joe was a stud but Bledsoe was better. I saw both play in HS. Eason IMO was the better prospect (more polished) than Bledsoe out of HS. (Stats below)
If the why of that needs to be explained to you then you are a fucktard
1) 1990 was in the midst of the run and shoot from Houston ... between Houston and what BYU was doing, the wide open passing game was few and far between at the time. The run and shoot had been run in various forms in the professional game but it was very new to the college game. Those offenses have led in many ways to the offshoot of the Mike Leach spread and many variations that have also spun the threat of the QB running out of the spread formation ... which has been very popular in Texas HS levels going on 15+ years now.
2) Passing in 1990 was generally viewed as a last resort ... if you take the top 3 teams in the PAC 12 that year (Washington, USC, and Oregon) on a per game average:
Washington: Ran the ball 43x per game, threw it 22x per game
USC: Ran the ball 45x per game, threw it 28x per game
Oregon: Ran the ball 42x per game, threw it 35x per game
In comparison, in 2016, in conference games, only Arizona and Stanford ran the ball on 60% or more of their offensive plays.
3) Go back and watch film of QB drops, fundamentals, etc. ... college kids today are way ahead of where they were 25 years ago. The QB position at the college level was still very developmental where massive growth from year to year was seen. Now, kids often come in early and while you still see improvement they are far better prepared whether it comes from their high schools running a heavy passing attack, QB development camps, 7 on 7's, etc. Brett Favre played for his Dad in HS and ran the option. Watch college footage of Mark Brunell and Billy Joe Hobert dropping back to pass ... often it was a backpedal.
In the last 5 years, there's always going to be innovation that is going to change what is being done. But by and large, there hasn't been any significant new developments in offensive theory in the college game over the last 5 years that make for an inadequate comparison. Many teams run the spread and the spread is run in both a run and pass focused basis. Nobody ran the option out of the shotgun 25 years ago. The option was run but it was way more consistent with the wishbone and the pass was not a serious concern. Today, take what Oregon, Ohio St, etc have done with running the spread option that has not sacrificed the threat of the passing game.
If you need more convincing, go back and watch for example the 1973 Sugar Bowl (or really any USC-based Rose Bowl from the 70s), the 1990 Rose Bowl (UW vs Iowa - pay attention to Iowa's formations), and then compare to what the UW offense of today is doing. The level of innovation is so much more today that it will blow your mind. For example, if you watch the 1973 Sugar Bowl (Notre Dame vs Alabama), you will realize that the offenses basically had at most 4-5 different plays/formations and each formation had about 3-4 play options off of it. It wasn't complicated at all.
