You nailed it - The cost of materials due to supply and demand is pricing a lot of people out of new builds making existing homes that much more coveted and driving those costs to some stupid numbers.
The sign in front of our neighborhood, mentioning homes starting at $$, has changed since covid and now shows a 75k increase compared to this time LY.
Yet, they are almost sold out of lots and are currently working on 4 homes. Riches going to rich... bigger and newer homes in the back half of the neighborhood.
My observations (just one retard at the lumber yard) suggest you have the direction of that causal relationship backward.
Home prices were already crazy when COVID took out the lumber mills. Shortages in supply led to the lumber prices skyrocketing. This all makes sense so far. What's weird now is that the lumber mills have been off to the races for some time now, inventory at the yard is sky high like I've never seen, and yet the price of materials has held firm at record high. Meanwhile, housing prices just keep climbing.
What this suggests me to is that it was the lumber shortage that caused the price spike, at the same time the RE shortage drove demand for lumber/materials. The price of materials tripled, yet people kept buying in huge volume. You're the mill/yard/etc., what is your motivation to lower the price back down? This is why I fear that these new lumber prices may be around for a lot longer. To me, it looks like it's the price of RE that's still driving construction demand, which is driving high materials cost.
I saw the Trademark show in 05 and immediately wanted to sell the Seattle home and start flipping. It was the coolest thing ever
I tell my wife we could go to some out of the way place like Aberdeen (true story) and buy in low, and start stacking modest profits until we move on to bigger markets
I saw the Trademark show in 05 and immediately wanted to sell the Seattle home and start flipping. It was the coolest thing ever
I tell my wife we could go to some out of the way place like Aberdeen (true story) and buy in low, and start stacking modest profits until we move on to bigger markets
You nailed it - The cost of materials due to supply and demand is pricing a lot of people out of new builds making existing homes that much more coveted and driving those costs to some stupid numbers.
The sign in front of our neighborhood, mentioning homes starting at $$, has changed since covid and now shows a 75k increase compared to this time LY.
Yet, they are almost sold out of lots and are currently working on 4 homes. Riches going to rich... bigger and newer homes in the back half of the neighborhood.
My observations (just one retard at the lumber yard) suggest you have the direction of that causal relationship backward.
Home prices were already crazy when COVID took out the lumber mills. Shortages in supply led to the lumber prices skyrocketing. This all makes sense so far. What's weird now is that the lumber mills have been off to the races for some time now, inventory at the yard is sky high like I've never seen, and yet the price of materials has held firm at record high. Meanwhile, housing prices just keep climbing.
What this suggests me to is that it was the lumber shortage that caused the price spike, at the same time the RE shortage drove demand for lumber/materials. The price of materials tripled, yet people kept buying in huge volume. You're the mill/yard/etc., what is your motivation to lower the price back down? This is why I fear that these new lumber prices may be around for a lot longer. To me, it looks like it's the price of RE that's still driving construction demand, which is driving high materials cost.
Yep, demand has not diminished. People are doing all sorts of home projects now since they've been stuck at home.
You nailed it - The cost of materials due to supply and demand is pricing a lot of people out of new builds making existing homes that much more coveted and driving those costs to some stupid numbers.
The sign in front of our neighborhood, mentioning homes starting at $$, has changed since covid and now shows a 75k increase compared to this time LY.
Yet, they are almost sold out of lots and are currently working on 4 homes. Riches going to rich... bigger and newer homes in the back half of the neighborhood.
My observations (just one retard at the lumber yard) suggest you have the direction of that causal relationship backward.
Home prices were already crazy when COVID took out the lumber mills. Shortages in supply led to the lumber prices skyrocketing. This all makes sense so far. What's weird now is that the lumber mills have been off to the races for some time now, inventory at the yard is sky high like I've never seen, and yet the price of materials has held firm at record high. Meanwhile, housing prices just keep climbing.
What this suggests me to is that it was the lumber shortage that caused the price spike, at the same time the RE shortage drove demand for lumber/materials. The price of materials tripled, yet people kept buying in huge volume. You're the mill/yard/etc., what is your motivation to lower the price back down? This is why I fear that these new lumber prices may be around for a lot longer. To me, it looks like it's the price of RE that's still driving construction demand, which is driving high materials cost.
You in WA? I’m in central texas. For work we talk with builders, realtors, recently a lumber yard, etc.
Not sure if I’m just dumb in understanding what they tell me or its just different different here...
We really didn’t see RE hikes until after covid started. Not stupid ass prices like in parts of WA. We’re not Austin or Dallas. In the middle, no mans land.
Yeah, I'm in Washington. There was already minimal inventory and sky high prices here before COVID. They've definitely gone up since, though.
But this is all totally besides the point seeing hows this is a Bosch dishwasher thread!...
Csb Tim: I started Corching my son's soccer team Monday even though everything I know about soccer comes from watching Lionel Messi highlights on YouTube. The field that we practice on is so potholed that it's an injury waiting to happen, so I thought I'd do my good deed for the day and fill in the worst ankle-twisters with some sand. Since I was at HD anyway to pick up baseboard and trim and scope out the dishwashers for @YellowSnow , I grabbed three bags of sand. Did I read the bags before loading 240 lbs. of sand on the cart? Hell no. "Topping Sand" sounded perfect!
Off to the practice field early to be a hero and fill in some holes. I rip open the bags and dump them into the wheelbarrow, push it over to the holes, and start shoveling it in. And it's REALLY fine! Like, wish I had a dust mask on fine. I'm starting to worry that this stuff isn't going to get the job done (as I'm finishing shoveling three bags of it all over the field) when I decide to actually read one of the empty bags to see what the hell it is: a mixture of graded sand and Portland cement. I had essentially just dumped concrete minus the aggregate all over a soccer field. I am a ratard.
So back to the store today to pick up some topsoil to shovel over the cement before it gets wet and hardens and kills somebody. This time to Lowe's because it's closer, but it also meant more dishwasher scouting (I like to call it DWSing. IWILTD). Here's some intel that's hopefully useful:
Of the flexy plastic integrated handle variety, this model was probably the best:
This handle is more integrated into the door panel, so I don't think it would actually break, but it still feels super flimsy, and the whole door panel flexes when you pull it open. Won't break, but still poor design.
Then there's this:
Noooooope. That whole upper part there is just an ABS plastic piece of shit held on by four screws and some plastic tabs. There's a decent seal on these doors, so it takes a bit of force to pull them open. A sliver of plastic will eventually fatigue and break.
The coup de grace:
Fuck this piece of shit. Not sure if this is my exact dishwasher, but it's the same door panel design. That upper fascia panel-slash-handle WILL break off.
Which brings me to the only of seven Bosch dishwashers I've seen in the last three days that I'd buy:
Uglier? Maybe. Less modern? I guess. But that handle didn't flex and didn't feel like it would rip off. I like the way Bosch dishwashers clean and how quiet they are, but there are some awfully shit design/materials decisions in almost every model.
Yeah, I'm in Washington. There was already minimal inventory and sky high prices here before COVID. They've definitely gone up since, though.
But this is all totally besides the point seeing hows this is a Bosch dishwasher thread!...
Csb Tim: I started Corching my son's soccer team Monday even though everything I know about soccer comes from watching Lionel Messi highlights on YouTube. The field that we practice on is so potholed that it's an injury waiting to happen, so I thought I'd do my good deed for the day and fill in the worst ankle-twisters with some sand. Since I was at HD anyway to pick up baseboard and trim and scope out the dishwashers for @YellowSnow , I grabbed three bags of sand. Did I read the bags before loading 240 lbs. of sand on the cart? Hell no. "Topping Sand" sounded perfect!
Off to the practice field early to be a hero and fill in some holes. I rip open the bags and dump them into the wheelbarrow, push it over to the holes, and start shoveling it in. And it's REALLY fine! Like, wish I had a dust mask on fine. I'm starting to worry that this stuff isn't going to get the job done (as I'm finishing shoveling three bags of it all over the field) when I decide to actually read one of the empty bags to see what the hell it is: a mixture of graded sand and Portland cement. I had essentially just dumped concrete minus the aggregate all over a soccer field. I am a ratard.
So back to the store today to pick up some topsoil to shovel over the cement before it gets wet and hardens and kills somebody. This time to Lowe's because it's closer, but it also meant more dishwasher scouting (I like to call it DWSing. IWILTD). Here's some intel that's hopefully useful:
Of the flexy plastic integrated handle variety, this model was probably the best:
This handle is more integrated into the door panel, so I don't think it would actually break, but it still feels super flimsy, and the whole door panel flexes when you pull it open. Won't break, but still poor design.
Then there's this:
Noooooope. That whole upper part there is just an ABS plastic piece of shit held on by four screws and some plastic tabs. There's a decent seal on these doors, so it takes a bit of force to pull them open. A sliver of plastic will eventually fatigue and break.
The coup de grace:
Fuck this piece of shit. Not sure if this is my exact dishwasher, but it's the same door panel design. That upper fascia panel-slash-handle WILL break off.
Which brings me to the only of seven Bosch dishwashers I've seen in the last three days that I'd buy:
Uglier? Maybe. Less modern? I guess. But that handle didn't flex and didn't feel like it would rip off. I like the way Bosch dishwashers clean and how quiet they are, but there are some awfully shit design/materials decisions in almost every model.
I have the top one. No problems with the handle thus far. Only been about 1.5 years though. Agree, seal is super tight and requires a pull. I like the machine and how it performs, as you said. I can see some cheapness here and there, but fuck does it clean dishes, the filter is easy to remove and clean and it doesn't melt plastic stuff because there's no heating element.
Overall I'd buy another one based on my experience thus far.
Yeah, I'm in Washington. There was already minimal inventory and sky high prices here before COVID. They've definitely gone up since, though.
But this is all totally besides the point seeing hows this is a Bosch dishwasher thread!...
Csb Tim: I started Corching my son's soccer team Monday even though everything I know about soccer comes from watching Lionel Messi highlights on YouTube. The field that we practice on is so potholed that it's an injury waiting to happen, so I thought I'd do my good deed for the day and fill in the worst ankle-twisters with some sand. Since I was at HD anyway to pick up baseboard and trim and scope out the dishwashers for @YellowSnow , I grabbed three bags of sand. Did I read the bags before loading 240 lbs. of sand on the cart? Hell no. "Topping Sand" sounded perfect!
Off to the practice field early to be a hero and fill in some holes. I rip open the bags and dump them into the wheelbarrow, push it over to the holes, and start shoveling it in. And it's REALLY fine! Like, wish I had a dust mask on fine. I'm starting to worry that this stuff isn't going to get the job done (as I'm finishing shoveling three bags of it all over the field) when I decide to actually read one of the empty bags to see what the hell it is: a mixture of graded sand and Portland cement. I had essentially just dumped concrete minus the aggregate all over a soccer field. I am a ratard.
So back to the store today to pick up some topsoil to shovel over the cement before it gets wet and hardens and kills somebody. This time to Lowe's because it's closer, but it also meant more dishwasher scouting (I like to call it DWSing. IWILTD). Here's some intel that's hopefully useful:
Of the flexy plastic integrated handle variety, this model was probably the best:
This handle is more integrated into the door panel, so I don't think it would actually break, but it still feels super flimsy, and the whole door panel flexes when you pull it open. Won't break, but still poor design.
Then there's this:
Noooooope. That whole upper part there is just an ABS plastic piece of shit held on by four screws and some plastic tabs. There's a decent seal on these doors, so it takes a bit of force to pull them open. A sliver of plastic will eventually fatigue and break.
The coup de grace:
Fuck this piece of shit. Not sure if this is my exact dishwasher, but it's the same door panel design. That upper fascia panel-slash-handle WILL break off.
Which brings me to the only of seven Bosch dishwashers I've seen in the last three days that I'd buy:
Uglier? Maybe. Less modern? I guess. But that handle didn't flex and didn't feel like it would rip off. I like the way Bosch dishwashers clean and how quiet they are, but there are some awfully shit design/materials decisions in almost every model.
I have the top one. No problems with the handle thus far. Only been about 1.5 years though. Agree, seal is super tight and requires a pull. I like the machine and how it performs, as you said. I can see some cheapness here and there, but fuck does it clean dishes, the filter is easy to remove and clean and it doesn't melt plastic stuff because there's no heating element.
Overall I'd buy another one based on my experience thus far.
I’ve got the second one, and no problems 2 years in...handle panel is sturdy (for now)...ours is an ADA, because apparently the guy who had our house built was a midget (he was actually 5’5, so I’m told)...
All the rage with the cost of development these days
Bingo.
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
Lot of truth here
The problem is the shitty homes are overpriced limiting how much to light on fire remodeling it and still getting a return. If that matters which it usually does
You could take any house to the studs that is on a nice lot and build it back better (SWIDT). If you hire a good GC you can get it done fast. But its 100 grand easy. Or you could call @1to392831weretaken and spread it out over years of pain and suffering
As a contractor I always say there is nothing we can't do with your money
I like to say that
I’ve gotta interview GC’s this coming week. Worst year ever to remodel. Oh well.
This for the kitchen? At least there's not a lot of lumber involved in that. The main problem with a lot of other materials isn't so much the cost but the wait. Eight weeks for a bathroom vanity. We got our bedroom carpet in Friday, so it's time for base and trim. I'd rather have the doors and door moulding in before installing the baseboard so I don't have to trim the baseboard later. Like a fucking idiot, I rock up to HD thinking I'm going home with some doors. Nooooope. If I want anything close to matching the rest of the house, it's make 'em myself or wait until June. Trying to decide how much more pain and suffering I'm into...
We’re already planing for the delays and getting appliances ordered now. What a shit show. Liking the new Bosch dishwashers based on @BennyBeaver recommendation.
I fucking hate Bosch. As Turdbomber said: Miele wiff a bullet
Miele. 15 years running strong. Service techs came out twice when my wife put the wrong rinser in. Never a service charge. Never.
Instead they thanked us for buying a Miele. Fucking Rocks.
That's a level above. That shits costs $$, but your take is consistent with anybody I know who has any of their stuff.
Next canister vac will be a Miele. But the Kenmore/Panasonic it will replace is a tough little bastard that works as good as new and shows no signs of quitting yet.
Miele. 15 years running strong. Service techs came out twice when my wife put the wrong rinser in. Never a service charge. Never.
Instead they thanked us for buying a Miele. Fucking Rocks.
That's a level above. That shits costs $$, but your take is consistent with anybody I know who has any of their stuff.
Next canister vac will be a Miele. But the Kenmore/Panasonic it will replace is a tough little bastard that works as good as new and shows no signs of quitting yet.
Vacuum HAWT Talk!
We've had a Miele canister vac for ~20 years. It's a $1k model. Had to have the cord retractor replaced after 15 years. Other than that pretty solid. Too solid (heavy and cumbersome) in fact for the wife who insisted on a Dyson Animal which she loves. Cordless and lightweight. Due to dwag hair, we have to vacuum urryday.
Miele. 15 years running strong. Service techs came out twice when my wife put the wrong rinser in. Never a service charge. Never.
Instead they thanked us for buying a Miele. Fucking Rocks.
That's a level above. That shits costs $$, but your take is consistent with anybody I know who has any of their stuff.
Next canister vac will be a Miele. But the Kenmore/Panasonic it will replace is a tough little bastard that works as good as new and shows no signs of quitting yet.
Vacuum HAWT Talk!
We've had a Miele canister vac for ~20 years. It's a $1k model. Had to have the cord retractor replaced after 15 years. Other than that pretty solid. Too solid (heavy and cumbersome) in fact for the wife who insisted on a Dyson Animal which she loves. Cordless and lightweight. Due to dwag hair, we have to vacuum urryday.
Don't get me going on quality tools or appliances, or I'll rip through my pants. There's no substitute for HQ tools.
Miele. 15 years running strong. Service techs came out twice when my wife put the wrong rinser in. Never a service charge. Never.
Instead they thanked us for buying a Miele. Fucking Rocks.
That's a level above. That shits costs $$, but your take is consistent with anybody I know who has any of their stuff.
Next canister vac will be a Miele. But the Kenmore/Panasonic it will replace is a tough little bastard that works as good as new and shows no signs of quitting yet.
Vacuum HAWT Talk!
We've had a Miele canister vac for ~20 years. It's a $1k model. Had to have the cord retractor replaced after 15 years. Other than that pretty solid. Too solid (heavy and cumbersome) in fact for the wife who insisted on a Dyson Animal which she loves. Cordless and lightweight. Due to dwag hair, we have to vacuum urryday.
Don't get me going on quality tools or appliances, or I'll rip through my pants. There's no substitute for HQ tools.
Miele. 15 years running strong. Service techs came out twice when my wife put the wrong rinser in. Never a service charge. Never.
Instead they thanked us for buying a Miele. Fucking Rocks.
That's a level above. That shits costs $$, but your take is consistent with anybody I know who has any of their stuff.
Next canister vac will be a Miele. But the Kenmore/Panasonic it will replace is a tough little bastard that works as good as new and shows no signs of quitting yet.
Vacuum HAWT Talk!
We've had a Miele canister vac for ~20 years. It's a $1k model. Had to have the cord retractor replaced after 15 years. Other than that pretty solid. Too solid (heavy and cumbersome) in fact for the wife who insisted on a Dyson Animal which she loves. Cordless and lightweight. Due to dwag hair, we have to vacuum urryday.
Don't get me going on quality tools or appliances, or I'll rip through my pants. There's no substitute for HQ tools.
Comments
Home prices were already crazy when COVID took out the lumber mills. Shortages in supply led to the lumber prices skyrocketing. This all makes sense so far. What's weird now is that the lumber mills have been off to the races for some time now, inventory at the yard is sky high like I've never seen, and yet the price of materials has held firm at record high. Meanwhile, housing prices just keep climbing.
What this suggests me to is that it was the lumber shortage that caused the price spike, at the same time the RE shortage drove demand for lumber/materials. The price of materials tripled, yet people kept buying in huge volume. You're the mill/yard/etc., what is your motivation to lower the price back down? This is why I fear that these new lumber prices may be around for a lot longer. To me, it looks like it's the price of RE that's still driving construction demand, which is driving high materials cost.
The only thing I'm interested in putting up in the future is a tent.
Not sure if I’m just dumb in understanding what they tell me or its just different different here...
We really didn’t see RE hikes until after covid started. Not stupid ass prices like in parts of WA. We’re not Austin or Dallas. In the middle, no mans land.
But this is all totally besides the point seeing hows this is a Bosch dishwasher thread!...
Csb Tim: I started Corching my son's soccer team Monday even though everything I know about soccer comes from watching Lionel Messi highlights on YouTube. The field that we practice on is so potholed that it's an injury waiting to happen, so I thought I'd do my good deed for the day and fill in the worst ankle-twisters with some sand. Since I was at HD anyway to pick up baseboard and trim and scope out the dishwashers for @YellowSnow , I grabbed three bags of sand. Did I read the bags before loading 240 lbs. of sand on the cart? Hell no. "Topping Sand" sounded perfect!
Off to the practice field early to be a hero and fill in some holes. I rip open the bags and dump them into the wheelbarrow, push it over to the holes, and start shoveling it in. And it's REALLY fine! Like, wish I had a dust mask on fine. I'm starting to worry that this stuff isn't going to get the job done (as I'm finishing shoveling three bags of it all over the field) when I decide to actually read one of the empty bags to see what the hell it is: a mixture of graded sand and Portland cement. I had essentially just dumped concrete minus the aggregate all over a soccer field. I am a ratard.
So back to the store today to pick up some topsoil to shovel over the cement before it gets wet and hardens and kills somebody. This time to Lowe's because it's closer, but it also meant more dishwasher scouting (I like to call it DWSing. IWILTD). Here's some intel that's hopefully useful:
Of the flexy plastic integrated handle variety, this model was probably the best:
This handle is more integrated into the door panel, so I don't think it would actually break, but it still feels super flimsy, and the whole door panel flexes when you pull it open. Won't break, but still poor design.
Then there's this:
Noooooope. That whole upper part there is just an ABS plastic piece of shit held on by four screws and some plastic tabs. There's a decent seal on these doors, so it takes a bit of force to pull them open. A sliver of plastic will eventually fatigue and break.
The coup de grace:
Fuck this piece of shit. Not sure if this is my exact dishwasher, but it's the same door panel design. That upper fascia panel-slash-handle WILL break off.
Which brings me to the only of seven Bosch dishwashers I've seen in the last three days that I'd buy:
Uglier? Maybe. Less modern? I guess. But that handle didn't flex and didn't feel like it would rip off. I like the way Bosch dishwashers clean and how quiet they are, but there are some awfully shit design/materials decisions in almost every model.
Overall I'd buy another one based on my experience thus far.
Instead they thanked us for buying a Miele. Fucking Rocks.
We've had a Miele canister vac for ~20 years. It's a $1k model. Had to have the cord retractor replaced after 15 years. Other than that pretty solid. Too solid (heavy and cumbersome) in fact for the wife who insisted on a Dyson Animal which she loves. Cordless and lightweight. Due to dwag hair, we have to vacuum urryday.
Fuck You, @HarborFreightDawg!