The Phony In Chief

HFNY said:

What's to say that flooding Cuba with $$$$$ isn't going to empower the Communist Cuban leadership from staying in power?

And did you read the article...the jailing of protesters and even of the dissident Cuban-American who had met with the Feds before returning to Cuba?

Hillary will probably be President and doubt she'd visit Cuba like that unless it was on her terms. Obama is concerned about his legacy but fortunately we'll have a new President (only Republican who has a shot of beating her in the general election is Kasich) who will bring some balls and stipulations to the table.

LOL

I think I'm okay with opening up relations with Cuba. The embargo clearly failed.

I'm not okay with making a celebration and party out of it to turn it into one big photo op. I'm with Dan Le Batard on this one (#ThingsIveNeverSaidBefore).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdZEKYJyco4

dnc said:

I think I'm okay with opening up relations with Cuba. The embargo clearly failed.

I'm not okay with making a celebration and party out of it to turn it into one big photo op. I'm with Dan Le Batard on this one (#ThingsIveNeverSaidBefore).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdZEKYJyco4

Am I missing something though? The lifting of embargoes has always led to less suffering for the citizens, even with the inevitability of the dictators taking a bulk of the increased trade dollars for themselves (see the most recent example of Iran). Basic economics tells us that the lifted embargo will create jobs that were previously nonexistent, give the Cubans a lot more purchasing power, and increase the variety of goods available in the country. The Castros and the ruling elite will of course benefit the most from this, but I don't see how it's possible for them to make it a net negative for the Cuban population as a whole even if they tried to do so.

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the idea that opening Cuba up for trade poses any kind of threat to our national security.

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

That literally ended with the fall of the Soviet Union. The embargo has been completely pointless since 1991, it has nothing to do with bleeding hearts, it's just fucking retarded.

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the idea that opening Cuba up for trade poses any kind of threat to our national security.

We don't trade with countries led by a dictator that wants to blow us up when trade gives the dictator the resources needed to blow us up. Are you really not getting this, or are you just fucking with me?

And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?

If they had a different leader then, yes, absolutely. But as long as they have the Castro's in charge or something similar, our country needs to be closed for business. Risk>>>Benefit

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the idea that opening Cuba up for trade poses any kind of threat to our national security.

We don't trade with countries led by a dictator that wants to blow us up when trade gives the dictator the resources needed to blow us up. Are you really not getting this, or are you just fucking with me?

And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?

If they had a different leader then, yes, absolutely. But as long as they have the Castro's in charge or something similar, our country needs to be closed for business. Risk>>>Benefit

You are retarded if you think Cuba wants to, let alone has the capability, to "blow us up". That's Sledog level of fear mongering.

"And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?"

We could embargo half of the world and not miss a beat, but it's still a shitty policy that serves no purpose. It's a horrible holdover from the cold war nothing else.

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the idea that opening Cuba up for trade poses any kind of threat to our national security.

We don't trade with countries led by a dictator that wants to blow us up when trade gives the dictator the resources needed to blow us up. Are you really not getting this, or are you just fucking with me?

And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?

If they had a different leader then, yes, absolutely. But as long as they have the Castro's in charge or something similar, our country needs to be closed for business. Risk>>>Benefit

We don't? I don't doubt for a second that Russia, China, and Iran would blow us straight to hell if they were even remotely capable of doing so. Yet we still trade with them. Cuba on the other hand isn't even a speck on our military radar; they are a totally neutered adversary. The Castros couldn't even throw a rock over the fence of Guantanamo Bay before their entire presidential compound would be obliterated. Giving them some extra trade dollars is not going to change that.

Again Risk>>>Benefit. We get something in return from these countries that Cuba can't provide.

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the idea that opening Cuba up for trade poses any kind of threat to our national security.

We don't trade with countries led by a dictator that wants to blow us up when trade gives the dictator the resources needed to blow us up. Are you really not getting this, or are you just fucking with me?

And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?

If they had a different leader then, yes, absolutely. But as long as they have the Castro's in charge or something similar, our country needs to be closed for business. Risk>>>Benefit

You are retarded if you think Cuba wants to, let alone has the capability, to "blow us up". That's Sledog level of fear mongering.

"And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?"

We could embargo half of the world and not miss a beat, but it's still a shitty policy that serves no purpose. It's a horrible holdover from the cold war nothing else.

If it wasn't for the embargo Cuba would already have a nuke, if not multiple nukes. You bleeding heart liberals are pathetic. All it takes is a few terms with liberal leadership and our country becomes a laughing stock, and held hostage by inferior governments.

Yeah the embargo served a purpose when Cuba housed soviet missiles, but hasn't served any purpose for decades.

Has nothing to do with bleeding hearts, the US government doesn't need to prevent me from travelling to a benign country. Castro is generally shitty to his citizens, but so are the governments of half the world, yet I'm free to travel pretty much any where else.

Fuck, I can travel to North Korea (a country that actually has nukes, and is actually threatening the US) any time I want.

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

greenblood said:

UWhuskytskeet said:

Normalizing relations with Cuba will change Cuba faster than ignoring them like we've done for 60 years. The embargo has been completely worthless, there is no way to argue otherwise.

Flooding Cuba with American investments is going to empower Cuban citizens to make any changes they want.

Or provide more funding for Fidel's regime, but what's the difference?

What's special about Cuba over Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any of the other shitty countries that we have relationships with?

China is still generally shitty, but is light years beyond what they were before opening their economy. They hardly even pass as communist at this point.

Cuba doesn't have anything we want. Why would we play ball with a tyrant when we benefit nothing in return.

We tolerate China because they give us cheap stuff and own a good chunk of our economy, we tolerate Saudi Arabia because of oil, and we tolerate Russia, because they have political power. Cuba on the other hand, brings nothing to the table. So why put up with this tyrant dictator and his bullshit?

The Castros aren't a threat to us at any level, in any way. At this point, we've just been allowing the Cuban citizens to be mired in poverty for no reason other than tensions from half a century ago. Have we become so calloused that the lives of 11 million oppressed Cubans should play no role in our foreign policy decisions?

They are no longer a threat because Russia has stopped supporting them. Russia held them as an ally because Cuba gave them an opportunity to set up military bases in their country to set up a presence in the Caribbean. Technological advances made that unnecessary, so Russia also has no need for them.

While Cuba was being funded, they were absolutely a threat. Giving Castro's regime money is like giving them a loaded gun and asking him to shoot us with it.

But no, I think the bleeding heart approach works best.

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the idea that opening Cuba up for trade poses any kind of threat to our national security.

We don't trade with countries led by a dictator that wants to blow us up when trade gives the dictator the resources needed to blow us up. Are you really not getting this, or are you just fucking with me?

And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?

If they had a different leader then, yes, absolutely. But as long as they have the Castro's in charge or something similar, our country needs to be closed for business. Risk>>>Benefit

You are retarded if you think Cuba wants to, let alone has the capability, to "blow us up". That's Sledog level of fear mongering.

"And again, where do we benefit, outside of having another beach to visit for vacation?"

We could embargo half of the world and not miss a beat, but it's still a shitty policy that serves no purpose. It's a horrible holdover from the cold war nothing else.

If it wasn't for the embargo Cuba would already have a nuke, if not multiple nukes. You bleeding heart liberals are pathetic. All it takes is a few terms with liberal leadership and our country becomes a laughing stock, and held hostage by inferior governments.

Yeah the embargo served a purpose when Cuba housed soviet missiles, but hasn't served any purpose for decades.

Has nothing to do with bleeding hearts, the US government doesn't need to prevent me from travelling to a benign country. Castro is generally shitty to his citizens, but so are the governments of half the world, yet I'm free to travel pretty much any where else.

Fuck, I can travel to North Korea (a country that actually has nukes, and is actually threatening the US) any time I want.

Is this about travel?

You can travel to Cuba, you just have to go throw Mexico or Canada first. I could have saved you a lot of trouble if I knew that.