What do we do about renters' debt?
This talks about NYC specially, but it's a microcosm of the larger script that we all saw coming a year ago, and it's continuing to play out all over the country. Locality/state forces lockdown, low income service workers get fucked the hardest, rent doesn't get paid, landlords get behind on their mortgages. We've now pit the low income renters versus what's often a working class landlord. Not to say that mildly well-to-do folks with investment rental property are undeserving of empathy either.
Theoretically there's billions of dollars lined up from Biden's stimulus to pay the overdue rent. But we're not dumb observers of history here, and we know a significant portion of these low income renters won't get access to funds for some varying reasons of shitty bureaucracy. And they'll get evicted. And they'll become homeless. And they'll end up having been fucked by forces way out of their control. Such is the story of the underclass.
Meanwhile the stocks of the lending banks of the aforementioned mortgages have exceeded their pre-pandemic levels. SBC is vesting like nothing happened. They still laugh over $70 martinis about the bonuses they received in 2011 after a well-earned recovery propped up by Uncle Sam. Karmic justice, or any sort of demonstration of morality by the universe would say these fat cats can hold the bag just this once. I don't know what the exact combination of legislative or executive levers the feds could pull is, but I'm sure there's an avenue for them to take that'll ensure renters and landlords both come out whole at the expense of the billion dollar banking titans.
But I don't think that's in the script.
Comments
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I don’t know how to have this conversation without it going full Tug, unfortunately, because any root cause or solution is going to be deeply enmeshed with politics, specifically the federal/state/local governments responses to COVID (though goodness knows housing was an issue in many areas prior to the pandemic).
However it’s dealt with, it won’t be fair, it will hurt, and could potentially have long term ripple effects.
Of course, there will be TONS of lawsuits.
I don’t know, maybe having a debt jubilee for EVERYONE.gif like in biblical times is the only answer. -
Our? delivery system sucks which is not a partisan statement
I doubt that more than 5 cents on the dollar ever gets to who needs it
Wild ass guess but still -
100% agree.RaceBannon said:Our? delivery system sucks which is not a partisan statement
I doubt that more than 5 cents on the dollar ever gets to who needs it
Wild ass guess but still -
Stimulus ain't gonna help shit. If I'm renting and can't be evicted, and I'm broke, I'm using that $$ on food and keeping the heat on. And even if I did use it on rent, $1400 buys us how much time?GreenRiverGatorz said:https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-tenants-owe-billions-unpaid-rent-what-happens-now
This talks about NYC specially, but it's a microcosm of the larger script that we all saw coming a year ago, and it's continuing to play out all over the country. Locality/state forces lockdown, low income service workers get fucked the hardest, rent doesn't get paid, landlords get behind on their mortgages. We've now pit the low income renters versus what's often a working class landlord. Not to say that mildly well-to-do folks with investment rental property are undeserving of empathy either.
Theoretically there's billions of dollars lined up from Biden's stimulus to pay the overdue rent. But we're not dumb observers of history here, and we know a significant portion of these low income renters won't get access to funds for some varying reasons of shitty bureaucracy. And they'll get evicted. And they'll become homeless. And they'll end up having been fucked by forces way out of their control. Such is the story of the underclass.
Meanwhile the stocks of the lending banks of the aforementioned mortgages have exceeded their pre-pandemic levels. SBC is vesting like nothing happened. They still laugh over $70 martinis about the bonuses they received in 2011 after a well-earned recovery propped up by Uncle Sam. Karmic justice, or any sort of demonstration of morality by the universe would say these fat cats can hold the bag just this once. I don't know what the exact combination of legislative or executive levers the feds could pull is, but I'm sure there's an avenue for them to take that'll ensure renters and landlords both come out whole at the expense of the billion dollar banking titans.
But I don't think that's in the script.
I have lost track of how popular mortgage backed securities are. Are banks still bundling them and selling them to wall street who sell them to fixed income investment streams? Is that the next shit balloon that is set pop?
One of the reasons I've not jumped on free money and gone @pawz with a better house is because the cheap mortgage isn't going to take the sting out of overpaying for something by a few hundy if the 2008 housing crash is about to happen. I'm kinda worried about that. The housing shoe has to drop sometime. -
My kid, who is wrapping up a quite expensive private education on Daddy's dime, just got a $1200 drop from the Guv, and within a week a letter came from the IRS advising her that they had paid her $600 because stimulus.RaceBannon said:Our? delivery system sucks which is not a partisan statement
I doubt that more than 5 cents on the dollar ever gets to who needs it
Wild ass guess but still
The other one who is being paid to got to school (and whose room/board/expenses are being covered under the Creepycoug Direct Installment Plan) got one too. Only no letter telling her she was paid 1/2 what she was actually paid, like her sister got.
When I file their taxes (yeah, I still do that), they are each going to get $1,000 education credit just like that. No warning. Just cash. And I'm going to claim a credit for the one who didn't get the first $1200 last summer (even though there is no tax profile difference between them at all), and I'll bet you they send her that one too.
Yeah, these guys have their shit together alright. It is only because of the piles of cash I've paid in taxes that have gone to even worse nonsense that I sleep just fine about these undeserved little windfalls. Fugit.
Don't even get me started on my Chief Spending Officer's adventures with unemployment after getting laid off her "something to do" job. You would think they would look at household income and say "no". Is it any wonder that these dumbfucks got ripped off by the Nigerians to the tune of, what was it? Several billion? Lolz. It's a shit show. -
To be clear, the rent relief is separate from the individual $1400 checks. What the per capita payout will look like is TBD, but I think we all agree that it both won't be enough or doled out effectively.creepycoug said:
Stimulus ain't gonna help shit. If I'm renting and can't be evicted, and I'm broke, I'm using that $$ on food and keeping the heat on. And even if I did use it on rent, $1400 buys us how much time?GreenRiverGatorz said:https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-tenants-owe-billions-unpaid-rent-what-happens-now
This talks about NYC specially, but it's a microcosm of the larger script that we all saw coming a year ago, and it's continuing to play out all over the country. Locality/state forces lockdown, low income service workers get fucked the hardest, rent doesn't get paid, landlords get behind on their mortgages. We've now pit the low income renters versus what's often a working class landlord. Not to say that mildly well-to-do folks with investment rental property are undeserving of empathy either.
Theoretically there's billions of dollars lined up from Biden's stimulus to pay the overdue rent. But we're not dumb observers of history here, and we know a significant portion of these low income renters won't get access to funds for some varying reasons of shitty bureaucracy. And they'll get evicted. And they'll become homeless. And they'll end up having been fucked by forces way out of their control. Such is the story of the underclass.
Meanwhile the stocks of the lending banks of the aforementioned mortgages have exceeded their pre-pandemic levels. SBC is vesting like nothing happened. They still laugh over $70 martinis about the bonuses they received in 2011 after a well-earned recovery propped up by Uncle Sam. Karmic justice, or any sort of demonstration of morality by the universe would say these fat cats can hold the bag just this once. I don't know what the exact combination of legislative or executive levers the feds could pull is, but I'm sure there's an avenue for them to take that'll ensure renters and landlords both come out whole at the expense of the billion dollar banking titans.
But I don't think that's in the script.
I have lost track of how popular mortgage backed securities are. Are banks still bundling them and selling them to wall street who sell them to fixed income investment streams? Is that the next shit balloon that is set pop?
One of the reasons I've not jumped on free money and gone @pawz with a better house is because the cheap mortgage isn't going to take the sting out of overpaying for something by a few hundy if the 2008 housing crash is about to happen. I'm kinda worried about that. The housing shoe has to drop sometime. -
A lot of the first part of this...if the real cost of the lockdowns had been felt by people when they were first going on (ie Fed didn’t step in to print massive amounts of money) people would have gone ape shit on the politicians trying to shut things down and a lot of this mess (and a bunch of other messes) would have been avoided.Doog_de_Jour said:I don’t know how to have this conversation without it going full Tug, unfortunately, because any root cause or solution is going to be deeply enmeshed with politics, specifically the federal/state/local governments responses to COVID (though goodness knows housing was an issue in many areas prior to the pandemic).
However it’s dealt with, it won’t be fair, it will hurt, and could potentially have long term ripple effects.
Of course, there will be TONS of lawsuits.
I don’t know, maybe having a debt jubilee for EVERYONE.gif like in biblical times is the only answer.
In the Tug we blame the politicians...on this bored we blame the Federal Reserve.
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I am also amazed that the banks are trading at multi/all time highs and have sold out as their run has continued.
The back rent money is obviously flushed down the toilet. My assumption is the banks will just pick up where they left off on the mortgages as if the last year didn't happen. -
We blame the politicians here too, we just won't put up with any of the low-brow bullshit. When the ducks aren't allowed in things tend to stay civil.HoustonHusky said:
A lot of the first part of this...if the real cost of the lockdowns had been felt by people when they were first going on (ie Fed didn’t step in to print massive amounts of money) people would have gone ape shit on the politicians trying to shut things down and a lot of this mess (and a bunch of other messes) would have been avoided.Doog_de_Jour said:I don’t know how to have this conversation without it going full Tug, unfortunately, because any root cause or solution is going to be deeply enmeshed with politics, specifically the federal/state/local governments responses to COVID (though goodness knows housing was an issue in many areas prior to the pandemic).
However it’s dealt with, it won’t be fair, it will hurt, and could potentially have long term ripple effects.
Of course, there will be TONS of lawsuits.
I don’t know, maybe having a debt jubilee for EVERYONE.gif like in biblical times is the only answer.
In the Tug we blame the politicians...on this bored we blame the Federal Reserve. -
If you’re a leveraged real estate “Investor” who doesn’t have the ability, knowledge and/or resources to weather the storm, whatever the cause, you give the collateral back to the entity that loaned you the money and everyone moves on.
Solved.
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