Romar's ace in the (2) hole
The more I think about this, the more I think it is complete bullshit.
If you throw the bank at someone and bring in a good coach (which is Woody's job), their first challenge will be to keep these guys in the boat. I can't imagine that any of these recruits are super excited to be playing for Romar at this point. It would also be a huge carrot for a big-time coach. In most cases, you'd be walking into a complete disaster following the firing of a long-term coach, but in this case, you're walking into a top-10 recruiting class if you can keep them at UW. 3 of the guys being local helps you in this regard. You also possibly have a few guys in NWG, AA, or JJ who could be talked into sticking around.
If you keep Romar, he fails to make the tournament again (which is extremely likely), and he gets fired, the whole team will leave and the incoming coach will be walking into an absolute shitpile. NWG and Murray will jump to the pros, the other players will transfer after a bad experience at UW, and whoever has the balls/bad career sense to take the job will be building from nothing.
Comments
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Mail. The AD. Now.
Excellent point. -
Why let them out of their LOI's?bananasnblondes said:For all except the truly dumb (Romar should get to retire from UW on his own terms because he is a great man and good representative of the university), the overwhelming reason that Romar should be kept for another year is because of the great recruiting class he's bringing in. The argument is that you at least have to get the recruiting class in the door and if you fire Romar you have to let them out of their LOIs.
The more I think about this, the more I think it is complete bullshit.
If you throw the bank at someone and bring in a good coach (which is Woody's job), their first challenge will be to keep these guys in the boat. I can't imagine that any of these recruits are super excited to be playing for Romar at this point. It would also be a huge carrot for a big-time coach. In most cases, you'd be walking into a complete disaster following the firing of a long-term coach, but in this case, you're walking into a top-10 recruiting class if you can keep them at UW. 3 of the guys being local helps you in this regard. You also possibly have a few guys in NWG, AA, or JJ who could be talked into sticking around.
If you keep Romar, he fails to make the tournament again (which is extremely likely), and he gets fired, the whole team will leave and the incoming coach will be walking into an absolute shitpile. NWG and Murray will jump to the pros, the other players will transfer after a bad experience at UW, and whoever has the balls/bad career sense to take the job will be building from nothing.
When the UW fired June, they didn't let Katelon Redmon out of her LOI and stuck her with Tia.
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The recruiting class is likely what will save Romar. That said, if Romar gets fired, and he won't, the recruits will likely bolt. They committed to Romar and will go where they have a relationship with the coaches i.e. their 2nd and 3rd choices.
A smart AD would look at the long term benefits and fire Romar anyways. An even smarter AD would have fired Romar after last year, which would have been completely fair and a much better time to do so. -
If they hire the right coach, you won't lose the whole class. The recruits still have to meet with the new coach,ask out of their LOIs, and give an actual reason they aren't compatible with the new coach. Again, I'm not sure any of these guys would have chosen to play for Romar if they saw this season's piss poor coaching job.RoadDawg55 said:The recruiting class is likely what will save Romar. That said, if Romar gets fired, and he won't, the recruits will likely bolt. They committed to Romar and will go where they have a relationship with the coaches i.e. their 2nd and 3rd choices.
A smart AD would look at the long term benefits and fire Romar anyways. An even smarter AD would have fired Romar after last year, which would have been completely fair and a much better time to do so. -
Couldn't disagree more on the recruiting class bolts. I think the majority stay in the boat, especially the most important kids. The locals are staying b/c it's UW, and they have Broy, Nate, Conroy, etc pushing for kids to stay local and make UW good. Sorry, but romar leaving doesn't automatically create a mass exodus of local kids to other schools. To be fair, i'd be just fine if a new coach came in and tried to keep Thyb, Murray, Crisp and Criss. The other two can go away for all I care. Sure, maybe one will be alright, but at this point should anyone trust romar's ability to spot talent from JC ranks? Dime is a big body which we could obviously use, but Devenir is another disaster waiting to happen. If half leave, what does it matter anyhow? This roster is complete shit show and a new coach will have to build the team to the player he wants. Not romar's vision of shit roster mgt and talent eval.
If we were handicapping the theory that romar leaves players leave, i'll put the % i think that player leaves:
Murray - 5%
Crisp - 0%
Thyb - 5%
Criss - 40%
Dime - 50%
Devenir - 50%(this scholy may get pulled from a new coach. IE, one who doesn't believe the BS that you must have a 7' ogre on your team to compete)
Let's walk down another road that just recently happened. CP. He came in and closed the door on two local recruits who likely wouldn't have come to UW. Why is the basketball program any different? The new coach will have to sell themselves to top level local guys every year. The notion that we'll have some mass exodus is absolutely comical. Especially considering the dreck fest we've had the last few years. We need a mass exodus. Oregon, oregon st and Utah are very recent examples where a coach came in and had very few scholy players b/c the old coach sucked. They somehow have put together good squads in short time periods. We've had a full roster and have the worst team in the pac12. -
I just can't imagine recruits seeing a coaching upgrade (assuming the next coach in this scenario is an upgrade) and thinking to themselves "wow, this is a bad situation now, I'm out of here". I think players most of the time choose a program for one of two reasons - they want to win and/or they want exposure to help them get drafted. Romar doesn't exactly help in either case while the next coach might. That said, why the hell did they commit to Romar in the first place?RoadDawg55 said:The recruiting class is likely what will save Romar. That said, if Romar gets fired, and he won't, the recruits will likely bolt. They committed to Romar and will go where they have a relationship with the coaches i.e. their 2nd and 3rd choices.
A smart AD would look at the long term benefits and fire Romar anyways. An even smarter AD would have fired Romar after last year, which would have been completely fair and a much better time to do so. -
If you can show me some precedent of recruits staying, I would buy it. From what I have followed, when a coach is fired or bolts, the recruits leave most of the time. Maybe the local guys could be convinced to stay, but it's dicey. The guys listed that encourage them to choose UW all like Romar and would probably be disappointed about UW firing him. Thinking they will stay is wishful thinking.
It's pretty hard to develop a relationship and trust a coaching staff in a matter of a couple weeks. If UW hired a coach that already knew the kids and had some kind of relationship, that would obviously help the chances of them staying.
The recruiting class or any individual recruits should not be a reason for keeping Romar. I don't care if Murray, Chriss, and the other bolt if Romar is fired. I would still look at it as a good thing. -
If you think keeping a coach to save a recruiting class is worth it, you deserve another #Owen12. Simple fact.
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2008/washington-65 -
The difference is these recruits have signed LOI's, it is very difficult for them to bolt, especially because I am sure most of them have local school/city pride. I don't think there are many players that get out of their LOI's when college coaches leave.
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It's also late in the season. If Romar is fired in April, that only leaves a few months for guys that want to leave to find a school that still has a spot for them. Chances are, most big programs moved on and signed someone else. Which means their 2nd and 3rd choices probably aren't an option anymore.CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:The difference is these recruits have signed LOI's, it is very difficult for them to bolt, especially because I am sure most of them have local school/city pride. I don't think there are many players that get out of their LOI's when college coaches leave.
Murray is the only one good enough that a coach would boot a kid to make room for. Not that the others are bad, they're just not worth kicking a kid that you gave a scholarship to off the team for another player at the last minute. Most coaches wouldn't do that anyway. -
Haven't all of these guys signed LOIs? I don't follow basketball recruiting that closely ... so I don't know.
It'd be one thing if the next coaching hire is somebody that the kids look at and say "who?" and then decide that they'd rather ask out of their LOI.
If it's somebody that is a proven winner (i.e. Marshall), barring a complete personality clash, I would expect that most of these players would look at the opportunity to play for a proven winning coach and say that they are in a good place.
And if you lose a class, you lose a class. Far more important to have a healthy program long-term even if that means a lean year or two because look at this year ... total dreckfest.
My overarching philosophy is that when you know somebody isn't the answer in a position like this, you're better off finding the next option because you'll be that much closer to finding the actual solution. -
This isn't true. Ahmed Rorie was released from his LOI from Cal once Montgomery retired. He ended up at Oregon. UW, WSU, and ASU also went after him. He's not an elite recruit. A lot of schools have room.ThomasFremont said:
It's also late in the season. If Romar is fired in April, that only leaves a few months for guys that want to leave to find a school that still has a spot for them. Chances are, most big programs moved on and signed someone else. Which means their 2nd and 3rd choices probably aren't an option anymore.CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:The difference is these recruits have signed LOI's, it is very difficult for them to bolt, especially because I am sure most of them have local school/city pride. I don't think there are many players that get out of their LOI's when college coaches leave.
Murray is the only one good enough that a coach would boot a kid to make room for. Not that the others are bad, they're just not worth kicking a kid that you gave a scholarship to off the team for another player at the last minute. Most coaches wouldn't do that anyway.
You actually think coaches won't want Chriss or Dime if they were released from their LOI? Maybe Crisp and the big guy from Canada would have trouble finding suitors, but the others would not. -
The point is that there is a good chance that their 2nd and 3rd choices don't have a spot anymore. Notice how none of the schools you listed are named Arizona or UCLA or anyone else good?RoadDawg55 said:
This isn't true. Ahmed Rorie was released from his LOI from Cal once Montgomery retired. He ended up at Oregon. UW, WSU, and ASU also went after him. He's not an elite recruit. A lot of schools have room.ThomasFremont said:
It's also late in the season. If Romar is fired in April, that only leaves a few months for guys that want to leave to find a school that still has a spot for them. Chances are, most big programs moved on and signed someone else. Which means their 2nd and 3rd choices probably aren't an option anymore.CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:The difference is these recruits have signed LOI's, it is very difficult for them to bolt, especially because I am sure most of them have local school/city pride. I don't think there are many players that get out of their LOI's when college coaches leave.
Murray is the only one good enough that a coach would boot a kid to make room for. Not that the others are bad, they're just not worth kicking a kid that you gave a scholarship to off the team for another player at the last minute. Most coaches wouldn't do that anyway.
You actually think coaches won't want Chriss or Dime if they were released from their LOI? Maybe Crisp and the big guy from Canada would have trouble finding suitors, but the others would not. -
And again, if you keep Romar next year and then fire him, the program will be leveled to the ground. At that point, you're trying to find someone to coach a team that will be one of the worst in the country and you end up having to hire a second-rate guy because nobody else wants to commit career suicideTequilla said:Haven't all of these guys signed LOIs? I don't follow basketball recruiting that closely ... so I don't know.
It'd be one thing if the next coaching hire is somebody that the kids look at and say "who?" and then decide that they'd rather ask out of their LOI.
If it's somebody that is a proven winner (i.e. Marshall), barring a complete personality clash, I would expect that most of these players would look at the opportunity to play for a proven winning coach and say that they are in a good place.
And if you lose a class, you lose a class. Far more important to have a healthy program long-term even if that means a lean year or two because look at this year ... total dreckfest.
My overarching philosophy is that when you know somebody isn't the answer in a position like this, you're better off finding the next option because you'll be that much closer to finding the actual solution. -
Yes, and the recruiting class nonsense is still meaningless, because you'll probably get a few transfers anyway.bananasnblondes said:
And again, if you keep Romar next year and then fire him, the program will be leveled to the ground. At that point, you're trying to find someone to coach a team that will be one of the worst in the country and you end up having to hire a second-rate guy because nobody else wants to commit career suicideTequilla said:Haven't all of these guys signed LOIs? I don't follow basketball recruiting that closely ... so I don't know.
It'd be one thing if the next coaching hire is somebody that the kids look at and say "who?" and then decide that they'd rather ask out of their LOI.
If it's somebody that is a proven winner (i.e. Marshall), barring a complete personality clash, I would expect that most of these players would look at the opportunity to play for a proven winning coach and say that they are in a good place.
And if you lose a class, you lose a class. Far more important to have a healthy program long-term even if that means a lean year or two because look at this year ... total dreckfest.
My overarching philosophy is that when you know somebody isn't the answer in a position like this, you're better off finding the next option because you'll be that much closer to finding the actual solution.
After firing a coach, the new coach has to start over and rebuild. That's just how it works. It's fine, it really doesn't take long, see any coach that's worth a shit. Miller, Monty, Altman, kryspykreme at Utah...
Yeah, you lose some players/recruits in the switch. Stop being a pussy about it. -
Brad Jackson to replace Romar???RoadDawg55 said:
It's pretty hard to develop a relationship and trust a coaching staff in a matter of a couple weeks. If UW hired a coach that already knew the kids and had some kind of relationship, that would obviously help the chances of them staying
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Lots of schools have spots available because of transfers and early entrants in the draft. They sometimes even purposely keep spots available for Spring signing and transfers.ThomasFremont said:
The point is that there is a good chance that their 2nd and 3rd choices don't have a spot anymore. Notice how none of the schools you listed are named Arizona or UCLA or anyone else good?RoadDawg55 said:
This isn't true. Ahmed Rorie was released from his LOI from Cal once Montgomery retired. He ended up at Oregon. UW, WSU, and ASU also went after him. He's not an elite recruit. A lot of schools have room.ThomasFremont said:
It's also late in the season. If Romar is fired in April, that only leaves a few months for guys that want to leave to find a school that still has a spot for them. Chances are, most big programs moved on and signed someone else. Which means their 2nd and 3rd choices probably aren't an option anymore.CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:The difference is these recruits have signed LOI's, it is very difficult for them to bolt, especially because I am sure most of them have local school/city pride. I don't think there are many players that get out of their LOI's when college coaches leave.
Murray is the only one good enough that a coach would boot a kid to make room for. Not that the others are bad, they're just not worth kicking a kid that you gave a scholarship to off the team for another player at the last minute. Most coaches wouldn't do that anyway.
You actually think coaches won't want Chriss or Dime if they were released from their LOI? Maybe Crisp and the big guy from Canada would have trouble finding suitors, but the others would not. -
I agree there will be spots if the guys want to leave, but overall the locals will stay unless we hire a complete boob. I don't think people understand how big the pull is from local UW/NBA legends to stay local. Romar is a good recruiter in some areas, but those who don't think that broy, nate, conroy, tre', brock, spencer among the many others don't do a huge service to these kids recruitment are kidding themselves. They regularly play in pickup and and city leagues and spout UW, UW, UW.
The idea that UW needs romar to forever succeed is a ridiculous notion. I wish the guy would have kept his style, or gone back to it after a year or two of futile efforts. But he seems bound and determined to repeat the same stupid mistakes year after year now. -
The B-Roy, Will, Nate angle is talked about a lot, but what has it actually done? It could change now that B Roy is involved with AAU ball, but up to this point, it's done nothing. Before this year, Romar has whiffed on every good in state recruit in state since Wroten. The legitimate recruits such as Shaquan Aaron and Zach Lavine went elsewhere.FreeChavez said:I agree there will be spots if the guys want to leave, but overall the locals will stay unless we hire a complete boob. I don't think people understand how big the pull is from local UW/NBA legends to stay local. Romar is a good recruiter in some areas, but those who don't think that broy, nate, conroy, tre', brock, spencer among the many others don't do a huge service to these kids recruitment are kidding themselves. They regularly play in pickup and and city leagues and spout UW, UW, UW.
The idea that UW needs romar to forever succeed is a ridiculous notion. I wish the guy would have kept his style, or gone back to it after a year or two of futile efforts. But he seems bound and determined to repeat the same stupid mistakes year after year now.
Those guys are legends and should always be welcomed, but trying to appease them is FS. Just get a good basketball coach and everything will work itself out. Everything else such as the recruiting class, Romar being a great guy, the NBA guys love Romar... It's white noise. -
Regardless of the coach next year, isn't the identity of the team going to be the frosh takeover?
You would think they would just pick up the phone and confirm with each other "we got this, it's us AA, NWG (might foolishly bolt still) and? ? JJ?
These kids still want to play asap and bolt to the pros if they prove their worth.
There isn't a better school that offers that opportunity on the west coast.
Minus the elk grove kid, they are all local. I say they stay regardless. -
I agree that their influence is not all powerful, but you can't dismiss it either. There also haven't been many good local players since Wroten to recruit.RoadDawg55 said:
The B-Roy, Will, Nate angle is talked about a lot, but what has it actually done? It could change now that B Roy is involved with AAU ball, but up to this point, it's done nothing. Before this year, Romar has whiffed on every good in state recruit in state since Wroten. The legitimate recruits such as Shaquan Aaron and Zach Lavine went elsewhere.FreeChavez said:I agree there will be spots if the guys want to leave, but overall the locals will stay unless we hire a complete boob. I don't think people understand how big the pull is from local UW/NBA legends to stay local. Romar is a good recruiter in some areas, but those who don't think that broy, nate, conroy, tre', brock, spencer among the many others don't do a huge service to these kids recruitment are kidding themselves. They regularly play in pickup and and city leagues and spout UW, UW, UW.
The idea that UW needs romar to forever succeed is a ridiculous notion. I wish the guy would have kept his style, or gone back to it after a year or two of futile efforts. But he seems bound and determined to repeat the same stupid mistakes year after year now.
Those guys are legends and should always be welcomed, but trying to appease them is FS. Just get a good basketball coach and everything will work itself out. Everything else such as the recruiting class, Romar being a great guy, the NBA guys love Romar... It's white noise.
Missing on talent like Zach LaVine sucks. I thought we had a chance, but he stuck with UCLA even after they fired Howland and hired Alford (lulz).
Shaqquan Aaron is from California, not Seattle. He transferred to Beach as a sophomore. Not exactly a local guy that grew up watching UW and the local alumni. Still sucks not to get him. He could start right now.
Romar missed on them, no doubt. But those were lean years in WA HS hoops. Last year after Aaron, the next best players were Crisp and Djuan Piper from Beach. Crisp is in prep school getting his grades right. Piper failed to qualify academically and went to JC instead. Next up was Dorsey, who is very one dimensional. The year before that he missed on LaVine. But after LaVine the only good player from the area was DJ Fenner. He went to Nevada. And he's not exactly lighting it up. Like I said, lean. -
Jackson is there to bump up his state pension number. No more, no less.DugtheDoog said:
Brad Jackson to replace Romar???RoadDawg55 said:
It's pretty hard to develop a relationship and trust a coaching staff in a matter of a couple weeks. If UW hired a coach that already knew the kids and had some kind of relationship, that would obviously help the chances of them staying
