If this is true, Marquese Chriss will be selling the couch
Chriss is the fastest riser on our Big Board 5.0. The 18-year-old forward has been on a tear lately, averaging nearly 20 points per game over his past four Pac-12 contests, including an impressive 24 points against Utah on Wednesday.
He's very raw still. But his length, athleticism and versatility have scouts drooling. If he can keep up this play the rest of the year, he should be a surprise lottery pick.
Murray's at 28.
Murray can be a wild man on the court. But that would be a 6-foot-5, athletic, aggressive wild man who, when he's on, can wow you.If these ranks are anything close to how scouts see them come decision time, I'd advise Chriss to jump and Murray to come back.
He's shooting 28 percent on his 2-point jumpers and just 30 percent from 3-point range, so there are major things to work on. But the raw talent really excites scouts.
Comments
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Chriss will be a bench/D league guy if he leaves this year.
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They also changed the early entry rules in 2015 to better help underclassmen know their status with an expanded combine and not losing eligibility after declaring for the draft early.
Might be interesting to see how these things affect Chriss and Murray -
He won't be a D-league player, but more than likely he isn't going to walk in and start. The difference is that he has the raw talent and needs more time to fill out his body and adjust his game. I would argue that staying at UW if he can be near the lottery and a lock 1st rounder would be absolutely stupid. Romar is not a developer of bigs, never has been, never will be. So you're better off taking your 3 years in the league and build up your body and try to make it there.CuntWaffle said:Chriss will be a bench/D league guy if he leaves this year.
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Fuck
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Better give Romar an extension, 2030 might be special
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Sounds like I care, but I don't. Stay, leave, whatever, Romar's retention has killed any interest or passion I have for the hoops program.
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So, that was our big run? An NIT berth?
I can totally see why we had to keep Romar. -
It's a bit early to be betting on a NIT birth. This whole season could come to a crashing halt with a couple of losses to the bay area teamsBayDawg said:So, that was our big run? An NIT berth?
I can totally see why we had to keep Romar. -
If Chriss was a one-and-done, he'd have to be a uniquely special case to succeed at the pro level. I looked into it, and in the last 5 years there have been a grand total of *3* players who went one-and-done without being a 5*, nationally heralded recruit:
1) Ben McLemore - was a national superstar on one of the nations best teams in college, now struggling to develop in Sacramento
2) Moe Harkless - average, nothing more than a rotational player for the Blazers
3) Zach Lavine - everyone was baffled when he left early... does great in dunk contests but is an average at best player for the wolves
Then there are many guys who were 5* studs who have busted hard in the pros, and probably should've waited to leave. Josh Selby, Marquis Teague, Quincy Miller, Grant Jarrett just to name a few.
I'm not saying Chriss won't be successful if he leaves early, just that history is definitely against him if he wants to be a one-and-done. -
Chriss would be a 3 in the NBA. One thing I've never seen him do is handle the ball.NEsnake12 said:If Chriss was a one-and-done, he'd have to be a uniquely special case to succeed at the pro level. I looked into it, and in the last 5 years there have been a grand total of *3* players who went one-and-done without being a 5*, nationally heralded recruit:
1) Ben McLemore - was a national superstar on one of the nations best teams in college, now struggling to develop in Sacramento
2) Moe Harkless - average, nothing more than a rotational player for the Blazers
3) Zach Lavine - everyone was baffled when he left early... does great in dunk contests but is an average at best player for the wolves
Then there are many guys who were 5* studs who have busted hard in the pros, and probably should've waited to leave. Josh Selby, Marquis Teague, Quincy Miller, Grant Jarrett just to name a few.
I'm not saying Chriss won't be successful if he leaves early, just that history is definitely against him if he wants to be a one-and-done.
That's a glaring hole considering the guys he'd have to create against at that level.
Murray could use some bulk still. And for a shooting guard, his outside shooting is streaky at best.
That being said, both guys could probably leave now and secure a few million and hope the rest develops in the league over 2-3 years. -
Some of you guys have zero knowledge of the NBA. Of course Chriss isn't going to be good his rookie year. If he does start it's because he plays for a terrible team.
I agree with CuntWaffle that he could be a D-League guy. It's not really an indictment of his ability, but he can hardly stay on the court in college. He's actually logged a lot of minutes the past few games. Before then, he fouled out or was in foul trouble every single game. He averages 4.1 fouls per game. I wouldn't be shocked if that was the highest in the country. He won't be able to guard anyone in the NBA. -
Chriss is a 4 in the NBA. 6'9" 225 right now. He will be 6'9" 240 in a year or two. He's a skinnier, probably more athletic Terrance Jones right now.ThomasFremont said:
Chriss would be a 3 in the NBA. One thing I've never seen him do is handle the ball.NEsnake12 said:If Chriss was a one-and-done, he'd have to be a uniquely special case to succeed at the pro level. I looked into it, and in the last 5 years there have been a grand total of *3* players who went one-and-done without being a 5*, nationally heralded recruit:
1) Ben McLemore - was a national superstar on one of the nations best teams in college, now struggling to develop in Sacramento
2) Moe Harkless - average, nothing more than a rotational player for the Blazers
3) Zach Lavine - everyone was baffled when he left early... does great in dunk contests but is an average at best player for the wolves
Then there are many guys who were 5* studs who have busted hard in the pros, and probably should've waited to leave. Josh Selby, Marquis Teague, Quincy Miller, Grant Jarrett just to name a few.
I'm not saying Chriss won't be successful if he leaves early, just that history is definitely against him if he wants to be a one-and-done.
That's a glaring hole considering the guys he'd have to create against at that level.
Murray could use some bulk still. And for a shooting guard, his outside shooting is streaky at best.
That being said, both guys could probably leave now and secure a few million and hope the rest develops in the league over 2-3 years. -
RoadDawg has this mostly dialed in. Chriss' biggest weakness is his inability to stay out of foul trouble. He's made strides in that the last few games but it's hard to say he's figured it out. Staying on the court at this level is a challenge, at the next level it will nearly impossible.
That said, he's a stretch 4 in the NBA who also brings you shot blocking ability which is a bonus over a lot of stretch 4's. Jones is a good comp skills wise, but he's definitely more athletic than Jones. And obviously lighter.
If he could stay on the court he'd be a rotational guy at worst right now. Since he can't he's probably a deep bench guy or a guy who'll play as many rotational minutes as foul trouble will allow. This is where I break from Roadie's analysis. I don't see him ever going to the D league. Even with the foul trouble issue he's too damn good.
NESnake's historical analysis is really interesting. Chriss wasn't even a particularly high 4 star (like Murray), if you broke the 4 stars into 5 equal groups based on overall ranking, 4A, 4B, 4C, etc, Chriss would be towards the bottom of the B group or top of the C group.
I do think his late growth spurt gives some explanation for him being an extreme outlier. Playing on the same team as Murray, a guy scouts were very aware of coming in doesn't hurt either. I'm sure a lot of guys earlier in the year came to see Murray but were shocked by Chriss' raw talents. Hell, that's pretty much how the year has been for me. -
CuntWaffle said:
Chriss will be a bench/D league guy if he leaves this year.
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If Chriss and Murray were smart, they'd stay in school for another 1-2 years. Master the current level that you are playing at before going to the next level. Yes, I get the whole "player development" thing under Romar but there is more to it than that. Get more developed from a maturity standpoint (and Romar is generally viewed as being good at that).
The idea of Chriss being a modern stretch 4 makes a lot of sense to me. In some ways, I see a lot of Chris Bosh in him in the ability to go both inside and out with the potential to be a very flexible and unique defender that can guard multiple positions (once he learns how to play without fouling).
I know most don't agree with this, but the reality is that if you leave to the NBA too early it can stunt your development and you pretty much won't hit your ceiling. The fallacy is that there's a lot of player development in the NBA. When you're busy traveling from city to city you aren't getting full practices or whatnot. -
Very true. Not to mention being a 19 or 20 year old kid all alone in hotel rooms for a six game road trip. There is so much more that goes into other than having more time to train and access to the best coaches and trainers.Tequilla said:If Chriss and Murray were smart, they'd stay in school for another 1-2 years. Master the current level that you are playing at before going to the next level. Yes, I get the whole "player development" thing under Romar but there is more to it than that. Get more developed from a maturity standpoint (and Romar is generally viewed as being good at that).
The idea of Chriss being a modern stretch 4 makes a lot of sense to me. In some ways, I see a lot of Chris Bosh in him in the ability to go both inside and out with the potential to be a very flexible and unique defender that can guard multiple positions (once he learns how to play without fouling).
I know most don't agree with this, but the reality is that if you leave to the NBA too early it can stunt your development and you pretty much won't hit your ceiling. The fallacy is that there's a lot of player development in the NBA. When you're busy traveling from city to city you aren't getting full practices or whatnot. -
I don't think anybody would try to agrue that Murray and Chriss don't have the talent to be able to play in the NBA. But it is also a grown man's league ... and right now, they aren't grown men.RoadDawg55 said:
Very true. Not to mention being a 19 or 20 year old kid all alone in hotel rooms for a six game road trip. There is so much more that goes into other than having more time to train and access to the best coaches and trainers.Tequilla said:If Chriss and Murray were smart, they'd stay in school for another 1-2 years. Master the current level that you are playing at before going to the next level. Yes, I get the whole "player development" thing under Romar but there is more to it than that. Get more developed from a maturity standpoint (and Romar is generally viewed as being good at that).
The idea of Chriss being a modern stretch 4 makes a lot of sense to me. In some ways, I see a lot of Chris Bosh in him in the ability to go both inside and out with the potential to be a very flexible and unique defender that can guard multiple positions (once he learns how to play without fouling).
I know most don't agree with this, but the reality is that if you leave to the NBA too early it can stunt your development and you pretty much won't hit your ceiling. The fallacy is that there's a lot of player development in the NBA. When you're busy traveling from city to city you aren't getting full practices or whatnot.
Murray needs to be able to develop a consistent jump shot and mid range game. Right now, it's fairly easy for defenders to take about 3-4 steps off of him to size up and plan the help defense around his penetration because he can't consistently make a mid range jump shot. On top of that, he needs incremental variety in his penetration/isolation game because there's not a ton of mid range that I see in it ... it's pretty much get all the way to the basket. Moreover, he needs additional poise and seasoning when it comes to picking and choosing his spots better for making the fundamental play/pass versus going for the jugular. Too often (and not unexpectedly because of his youth) he tries to make the spectacular play and leaves points on the court as a result.
Chriss has a very nice mid range game and some very nice post moves. Obviously, the ability to stay on the court by being able to play consistent positional defense goes without saying. Offensively, he can stand to not only improve his ball handling, but also his passing ability as one of the areas where he can be the most effective going forward in the NBA will be by being able to punish teams for going small by posting up (creating mismatches) or by allowing his own team to go small and his ability to pull bigs away from the hoop. That also leads into the need to be able to develop a consistent and reliable outside shot where he can space the court.
Between both Murray and Chriss, they would have a tremendous opportunity to develop a very strong 2 man game if they allow it to develop.
There's a lot of pressure when it comes to playing for money. The results matter more than the process. In college, while results matter, the pressure is less and you're able to more consistently be able to go get your work in without anybody watching or paying attention. Going into one of the many back gyms at Hec Ed and shooting 1,000 jumpers a day would be beneficial to both of these guys. Drills drills drills.
Both of these guys have the chance to not only be strong NBA players some day, but I could also see these guys as potential All Stars (particularly Chriss). Let it come though and develop. Don't push it and put yourself in a bad position, with either a bad organization that can't develop players or with a good organization where the opportunities to develop on the court becomes limited. You can do all the drills that you want behind closed doors but ultimately you have to take those drills onto the court and execute them during a game to reinforce the confidence. Taking big time reps in college are the training wheels for taking big time reps in the NBA. -
I'm pretty certain they are having fun, playing college ball together.
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That's definitely a glaring hole. I remember watching Chriss' high school highlights, and thinking that despite all the athleticism he looks very awkward when he has to put it on the floor and drive. And that was against high school competition. Given the fact that he's a stretch 4 and not a post up forward like a Noah Dickerson, he really needs to develop that part of his game. If NBA defenders know he's going to take his bread and butter turn-around jumper 9/10 times, they'll find a way to stop it.ThomasFremont said:
Chriss would be a 3 in the NBA. One thing I've never seen him do is handle the ball.NEsnake12 said:If Chriss was a one-and-done, he'd have to be a uniquely special case to succeed at the pro level. I looked into it, and in the last 5 years there have been a grand total of *3* players who went one-and-done without being a 5*, nationally heralded recruit:
1) Ben McLemore - was a national superstar on one of the nations best teams in college, now struggling to develop in Sacramento
2) Moe Harkless - average, nothing more than a rotational player for the Blazers
3) Zach Lavine - everyone was baffled when he left early... does great in dunk contests but is an average at best player for the wolves
Then there are many guys who were 5* studs who have busted hard in the pros, and probably should've waited to leave. Josh Selby, Marquis Teague, Quincy Miller, Grant Jarrett just to name a few.
I'm not saying Chriss won't be successful if he leaves early, just that history is definitely against him if he wants to be a one-and-done.
That's a glaring hole considering the guys he'd have to create against at that level.
Murray could use some bulk still. And for a shooting guard, his outside shooting is streaky at best.
That being said, both guys could probably leave now and secure a few million and hope the rest develops in the league over 2-3 years. -
Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is. -
Not that I necessarily disagree with your first sentence, but there are extenuating circumstances. When your coach is such a dumbfuck to switch every single ball screen, it doesn't help.ThomasFremont said:Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is.
I can't see either Chriss or Murray in the NBA next year. But then again, I could not imagine Wroten in the NBA after his FR year. But in hindsight, it was a great move for him. He's made over $5 million over the past 4 years. Whether he has success on the court or not, there is no way he makes that kind of money in his entire lifetime without the stupidity of the NBA. -
I guess it just depends on what they think is the better track; get paid to develop in the NBA with a hard deadline to show results or GTFO, or play for free in college and have time to work on your game before going pro and starting that clock. They both have lots of potential, but neither is a lock to succeed at that level right now.HuskyInAZ said:
Not that I necessarily disagree with your first sentence, but there are extenuating circumstances. When your coach is such a dumbfuck to switch every single ball screen, it doesn't help.ThomasFremont said:Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is.
I can't see either Chriss or Murray in the NBA next year. But then again, I could not imagine Wroten in the NBA after his FR year. But in hindsight, it was a great move for him. He's made over $5 million over the past 4 years. Whether he has success on the court or not, there is no way he makes that kind of money in his entire lifetime without the stupidity of the NBA. -
I'd say being a college bball fan i would much prefer the players stay at UW for at least another year or two. It would be better for college and for the nba. That being said that currently is a dream and not reality. If you want to talk reality it's absolutely moronic to stay in school and risk losing the "potential" tag if you can get into the 1st round. Sure, if you're around the 25+ pick then that's extremely risky and I wouldn't suggest it, however if you're at 15 what exactly do you have to prove in college. At that point you're going to the nba, work on your game all day with professional coaches and players and you're locked into 3 years to get your shit together.
Chriss needs to add bulk, but his game is going to be better at the nba than it is in college. The game is more spread out, more isolation and match ups. Yes, we all know he has trouble guarding people and fouling, however a good coach will get that cleaned up. There are zero guarantee he gets that cleaned up playing under romar for another 1-2 years.
Keep in mind a guy like Chriss doesn't have to be an all-star out of the gate, or even a starter. He needs to start building his body and improving. There are many examples for either side of the argument to cherry pick, but considering romar has done zero in developing bigs, I'd tell him to sell the couch if he's a mid 1st rounder.
Also to be fair, TW should have come back because he can't shoot or dribble with one of his hands but wants to be a PG. This presents massive problems for longevity in the league. Chriss needs bulk and needs to get away from cheap fouls, both very fixable at the next level. -
To me it's all about the draft stock. If you're projected in the middle of the first round or above, I think you have to go. There are too many things that can go wrong if you don't. If you're projected around the end of the first round, there's a good shot you slip into the no guaranteed money of the second round. Most people in that situation should stay (unless you're Isaiah Thomas and never going to get into the first round solidly no matter what you do, but that's rare).ThomasFremont said:
I guess it just depends on what they think is the better track; get paid to develop in the NBA with a hard deadline to show results or GTFO, or play for free in college and have time to work on your game before going pro and starting that clock. They both have lots of potential, but neither is a lock to succeed at that level right now.HuskyInAZ said:
Not that I necessarily disagree with your first sentence, but there are extenuating circumstances. When your coach is such a dumbfuck to switch every single ball screen, it doesn't help.ThomasFremont said:Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is.
I can't see either Chriss or Murray in the NBA next year. But then again, I could not imagine Wroten in the NBA after his FR year. But in hindsight, it was a great move for him. He's made over $5 million over the past 4 years. Whether he has success on the court or not, there is no way he makes that kind of money in his entire lifetime without the stupidity of the NBA.
If Ford's rankings are a good indicator of where these guys stock really is, I'd advise Chriss to go and Murray to stay. -
He can't guard a 3 either. I'm not sure he will ever be able to guard anyone. Chriss could be a great college player next year, but he doesn't have a high basketball IQ, which is why he can't anticipate and why he's in foul trouble every game. That doesn't work in the NBA. Maybe some of that is because he is young and raw, but it is also something that comes naturally to many players. Murray for example, has the natural instincts. He's just missing the body and a more reliable shot.ThomasFremont said:Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is.
He's good, but I don't see him ever being actually good in the NBA. He's a tweener like Darrell Arthur, Hakim Warrick, etc. All super athletic players, but without great instincts or a true position. It doesn't mean he can't play, but the really good players in the NBA all have natural instincts that based on what I've seen, Chriss doesn't have. -
Exactly. He just started playing basketball a few years ago. Makes me think some floor experience in college would benefit him more than riding the bench in the league.RoadDawg55 said:
He can't guard a 3 either. I'm not sure he will ever be able to guard anyone. Chriss could be a great college player next year, but he doesn't have a high basketball IQ, which is why he can't anticipate and why he's in foul trouble every game. That doesn't work in the NBA. Maybe some of that is because he is young and raw, but it is also something that comes naturally to many players. Murray for example, has the natural instincts. He's just missing the body and a more reliable shot.ThomasFremont said:Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is.
He's good, but I don't see him ever being actually good in the NBA. He's a tweener like Darrell Arthur, Hakim Warrick, etc. All super athletic players, but without great instincts or a true position. It doesn't mean he can't play, but the really good players in the NBA all have natural instincts that based on what I've seen, Chriss doesn't have. -
The big question is will his instincts improve as he spends more time around the game and gets more coaching? I don't think Arthur or Warrick had such little hoops experience. It's at least fathomable that Chriss' BBIQ improves as he moves forward. Just probably not while he plays for Romar, who has developed the hell out of some guards but not really any bigs.RoadDawg55 said:
He can't guard a 3 either. I'm not sure he will ever be able to guard anyone. Chriss could be a great college player next year, but he doesn't have a high basketball IQ, which is why he can't anticipate and why he's in foul trouble every game. That doesn't work in the NBA. Maybe some of that is because he is young and raw, but it is also something that comes naturally to many players. Murray for example, has the natural instincts. He's just missing the body and a more reliable shot.ThomasFremont said:Not sure I agree Chriss is an NBA 4. He can't even guard that position in college.
Between his foul trouble and the string of big men that just pushed UW's shit in the past few games, I don't see it.
Unless he plays on a team that runs a small lineup like Golden State, I see him as a 3 like Rashard Lewis was or Harrison Barnes is.
He's good, but I don't see him ever being actually good in the NBA. He's a tweener like Darrell Arthur, Hakim Warrick, etc. All super athletic players, but without great instincts or a true position. It doesn't mean he can't play, but the really good players in the NBA all have natural instincts that based on what I've seen, Chriss doesn't have. -
It still comes down to projection. If chriss is that high of a pick, you go and develop in the league and get paid. At worst, having warricks career isn't exactly terrible. 9 years in the league and 21 million in pay. I know he doesn't get all that $, but still not a terrible gig. If chriss stays in school for 1-2 years and really doesn't show any more potential he may never see an nba team.
nba is like fraternity. If he can get in and play a few years there is at least a good shot he stays for 5+ years and maybe more if his ceiling is what others think it is. Staying at UW delays his rookie contract and he may not ever move up the draft boards b/c there is always a new crop of super frosh with more potential coming in.
I hope he stays, but he really shouldn't if fords rankings are anywhere near reality(which is also more suspect than chriss chances in the league) -
#WEAREAGETGUYSTOTHENBASCHOOL?
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As much as i hate romar as least he puts guys in the nba and they have careers. I'd shoot myself if UW hired ernie kent after firing rivals assistant who couldn't get it done.salemcoog said:#WEAREAGETGUYSTOTHENBASCHOOL?
