Woodward Sells the Couch
Comments
-
No one currently at UW deserves this job. Blow it the fuck up and bring an experienced AD in here.
-
Warning: TL, DR thoughts comingDoog_de_Jour said:
Wow. After reading that I'm worried Woodward leaving is going to be a jumping from the frying pan into the fire type situation.Tequilla said:Hiring Cohen in my mind basically confirms the budget issues that have been rumored in the Athletic Department and really aren't all that shocking given the poor attendance for football this year and basketball the last few years. Since the UW AD has never been supported by having the kind of whale donators that you see so often in the SEC, Big 12, etc., when we're light in Joe Alumni's support, it creates problems. It's a strong indicator in my mind why Romar's got so much job security (when he shouldn't) because we don't have the means in place to cover his buyout.
The joke of the matter in all of this though is that what is needed is an experienced AD that really knows how to mobilize a base and turn around the budget deficit. It takes money to make money.
The other big issue that Pepsi brings up that is 100% true is that the AD needs a strong overhaul, particularly with regard to the marketing of the program as well as in-game presentation. From the surveys that have been sent out this year, it's clear that the AD realizes there is a problem but the general sense is that there aren't a lot of answers or solutions coming from within (and that's not surprising given that they've had to resort to sending out the surveys and that it ever got to that point). It would IMO be very difficult for Cohen to take over the lead spot in the AD and make all the moves necessary given the familiarity and closeness with the program. She may make some changes but it will likely only be a fraction of what is needed and moreover there's always the question of what kind of buy in that she would get from the department as a whole from those that either wanted other people or even the job themselves.
The reality is that the problems in the UW AD start with the current administration as a whole but also extends to the alumni/donor base as well. It's really the #1 priority for the sports programs at this point.
If money is an issue, is there a viable economical alternative to hiring someone internal? I know we're afraid of UW being anyone's training wheels, but wouldn't it be better to get some hungry, ambitious individual from a smaller school that would at least bring in some fresh ideas?
The problems as I see it ... and for the record, I don't have any unique insight other than just paying attention to things around me and being a #TCUMBASuperiorityGuy
If you go to Rempe's bio on the UW Athletic Page, you see that the UW AD Budget is about $75M per year. To fuck up a Budget in that range is really difficult to do IMO unless you are having some significant revenue shortfalls. Anybody that has any clue would be building in at least some kind of buffer into the Budget to cover contingencies. If I was running through the process of creating a UW Budget, I'd expect that I'd probably put it in the neighborhood of $2-$5M to cover anything from revenue shortfalls to contingent buyouts, projected unscheduled retention raises, etc.
Now, if you look for example at UW football for this year, average attendance this year was 60,691 with the Apple Cup being the only game where attendance was over 62,000 at just over 70,000. Let's assume that the Athletic Department budgeted conservatively (in their mind) and set the ticket expectation at 65,000 for average attendance at an average ticket price of $70 per ticket. Over the course of a 7 game schedule, the total revenue shortfall compared to budget would be over $2M.
There was a UW Dawg Pound article towards the end of last basketball season that placed 2014-2015 attendance at around 6,300-6,400 per game versus a capacity of around 10,000. Again, let's assume for simplicity that UW budgeted around 7,000 per game on average so that the gap was about 500-700 tickets on average per game. In 2015-2016 season, UW plays 17 home games. Let's say that the average ticket price per game is $35. You're looking there at a budget shortfall of somewhere around $300-$500k depending on assumptions. I'd probably say that the estimate should probably be on the higher end as I would expect that some of the shortfall is coming on Tyee seating that is also reducing donor funding ... also probably true for football as well.
Who knows what assumptions were assumed for other sports. The amount shouldn't be material but could run in the 6 figure range if optimistic or aggressive budgeting was used. In total, it's not unrealistic to assume that there's a revenue shortfall of $2.5M+.
But then again, I'm used to budgeting with uncertainty and contingencies while managing to a bottom line of profitability and knowing what levers that I can pull on on the expense side to cut in order to cover misses. Athletic Departments are likely not used to doing that. Their expenses are far more fixed (think people, facilities, etc.) than variable. As such, trying to figure out how and where to cut expenses to cover not only becomes difficult, but in the grand scheme of things, trying to put a band aid on a cut requiring stitches. Instead, what ends up happening is you start removing staff that are considered non essential, finding ways to limit travel and related expenses for both teams and staff, try to avoid repetitive payments (i.e. buying out existing contracts), and when in a position to make replacement hires err on the side of an upside hire with lower experience and a lower price tag than a known hire with significant experience and a high price tag.
The only other strong options is to head to your most significant donors and/or upper campus for assistance in covering the shortfalls. That's a dangerous proposition because if you head to the donors you run the risk of pissing them off and alienating them from the program. If you head to upper campus, you basically are admitting that you aren't able to hit your commitments which for executives is a very dangerous line to walk. It'd be one thing if the shortfalls are being caused by events outside of the control of the AD. But that's not really the case here. For football, the shortfall is caused by many factors including 15 years of mediocrity (at times that's being generous), a shitty OOC schedule, a known rebuilding year without steak or sizzle, and what is routinely cited as a terrible in-game product and experience coupled with a widely criticized marketing department. And on the basketball side, Romar has been underperforming for years and as the program has floundered under his watch, the momentum and support for the program has waned yearly. In many respects, the problems in the AD are entirely self induced, unsurprising, and have been building over the years.
Going back to Pepsi's comments about liking Jen Cohen, it's very possible that Cohen is self aware enough to know the problems, has done the best that she could do in her essentially supporting position of Pool Boy (who ultimately as AD is responsible for the vision, oversight, and execution of the AD plan), and is willing to put forth a plan to amend and turn around the problems in the Athletic Department. My guess though is that she doesn't have enough of the answers to be anything more than a stop gap in the position given her overall lack of experience as an experienced lead AD. This isn't a position or situation where the position should be trusted to an executive that is either inexperienced or has not been faced with managing a major D1 program like UW. It's not a position where IMO you go to a person without Power 5 experience. It's why the name of Greg Bryne is intriguing because you could argue not only that Washington is a stronger program, but with his Northwest roots for both himself and his wife, it's a geographical fit as well. His track record of success at both Mississippi State and Arizona is well documented and not only does he have a keen marketing sense, but he also has a very strong demonstrated ability to think outside of the box to generate results (i.e. moving the baseball program from on campus to Hi Corbett Field that saw a strong increase in attendance).
In my opinion, this is probably one of the most important hires that the UW will make from an athletic standpoint over the next decade. Really important in my mind for those that demand excellence from the UW to continue to be vocal about the problems that we're seeing and make them visible. -
Oliver Luck! Guy put beer back in WVU football games!
-
Thanks for answering my question. I think you're right about this being an essential hire for UW, and if this Greg Bryne guy's the real deal, I hope we canTequilla said:Warning: TL, DR thoughts coming
....
This isn't a position or situation where the position should be trusted to an executive that is either inexperienced or has not been faced with managing a major D1 program like UW. It's not a position where IMO you go to a person without Power 5 experience. It's why the name of Greg Bryne is intriguing because you could argue not only that Washington is a stronger program, but with his Northwest roots for both himself and his wife, it's a geographical fit as well. His track record of success at both Mississippi State and Arizona is well documented and not only does he have a keen marketing sense, but he also has a very strong demonstrated ability to think outside of the box to generate results (i.e. moving the baseball program from on campus to Hi Corbett Field that saw a strong increase in attendance).
In my opinion, this is probably one of the most important hires that the UW will make from an athletic standpoint over the next decade. Really important in my mind for those that demand excellence from the UW to continue to be vocal about the problems that we're seeing and make them visible.coax him awayget him to sell his couch. -
Bob Ernst!
With Woodward gone, bring the crusty old winner back as the A.D. -
FREE PUB!!PostGameOrangeSlices said:C. Fetters, Esquire
-
I read it.Tequilla said:
Warning: TL, DR thoughts comingDoog_de_Jour said:
Wow. After reading that I'm worried Woodward leaving is going to be a jumping from the frying pan into the fire type situation.Tequilla said:Hiring Cohen in my mind basically confirms the budget issues that have been rumored in the Athletic Department and really aren't all that shocking given the poor attendance for football this year and basketball the last few years. Since the UW AD has never been supported by having the kind of whale donators that you see so often in the SEC, Big 12, etc., when we're light in Joe Alumni's support, it creates problems. It's a strong indicator in my mind why Romar's got so much job security (when he shouldn't) because we don't have the means in place to cover his buyout.
The joke of the matter in all of this though is that what is needed is an experienced AD that really knows how to mobilize a base and turn around the budget deficit. It takes money to make money.
The other big issue that Pepsi brings up that is 100% true is that the AD needs a strong overhaul, particularly with regard to the marketing of the program as well as in-game presentation. From the surveys that have been sent out this year, it's clear that the AD realizes there is a problem but the general sense is that there aren't a lot of answers or solutions coming from within (and that's not surprising given that they've had to resort to sending out the surveys and that it ever got to that point). It would IMO be very difficult for Cohen to take over the lead spot in the AD and make all the moves necessary given the familiarity and closeness with the program. She may make some changes but it will likely only be a fraction of what is needed and moreover there's always the question of what kind of buy in that she would get from the department as a whole from those that either wanted other people or even the job themselves.
The reality is that the problems in the UW AD start with the current administration as a whole but also extends to the alumni/donor base as well. It's really the #1 priority for the sports programs at this point.
If money is an issue, is there a viable economical alternative to hiring someone internal? I know we're afraid of UW being anyone's training wheels, but wouldn't it be better to get some hungry, ambitious individual from a smaller school that would at least bring in some fresh ideas?
The problems as I see it ... and for the record, I don't have any unique insight other than just paying attention to things around me and being a #TCUMBASuperiorityGuy
If you go to Rempe's bio on the UW Athletic Page, you see that the UW AD Budget is about $75M per year. To fuck up a Budget in that range is really difficult to do IMO unless you are having some significant revenue shortfalls. Anybody that has any clue would be building in at least some kind of buffer into the Budget to cover contingencies. If I was running through the process of creating a UW Budget, I'd expect that I'd probably put it in the neighborhood of $2-$5M to cover anything from revenue shortfalls to contingent buyouts, projected unscheduled retention raises, etc.
Now, if you look for example at UW football for this year, average attendance this year was 60,691 with the Apple Cup being the only game where attendance was over 62,000 at just over 70,000. Let's assume that the Athletic Department budgeted conservatively (in their mind) and set the ticket expectation at 65,000 for average attendance at an average ticket price of $70 per ticket. Over the course of a 7 game schedule, the total revenue shortfall compared to budget would be over $2M.
There was a UW Dawg Pound article towards the end of last basketball season that placed 2014-2015 attendance at around 6,300-6,400 per game versus a capacity of around 10,000. Again, let's assume for simplicity that UW budgeted around 7,000 per game on average so that the gap was about 500-700 tickets on average per game. In 2015-2016 season, UW plays 17 home games. Let's say that the average ticket price per game is $35. You're looking there at a budget shortfall of somewhere around $300-$500k depending on assumptions. I'd probably say that the estimate should probably be on the higher end as I would expect that some of the shortfall is coming on Tyee seating that is also reducing donor funding ... also probably true for football as well.
Who knows what assumptions were assumed for other sports. The amount shouldn't be material but could run in the 6 figure range if optimistic or aggressive budgeting was used. In total, it's not unrealistic to assume that there's a revenue shortfall of $2.5M+.
But then again, I'm used to budgeting with uncertainty and contingencies while managing to a bottom line of profitability and knowing what levers that I can pull on on the expense side to cut in order to cover misses. Athletic Departments are likely not used to doing that. Their expenses are far more fixed (think people, facilities, etc.) than variable. As such, trying to figure out how and where to cut expenses to cover not only becomes difficult, but in the grand scheme of things, trying to put a band aid on a cut requiring stitches. Instead, what ends up happening is you start removing staff that are considered non essential, finding ways to limit travel and related expenses for both teams and staff, try to avoid repetitive payments (i.e. buying out existing contracts), and when in a position to make replacement hires err on the side of an upside hire with lower experience and a lower price tag than a known hire with significant experience and a high price tag.
The only other strong options is to head to your most significant donors and/or upper campus for assistance in covering the shortfalls. That's a dangerous proposition because if you head to the donors you run the risk of pissing them off and alienating them from the program. If you head to upper campus, you basically are admitting that you aren't able to hit your commitments which for executives is a very dangerous line to walk. It'd be one thing if the shortfalls are being caused by events outside of the control of the AD. But that's not really the case here. For football, the shortfall is caused by many factors including 15 years of mediocrity (at times that's being generous), a shitty OOC schedule, a known rebuilding year without steak or sizzle, and what is routinely cited as a terrible in-game product and experience coupled with a widely criticized marketing department. And on the basketball side, Romar has been underperforming for years and as the program has floundered under his watch, the momentum and support for the program has waned yearly. In many respects, the problems in the AD are entirely self induced, unsurprising, and have been building over the years.
Going back to Pepsi's comments about liking Jen Cohen, it's very possible that Cohen is self aware enough to know the problems, has done the best that she could do in her essentially supporting position of Pool Boy (who ultimately as AD is responsible for the vision, oversight, and execution of the AD plan), and is willing to put forth a plan to amend and turn around the problems in the Athletic Department. My guess though is that she doesn't have enough of the answers to be anything more than a stop gap in the position given her overall lack of experience as an experienced lead AD. This isn't a position or situation where the position should be trusted to an executive that is either inexperienced or has not been faced with managing a major D1 program like UW. It's not a position where IMO you go to a person without Power 5 experience. It's why the name of Greg Bryne is intriguing because you could argue not only that Washington is a stronger program, but with his Northwest roots for both himself and his wife, it's a geographical fit as well. His track record of success at both Mississippi State and Arizona is well documented and not only does he have a keen marketing sense, but he also has a very strong demonstrated ability to think outside of the box to generate results (i.e. moving the baseball program from on campus to Hi Corbett Field that saw a strong increase in attendance).
In my opinion, this is probably one of the most important hires that the UW will make from an athletic standpoint over the next decade. Really important in my mind for those that demand excellence from the UW to continue to be vocal about the problems that we're seeing and make them visible. -
Chelsea Clinton's Father?AtomicDawg said:I expect a downgrade. We are going to hire some transgender bulldyke.
-
Contingency fund? Already have one. Full faith and credit of the University of Washington and by extension, Washington State taxpayer.
-
Tequila... Bullet points motherfucker.
-
That hasn't worked too well in the past. Budget shortfalls have resulted in dropped programs and layoffs in the past.sarktastic said:Contingency fund? Already have one. Full faith and credit of the University of Washington and by extension, Washington State taxpayer.
-
Just ask WSU.sarktastic said:Contingency fund? Already have one. Full faith and credit of the University of Washington and by extension, Washington State taxpayer.
I'm concerned why Byrne would go from Miss St to Arizona though. -
What @Tequilla is talking about is that there was an accounting error in the Athletic Department that resulted in a budget shortfall as revenue did not meet their expectations. Apparently it wasn't a small shortfall either.
From what I've gathered it shouldn't be a long term issue, but someone fucked up and it hurt them this year and they had to cut back in some areas.
Yes, this is what I am hearing, don't twist. -
Why? Mississippi State is broke as fuck. Probably the smallest budget in the SEC. Not going to look it up but definitely bottom three.TommySQC said:
Just ask WSU.sarktastic said:Contingency fund? Already have one. Full faith and credit of the University of Washington and by extension, Washington State taxpayer.
I'm concerned why Byrne would go from Miss St to Arizona though.
Arizona is a much bigger job. -
Stadium default?CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:What @Tequilla is talking about is that there was an accounting error in the Athletic Department that resulted in a budget shortfall as revenue did not meet their expectations. Apparently it wasn't a small shortfall either.
From what I've gathered it shouldn't be a long term issue, but someone fucked up and it hurt them this year and they had to cut back in some areas.
Yes, this is what I am hearing, don't twist. -
I would expect the $$$ for this are one of the first things allocated and accounted for each yearRaceBannon said:
Stadium default?CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:What @Tequilla is talking about is that there was an accounting error in the Athletic Department that resulted in a budget shortfall as revenue did not meet their expectations. Apparently it wasn't a small shortfall either.
From what I've gathered it shouldn't be a long term issue, but someone fucked up and it hurt them this year and they had to cut back in some areas.
Yes, this is what I am hearing, don't twist. -
I really haven't followed him that closely, but he does seem to get it. I don't think he hired Miller, but he did hire RichRod. Like I've said, RR ok for a basketball school. He's clearly capable of winning the South and possibly making a Rose Bowl which would be a first.FremontTroll said:
Byrne would be an A+ hire.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
Arizonadoogville said:
Can you name 5 athletic directors without looking them up? Not including the ones we know of because they are awful (praise be pat Haden).CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:This could be amazing if true, but I am very nervous about who we hire.
As Chest said, the guy I would target is Greg Byrne. If we could go from Woodward to Byrne it would be terrific.
This is the single biggest hire we(?) are going to make since we hired Tawd.... Fuck.....
Like, why Greg Byrne? ASU hasn't exactly been a juggernaut.
He's a decent a.d. Now four people will probably jump in and give two reasons why he's awful and needs to die.
-Nailed his football hires at UA and Mississippi State. (say what you want about Rich Rod that was a home run for UA.)
-Handled Miller when he flirted with other jobs. (Didn't kowtow but got the extension done.)
-Conducted coaching searches with professionalism and focus (no leaks and no dithering. UA fans call him the ninja.)
-Drastically increased the assistant coach salary pool for Rich Rod. (Casteel's salary was top 10 or 15 in the nation for a DC.)
-Likely put pressure on RichRod to make changes on defense. (I don't think Rich Rod would fire his buddy of his own volition.)
-Pushed strongly for facilities upgrades for football.
-Proficient with both social media and traditional media.
-Young and experience in SEC country (gets it. Football first.)
-From the NW so Seattle might be appealing. Born in Pocatello and worked at Oregon for awhile.
He does a lot of radio interviews with the local guys and he seems smart, savvy, and on top of things. He's also upgraded football facilities and as far as I know the Olympic sports are doing fine. -
Does anyone know if Pac 12 Network revenue is supppsed to increase much? I'm not near a computer right now and f looking it up on a phone. That would help.
We're still way behind the Big 12 and SEC in that area. -
I can't imagine the PAC Network will see an uptick as long as they have no deal w DirecTV
-
Huh?PurpleThrobber said:
I don't believe that's what I said. I said he wouldn't last. 6.9 seconds if you are literal motherfucker, so let me know when the clock starts ticking.digits said:
Weren't you the one saying those Tejas BIG BOYS would never hire Woodward?PurpleThrobber said:6.9 seconds start now.
The Aggie money guys don't fuck around. Woody better have a golden parachute.
They will fuck him raw. And smile about it.
Texas Forevah!
PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber
Posts: 2,665
January 5
Y'all are insane if you think a big time Texas school is going to hire Woody. Those good ol' boys are serious as a heart attack about winning. There are dozens of Buddy Gerety's at aTm and UT.
They write big checks and want someone to wants to win more than breathing.
Woody would get spit out in 6.9 seconds.
Flag Quote · Vote Down Vote Up WTF Awesome · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter" -
At least someone reads my plagiarism shit fucko.digits said:
Huh?PurpleThrobber said:
I don't believe that's what I said. I said he wouldn't last. 6.9 seconds if you are literal motherfucker, so let me know when the clock starts ticking.digits said:
Weren't you the one saying those Tejas BIG BOYS would never hire Woodward?PurpleThrobber said:6.9 seconds start now.
The Aggie money guys don't fuck around. Woody better have a golden parachute.
They will fuck him raw. And smile about it.
Texas Forevah!
PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber
Posts: 2,665
January 5
Y'all are insane if you think a big time Texas school is going to hire Woody. Those good ol' boys are serious as a heart attack about winning. There are dozens of Buddy Gerety's at aTm and UT.
They write big checks and want someone to wants to win more than breathing.
Woody would get spit out in 6.9 seconds.
Flag Quote · Vote Down Vote Up WTF Awesome · Share on Facebook Share on Twitter"
Good work. -
You guys aren't seeing the forest through the trees.
Mike and Colleen Bellotti are tanned, lubed, rested and ready!!!! -
I was about to give this an awesome vote but then I saw the 4 Bama avatars and didn't want to ruin the perfection of your post. That and I'm too fat and lazy to change my own avatar.PurpleJ said:Tequila... Bullet points motherfucker.
-
Pics?salemcoog said:You guys aren't seeing the forest through the trees.
Mike and Colleen Bellotti are tanned, lubed, rested and ready!!!! -
The rare 4-peat Bama Upawesome hammer! If I knew how to SS it I would!PurpleJ said:Tequila... Bullet points motherfucker.
-
If Woodward were being fired then I might hold out hope of a good hire.
Since the current UW Admin liked what Woodward was doing, we will get more of the same (or worse).
Expect race/gender/sexuality to be the first consideration. Work ability will be secondary. A political correct hire will give them lots of Atta Boy's from the other left coast universities which is what they covet most.
The best we can hope for is that through some twist of fate the politically correct hire actually turns out to have some ability and desire to win.
-
Both schools have chosen this path. All that's left to do is to let it play out.Southerndawg said:
That hasn't worked too well in the past. Budget shortfalls have resulted in dropped programs and layoffs in the past.sarktastic said:Contingency fund? Already have one. Full faith and credit of the University of Washington and by extension, Washington State taxpayer.
-
New administration just started - the release thanking Woodward for his service to UW was vanilla termination thank you for your service letter 101
-
Tequilla said:
I can't imagine the PAC Network will see an uptick as long as they have no deal w DirecTV
Yeah ok the biggest job at one of the biggest universities in the country won't be based on (perceived) talent.Blayen said:If Woodward were being fired then I might hold out hope of a good hire.
Since the current UW Admin liked what Woodward was doing, we will get more of the same (or worse).
Expect race/gender/sexuality to be the first consideration. Work ability will be secondary. A political correct hire will give them lots of Atta Boy's from the other left coast universities which is what they covet most.
The best we can hope for is that through some twist of fate the politically correct hire actually turns out to have some ability and desire to win.
Could you be any more old, rich, and white? -
FremontTroll said:Tequilla said:
I can't imagine the PAC Network will see an uptick as long as they have no deal w DirecTV
Yeah ok the biggest job at one of the biggest universities in the country won't be based on (perceived) talent.Blayen said:If Woodward were being fired then I might hold out hope of a good hire.
Since the current UW Admin liked what Woodward was doing, we will get more of the same (or worse).
Expect race/gender/sexuality to be the first consideration. Work ability will be secondary. A political correct hire will give them lots of Atta Boy's from the other left coast universities which is what they covet most.
The best we can hope for is that through some twist of fate the politically correct hire actually turns out to have some ability and desire to win.
Could you be any more old, rich, and white?
Seriously? I guess it depends on what you mean when you say talent.
The "search" for a new University President based on "talent" yielded this:
It's 2016. Performance is secondary to political correctness particularly within the public education system.
