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HH Podcast - Miles vs. Williams
Tequilla
Member Posts: 19,815
Haven't finished the pod, but there was a lengthy discussion regarding Miles, his quality (or lack thereof), and Williams. Lots of "idiots" being thrown around out there ... but I think that there were a few things that were not noted that definitely should be discussed/considered when looking into this situation:
1) As Race has noted, Miles isn't the guy. The QB position is the most important position on the field. The question we need to ask is whether or not we can see a path with Miles to being a QB capable of competing for a conference championship. I'm not necessarily talking about this season. I'm talking about at any point over the next 2 years. Is there a path for him to be able to improve enough to be that QB? If so, then I think you stick by him, continue to build up his confidence, put him in positions to be successful, and continue working forward to him being the man over the next two years. If not, then I think you have to strongly consider what your options will be outside of him.
2) We've beaten the dead horse that Miles can best be described as a game manager at this point. Arguably his best skill as a QB at this point is avoiding turnovers. However, the downside to that is that Miles doesn't make any kind of play needed out of the position to make winning plays. He's playing the loser's game instead of the winner's game.
3) While I don't think that our running game is particularly good, I think that Miles hurts the running game because of the throws that he appears to be unable to make. Miles shows a continuous inability to not make throws in the intermediate passing game due to a lack of accuracy, at times arm strength, and in particular due to an inability to read, recognize, and throw with anticipation. By the time he realizes that those throws are there, the window closes and he's unable to make that throw. Defensively, it allows teams to focus on the short offense (running and bubble screens) and worry only about John Ross going deep. This lack of a threat to the defense 10-20 yards from the LOS in my opinion is the biggest hurdle for our offense.
4) With respect to Williams, the question that I think it's difficult for any of us to really answer is how close to Miles he is on the depth chart. Looking back to where he was in August and how he compared to Lindy to me is no longer relevant. He's passed Lindy on the depth chart. As a RS Frosh, we would expect him to continue growing as a QB - so passing Lindy shouldn't be viewed as a negative but instead a positive. What follows from that is the question as to what Williams' ceiling is. At this point, I think we're seeing that Miles isn't growing as a QB. Does getting Williams playing time accelerate his development in reaching his ceiling?
5) We know that for this team to win, we need the defense to play at a high level. Does mediocre at best offensive play stemming from a Miles led attack run the risk of demoralizing the defense?
A couple of other questions/thoughts to ponder:
At what point do we start the process of turning over and developing for 2015? There appears to be a need to have more culture changes taking place to get the "Sark" out of the program.
One other huge issue that has been identified on this team is a general lack of player-led leadership. I don't get the sense that Miles has command or leadership of the offense or team. Not saying that Williams does, but I'm also very interested to see how he would handle the opportunity if presented to him.
Lots of things need to improve in this program, but one of the biggest things we need to try to get ironed out heading into 2015 is certainty and leadership coming from the QB position. IMO, we can't be in a position heading into the offseason where the QB position is still tremendously unsettled. We need to know going into the offseason whether or not Miles is the guy or not. If he isn't, we need to get some data points out there to figure out if Williams is. If he proves that he isn't, then that will give Carta-Samuels and/or Browning a greater opportunity to come in and have a stronger voice and take command if they can pull it off. We need a QB that is buying into everything that Pete is preaching and has the command and leadership in place to drive that down to all of the players, particularly during the offseason.
1) As Race has noted, Miles isn't the guy. The QB position is the most important position on the field. The question we need to ask is whether or not we can see a path with Miles to being a QB capable of competing for a conference championship. I'm not necessarily talking about this season. I'm talking about at any point over the next 2 years. Is there a path for him to be able to improve enough to be that QB? If so, then I think you stick by him, continue to build up his confidence, put him in positions to be successful, and continue working forward to him being the man over the next two years. If not, then I think you have to strongly consider what your options will be outside of him.
2) We've beaten the dead horse that Miles can best be described as a game manager at this point. Arguably his best skill as a QB at this point is avoiding turnovers. However, the downside to that is that Miles doesn't make any kind of play needed out of the position to make winning plays. He's playing the loser's game instead of the winner's game.
3) While I don't think that our running game is particularly good, I think that Miles hurts the running game because of the throws that he appears to be unable to make. Miles shows a continuous inability to not make throws in the intermediate passing game due to a lack of accuracy, at times arm strength, and in particular due to an inability to read, recognize, and throw with anticipation. By the time he realizes that those throws are there, the window closes and he's unable to make that throw. Defensively, it allows teams to focus on the short offense (running and bubble screens) and worry only about John Ross going deep. This lack of a threat to the defense 10-20 yards from the LOS in my opinion is the biggest hurdle for our offense.
4) With respect to Williams, the question that I think it's difficult for any of us to really answer is how close to Miles he is on the depth chart. Looking back to where he was in August and how he compared to Lindy to me is no longer relevant. He's passed Lindy on the depth chart. As a RS Frosh, we would expect him to continue growing as a QB - so passing Lindy shouldn't be viewed as a negative but instead a positive. What follows from that is the question as to what Williams' ceiling is. At this point, I think we're seeing that Miles isn't growing as a QB. Does getting Williams playing time accelerate his development in reaching his ceiling?
5) We know that for this team to win, we need the defense to play at a high level. Does mediocre at best offensive play stemming from a Miles led attack run the risk of demoralizing the defense?
A couple of other questions/thoughts to ponder:
At what point do we start the process of turning over and developing for 2015? There appears to be a need to have more culture changes taking place to get the "Sark" out of the program.
One other huge issue that has been identified on this team is a general lack of player-led leadership. I don't get the sense that Miles has command or leadership of the offense or team. Not saying that Williams does, but I'm also very interested to see how he would handle the opportunity if presented to him.
Lots of things need to improve in this program, but one of the biggest things we need to try to get ironed out heading into 2015 is certainty and leadership coming from the QB position. IMO, we can't be in a position heading into the offseason where the QB position is still tremendously unsettled. We need to know going into the offseason whether or not Miles is the guy or not. If he isn't, we need to get some data points out there to figure out if Williams is. If he proves that he isn't, then that will give Carta-Samuels and/or Browning a greater opportunity to come in and have a stronger voice and take command if they can pull it off. We need a QB that is buying into everything that Pete is preaching and has the command and leadership in place to drive that down to all of the players, particularly during the offseason.
Comments
The running game sucks because the running game sucks. It's not because of Miles. Obviously a great passing attack can open up the running game, but plenty of teams are successful being run heavy without getting great QB play. Wisconsin runs great without a QB. Arizona ran it great last year with Denker at QB. LSU ran it great without good QB's too. Before this year, Stanford is another example. Auburn. There are a lot of suspect passing teams that still get it done on the ground. A strong OL and good RB's can run it on anyone. We have neither.
Teams aren't stacking the box to stop the run. Some of you said that against Stanford, but you were talking out of your ass. I went back and watched the game to see if I wasn't seeing something. Oregon and Stanford mostly played two deep safeties forcing us to run the ball and dink and dunk. We can't do either well enough to sustain drives.
Different point, but I think a lot of QB's would struggle. Mickens is our #1 WR. Last year we had a healthy Kasen, ASJ, Kevin Smith, String, and Mickens. Mickens was one of the guys, a supporting player on offense. This year, it's Mickens with some big plays sprinkled in by Ross. There is no Bishop Sankey or Chris Polk at RB. Price played terrible against Oregon three straight seasons with a far superior supporting cast at the skill positions. Price was a better QB, but do people honestly think he would be tearing it up with this supporting cast around him?
Miles needs to be better, but he's been nowhere near as bad as some of you make it out to be. The whole offense sucks, and he's the guy that gets the blame, but it's fucking ridiculous. Why is there this much focus on Miles after this last game? We wouldn't have beat Oregon with Jameis Winston.
Hi KirkJones!
It was very obvious to me sitting in the stadium, looking at our play, and then looking down at the sideline that Petersen was doing everything he could to make sure that he could turn the game over to the defense to win the game. In college football, you don't often see the art of managing the game and ugly victories too often. Happens all the time at the professional level. Hawaii was a game that in all honesty we probably should have lost given how the game was played. But I thought Petersen did a great job of managing the game and finding a way to get out of town with a win. Disagree with that if you want. But that's what I saw.
In fact, as I look at what we're seeing, I'm thinking that Petersen is finding the best way possible to give the team a chance to win by trying to turn the game over to the defense and have the offense play a mistake free game. What I think he's doing at the QB position is buying time to try to find a better option while giving the team a chance to win.
You laugh at people that throw out the 92-12 - even though that's been a popular short-hand moniker to simply say "Petersen probably knows what he's doing." Regardless of what is happening this year, it's fair to say that Petersen knows what he is doing. His track record suggests as much. Petersen's the furthest thing from the problem in this program at this point. If that's fluffing, then guilty as charged. It'd be like any idiot tied to TCU the last two years sitting there and complaining about Gary Patterson. Good coaches make the needed changes and make the needed adjustments. Regardless of how good of a coach you are, it's hard to make a shit sandwich look good. Having a coach like Sark is the shit sandwich.
You keep saying this, but it doesn't help your point. Oregon is better than us for systemic reasons and if you think that makes a good point that's not totally fucking obvious you're incorrect.
No question the offense as a whole needs to be better all the way around.
The RBs are definitely not Polk or Sankey. I think that there's a good chance that someone in the 2015 class will have a good chance to come in and play a lot immediately.
Mickens should never be your #1 WR. There's no question about that. Kasen's clearly hurt and who knows what the discussion was concerning RS'ing. It clearly should have happened. But at the same time, let's also be completely fair and say that there are times that the WRs have gotten open and haven't been able to get the ball. No doubt that they've dropped a few as well. It's far from perfect. And absolutely agree that we need more from the TE position - but isn't it also fair to say that most TE routes are ones that Miles isn't confident throwing?
But of the above, what can you change that will give you the best shot for improving?
Albert Einstein has shit dialed in for this time of situation: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
You can analyze this year until your anus falls off, but what gives the best shot for improving is Petersen going to work and getting some hard working tuff mother fuckers playing smart and physical. It will come. With Petersen there is a great chance to be a top 10 program very soon. With Sark, that chance never existed.
LIFPO.
The first Damone's absolutely right that the signs were there. It's the inner doog in me that takes the optimistic picture that thought that Pete could take a 5-4 conference team to a 7-2 team. That could still happen ... but is unlikely because of reason #2.
For as great of a QB guru that Seven has been proclaimed, his list of busts is massive. I expected to see improvement from Miles year to year. Instead, I think he just is what he is. And if anything, I think he's gone backwards as he has realized his limitations.
He's a pretty easy QB to defend because he doesn't have the arm to beat you in the mid, long, or deep passing game. His accuracy beyond 10 yards isn't good (see the backbreaking pass against Oregon that was intercepted....the receiver was open and had some YAC in front of him so it was probably a 10 point swing before the half). Maybe OC Smith isn't calling enough plays with the TE as the primary read (like the TD pass to Perkins @ Cal) but I'm thinking Miles doesn't see the field all that well and locks onto Mickens too much.
When he feels pressure, he tends to run into it rather than showing escapability. If he was a good runner, he'd hurt teams in the read option and running when teams drop 7 or 8 when no one is open yet he has just 10 yards on 28 carries this year. At least when Oregon was going into Cover 2 and Cover 3 against Williams, Williams recognized it quickly and ended up running for 28 yards and a TD on 5 carries.
If Miles is cleared to play and Petersen starts him to give him one last shot, at best I see him being marginally successful and Petersen turning to Williams for the second half.
I can see this happening very easily.
I think most are tired of Miles and know he isn't the answer. He'll get a little more leash to once and for all he isn't the guy. The conditions will suck and that will help keep the game close into the half. The move to Williams will be a bolt of energy to the stadium and the team. My guess is that if we win the game it will be because of the changing energy of Williams in one form or another.