Someone PM'd me asking my opinion of the Ted Cruz / Cancun thing

TheKobeStopper said:

RoadTrip said:

TheKobeStopper said:

RoadTrip said:

TheKobeStopper said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna935856

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

Any more lies you want to tell?

Sorry, he wrote that women fantasize about being gang raped. You're right; he's a swell guy. In other words, his grotesque wife was acquitted. Ask the Dazzler what that means.

She wasn’t acquitted, she wasn’t charged.

And some women do. No kink shaming in the tug.

You're right. She was never charged. I don't care what you do or think about. I don't like Bernie or his heinous wife. I know why you do.

Because I love my country and support politicians that want to make it better?

You love your country but want it to take a sharp turn towards socialism.

That makes zero sense btw. Par for the course for you.

The old I love you but I want you to change routine. Never works in relationships either.......because it isn't fucking true.

I'm fairly new and still debating whether you actually think the way you do or are a master troll. Im leaning in the troll direction right now

TheKobeStopper said:

Tequilla said:

TheKobeStopper said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Prestonluv said:

We need to be an issue based political society

This right left shit is out of hand.

Ted Cruz is a corrupt POS
AOC is a corrupt POS
Rudy Guliani is a corrupt POS
Andrew Cuomo is a murderer
Trump is a narcissist
Biden doesn't remember yesterday

I mean fantastic leadership all around. This is what a corrupt two party system has brought us

The right left shit is crazy. Even seemingly intelligent people pick a side and dig in.

“Left vs right” is framing. The middle is every bit a side as anything else. The left wants to progress, the right wants to conserve what we had and the middle wants to maintain where we are.

It would actually be hugely beneficial if the middle would just admit that their position is based on protecting the status quo because they live comfortable lives and don’t want too much to change. It’s not better than people that believe the left is always correct or the right is always correct, it’s just a different flavor.

When you’re starting position is signaling that the left is right and just with the words leveraged to talk about the center/left being effectively people stuck in the past ...

Regardless of where you fall on the spectrum anybody that doesn’t at minimum value the opinions of others is already starting from a flawed starting point

I don’t think progress is inherently good. Nor does wanting progress guarantee progress.

That framing is generous and correct. If you’re taking issue with how it made you feel, that’s your issue. I think both the status quo and the past have value.

I don’t get bent out of shape on comments and get my feelings hurt ...

You know as damn well as anybody that there are a lot of people that lean left that by into the line of thinking I called out

TheKobeStopper said:

Tequilla said:

TheKobeStopper said:

creepycoug said:

TheKobeStopper said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Prestonluv said:

We need to be an issue based political society

This right left shit is out of hand.

Ted Cruz is a corrupt POS
AOC is a corrupt POS
Rudy Guliani is a corrupt POS
Andrew Cuomo is a murderer
Trump is a narcissist
Biden doesn't remember yesterday

I mean fantastic leadership all around. This is what a corrupt two party system has brought us

The right left shit is crazy. Even seemingly intelligent people pick a side and dig in.

“Left vs right” is framing. The middle is every bit a side as anything else. The left wants to progress, the right wants to conserve what we had and the middle wants to maintain where we are.

It would actually be hugely beneficial if the middle would just admit that their position is based on protecting the status quo because they live comfortable lives and don’t want too much to change. It’s not better than people that believe the left is always correct or the right is always correct, it’s just a different flavor.

Yes. I like my status quo. I worked for it. And it’s pretty good. It’s a reasonable compromise to run an ordered society.

It ain’t even gonna be perfect man. I pay a shit load of taxes and have for a good long while, much of it for purposes of helping others. Happy to do it but at some point it’s too much.

Framing can do a lot of work.

See I could say, you want society ordered the way it is, I want socialism, let’s compromise and do universal healthcare and free college.

Why aren’t you willing to do that? I thought you liked compromise? Why are you being such an ideologue? Every other developed country has a form of universal healthcare, why are you so extreme?

I voted for Biden, come on man. This whole “you won’t compromise, you’re demanding a perfect world” schtick only pushes people like me away.

Healthcare is complicated for a number of reasons so I’m not that interested in getting into it now

That said, can you understand why there are people that are at least not fully supportive of continuing education past the the high school level?

There’s always nuance between none and all

I have not heard a good argument for not making college tuition free. If it’s going to be some shit about not being fair to people that already paid, don’t waste our time.

1) I personally believe that there’s value in college students working their way through school, getting internships, being accountable, and learning the value of a dollar ... college isn’t all about getting drunk, drugs, having sex, and then emerging with a golden ticket

2) I’m a huge advocate for college being affordable ... particularly at the state level. For example, I think there should be a tuition cap on in-state students at the University of Washington that allows for tuition to be covered by what I described above (working 20 hours a week during the school year and 40 hours a week during the summer). I’m for looking into establishing funding that provides opportunity for students not only from low income environments but also providing opportunity for those who become the first generation in their family to receive a college education. I feel like these types of actions are targeted and move in the direction of addressing some of the existing challenges in the system.

3) I’d be open to talking about private school access but feel like that operates more as a private business where supply/demand and price elasticity elements are more applicable than at the state level

A couple of the reasons that I have an issue with universally free college education is as follows:

1) What qualifies for free tuition? Is it just 4 year public schools only? What about community colleges? What about trade or vocational schools or programs? Graduate degrees?

Additionally, how do we measure success? Are there guidelines and mileposts that you need to meet? Certain number of years of credits covered?

Frankly, I haven’t heard many advocates of free tuition get deep in establishing the controls on the blank checks.

2) As I’ve consistently said across many discussion topics, it’s easy for me to get behind changing environments today forward. Changing the rules or playing field retroactively is a harder bar for me to cross in supporting.

You’re statement suggests that you’re closed minded to any discussion saying paying off tuition $$$ is unfair to those that have already paid while offering really zero explanation for why that is the case. Your comment frankly reads that anybody that has either paid off their debt or didn’t incur it was either rich enough that they didn’t need the $$$ anyway or were suckers.

There are a lot of people that have worked very hard to play by the rules presented to them and have held to the commitments that they made. What are we telling those people? I seriously doubt you’d advocate for reimbursement of loans paid or effectively retro scholarships for those that busted their ass to avoid incurring debt.

And for the record I’m very sympathetic to those that have racked up significant student loan debt. I will always be supportive of below market and/or even interest free to decrease burden as appropriate. I also understand that the inability to pay loans can be through no fault of the individual and would be very supportive of creating paths for retiring debt with service (think back to JFK calls for service, perhaps this generations call is in closing the educational gap in underserved communities - purely spitballing here). But I also feel like there’s also an accountability concern for the individual that for example racked up $200K in debt pursuing a degree that has zero transferable traits to the professional world and the ability to make an earning. I don’t want to bury that person in debt. But shouldn’t we also be accountable in some manner for our choices?

3) Finally, how is the loan forgiveness going to be paid for? I’m assuming this is through additional taxes ... which seems like the answer to everything. How will the programs be paid going forward? Are we at risk at crumbling the educational infrastructure?

As I think you can now see, I see a lot more nuance to this topic outside of “it’s not fair.”

TheKobeStopper said:

PurpleThrobber said:

TheKobeStopper said:

Tequilla said:

TheKobeStopper said:

creepycoug said:

TheKobeStopper said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Prestonluv said:

We need to be an issue based political society

This right left shit is out of hand.

Ted Cruz is a corrupt POS
AOC is a corrupt POS
Rudy Guliani is a corrupt POS
Andrew Cuomo is a murderer
Trump is a narcissist
Biden doesn't remember yesterday

I mean fantastic leadership all around. This is what a corrupt two party system has brought us

The right left shit is crazy. Even seemingly intelligent people pick a side and dig in.

“Left vs right” is framing. The middle is every bit a side as anything else. The left wants to progress, the right wants to conserve what we had and the middle wants to maintain where we are.

It would actually be hugely beneficial if the middle would just admit that their position is based on protecting the status quo because they live comfortable lives and don’t want too much to change. It’s not better than people that believe the left is always correct or the right is always correct, it’s just a different flavor.

Yes. I like my status quo. I worked for it. And it’s pretty good. It’s a reasonable compromise to run an ordered society.

It ain’t even gonna be perfect man. I pay a shit load of taxes and have for a good long while, much of it for purposes of helping others. Happy to do it but at some point it’s too much.

Framing can do a lot of work.

See I could say, you want society ordered the way it is, I want socialism, let’s compromise and do universal healthcare and free college.

Why aren’t you willing to do that? I thought you liked compromise? Why are you being such an ideologue? Every other developed country has a form of universal healthcare, why are you so extreme?

I voted for Biden, come on man. This whole “you won’t compromise, you’re demanding a perfect world” schtick only pushes people like me away.

Healthcare is complicated for a number of reasons so I’m not that interested in getting into it now

That said, can you understand why there are people that are at least not fully supportive of continuing education past the the high school level?

There’s always nuance between none and all

I have not heard a good argument for not making college tuition free. If it’s going to be some shit about not being fair to people that already paid, don’t waste our time.

I have not heard a good argument for not making housing free

Agree.

Perhaps a better question for you ... what do you think shouldn’t be free?