Welcome to the Hardcore Husky Forums. Folks who are well-known in Cyberland and not that dumb.
I've been thinking ...
creepycoug
Member Posts: 24,282
This one is for the Philosopher King Bros. Those poasters who, like F. Scott Fitzgerald's Monroe Stahr, and Creepycoug, prefer to ascertain the essence of things.* While our brothers of the Tug carry on with their tedious and pedantic sermonizing, we? men (and woman) of means are afforded the luxury of security and thus moar time for higher-level thinking. That's what it means to be a Finance Bro./Sista. With that in mind, amidst the tumult of the last few weeks in the markets, I reprise a question I've been asking people for years:
To what end purpose are the US capital markets? Isn't it like anything else in that it is there to serve a fundamental purpose in our society? Isn't it the case that the ultimate point of the markets is to serve as a place where interests in going concerns are traded and thus valued according to what the highest-paying buyer is willing to pay? If you agree with that on a basic level, what are your serious thoughts about the market becoming a casino? Is that why it's there? Does it do damage to the market that it has become so? I will proffer for consideration the following radical thought:
The market exists for corporate capital aggregation and therefore for legitimate investing in a going concern. Therefore, should there be a basic rule that any exchange-traded security be bought and sold only for "bona fide" investment purposes? Towards that end, should Congress pass laws and direct the SEC to adopt rules and regulations pursuant to those laws that require that any person who buys an equity security on a US stock exchange hold that security for a minimum period of time? The holding period could be a day, a week, whatever. At the same time, outlaw, or regulate with massive transparency, shorts and options (put and call) in such securities?
Should we eliminate all of this Malarkey and keep these clean capital markets free from all those silk suits and oily hair grease balls passing themselves off as real investors while in reality warping the reality of market forces with their shenanigans, tomfoolery and ballyhoo? For God's sake, we regulate actual, straight-forward gambling with cards and gameboards. How can we not limit how many people thwart and exploit (I know, sensitive word) the capital markets?
*Creepycoug had flown up very high to see, on strong wings, when he was young. And while he was up there he had looked on all the kingdoms, with the kind of eyes that can stare straight into the sun. Beating his wings tenaciously – even frantically – and keeping on beating them, he had stayed up there longer than most of us, and then, remembering all he had seen from his great height of how things were, he had settled gradually to earth.
The Last Tycoon
F. Scott Fitzgerald
To what end purpose are the US capital markets? Isn't it like anything else in that it is there to serve a fundamental purpose in our society? Isn't it the case that the ultimate point of the markets is to serve as a place where interests in going concerns are traded and thus valued according to what the highest-paying buyer is willing to pay? If you agree with that on a basic level, what are your serious thoughts about the market becoming a casino? Is that why it's there? Does it do damage to the market that it has become so? I will proffer for consideration the following radical thought:
The market exists for corporate capital aggregation and therefore for legitimate investing in a going concern. Therefore, should there be a basic rule that any exchange-traded security be bought and sold only for "bona fide" investment purposes? Towards that end, should Congress pass laws and direct the SEC to adopt rules and regulations pursuant to those laws that require that any person who buys an equity security on a US stock exchange hold that security for a minimum period of time? The holding period could be a day, a week, whatever. At the same time, outlaw, or regulate with massive transparency, shorts and options (put and call) in such securities?
Should we eliminate all of this Malarkey and keep these clean capital markets free from all those silk suits and oily hair grease balls passing themselves off as real investors while in reality warping the reality of market forces with their shenanigans, tomfoolery and ballyhoo? For God's sake, we regulate actual, straight-forward gambling with cards and gameboards. How can we not limit how many people thwart and exploit (I know, sensitive word) the capital markets?
*Creepycoug had flown up very high to see, on strong wings, when he was young. And while he was up there he had looked on all the kingdoms, with the kind of eyes that can stare straight into the sun. Beating his wings tenaciously – even frantically – and keeping on beating them, he had stayed up there longer than most of us, and then, remembering all he had seen from his great height of how things were, he had settled gradually to earth.
The Last Tycoon
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Comments
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It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work? -
Like Washington football damnit! ???dflea said:It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work?
Does all the derivative trading and bullshit thwart the real price of a stock? Does it contribute to market destabilization? Does it, in the long run, compromise the public's confidence in the capital markets, which is so important?
Was my poast a beautiful waste of tim?
Where are my philosopher kings? @YellowSnow ??? -
Fuck the stock market. Actually, my family owns many shares I just don't know which ones.creepycoug said:
Like Washington football damnit! ???dflea said:It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work?
Does all the derivative trading and bullshit thwart the real price of a stock? Does it contribute to market destabilization? Does it, in the long run, compromise the public's confidence in the capital markets, which is so important?
Was my poast a beautiful waste of tim?
Where are my philosopher kings? @YellowSnow ???
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I feel like I should make money in the stock market, the old fashioned way, which is to earn it over the long haul.
I don't get all this day trading bull shit, short sells, and all the other malarkey.
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On this board, we capitalize "Malarkey".YellowSnow said:I feel like I should make money in the stock market, the old fashioned way, which is to earn it over the long haul.
I don't get all this day trading bull shit, short sells, and all the other malarkey.
Just a heads up. -
My choice of gif has my proxy.creepycoug said:
On this board, we capitalize "Malarkey".YellowSnow said:I feel like I should make money in the stock market, the old fashioned way, which is to earn it over the long haul.
I don't get all this day trading bull shit, short sells, and all the other malarkey.
Just a heads up. -
I hate the derivatives market. It's just a way for smart money people to muddy the waters so stupid money people can be more easily taken advantage of - and even people of above average intelligence are money stupid when it comes to things like derivatives. Shoot, you had Moody's putting triple A ratings on garbage, and the investment sides of banks peddling stocks of companies they were financing on the VC side. Complete bullshit.creepycoug said:
Like Washington football damnit! ???dflea said:It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work?
Does all the derivative trading and bullshit thwart the real price of a stock? Does it contribute to market destabilization? Does it, in the long run, compromise the public's confidence in the capital markets, which is so important?
Was my poast a beautiful waste of tim?
Where are my philosopher kings? @YellowSnow ???
That's the shit that rattles people's confidence, IMO. If I can't trust Moody's to tell me what's crap and what isn't, then who can you trust?
Those Moody's boys have Ivy League degrees, too. Shouldn't they have known better? I think they did - they're just not trustworthy.
I liked your poast - I was just busy at work today, so I had to wait to expand on my comments. In my experience, our politicians are more likely to break the stock market than they are to fix it. Any elected official at the federal level should be forced to divest completely from the market to avoid impropriety, IMO. That will fix more than anything those retarded assholes could pass as legislation.
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Problem isn’t the derivatives trading and all that other craziness...problem is simply the Fed. Or specifically the Fed printing $$$ to try and act like benevolent overlords thinking the short term meth hit has no long-term consequences. 12 years and still going of heavy meth use isn’t good on a person...or an economy.creepycoug said:
Like Washington football damnit! ???dflea said:It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work?
Does all the derivative trading and bullshit thwart the real price of a stock? Does it contribute to market destabilization? Does it, in the long run, compromise the public's confidence in the capital markets, which is so important?
Was my poast a beautiful waste of tim?
Where are my philosopher kings? @YellowSnow ???
Recessions happen...the idea we need 0 or negative interest rates to prevent them is academic stupid, and the side effect of providing an unlimited spigot of cash to the govt with no consequences is as obviously a bad idea as giving a kid a case of fun dip candy and telling him to only eat one package. It won’t happen, and the kid will be bouncing off the walls afterwards hopped up on sugar doing all sorts of stupid things...kinda like the govt now. This is painfully obvious to everyone but the FS “smartest men and women in the room” academics now running things.
Add to that the side effect on the private sector in funding all sorts of FS projects in hopes of getting a return...any return on their money because interest rates are so low and it’s one big fucking mess.
I remember after the 2008 crash there was one economist who was preaching that the Fed should never, ever let interest rates go under 2% and he was roundly ignored and ridiculed.
And he was right.
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Disagree.HoustonHusky said:
Problem isn’t the derivatives trading and all that other craziness...problem is simply the Fed. Or specifically the Fed printing $$$ to try and act like benevolent overlords thinking the short term meth hit has no long-term consequences. 12 years and still going of heavy meth use isn’t good on a person...or an economy.creepycoug said:
Like Washington football damnit! ???dflea said:It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work?
Does all the derivative trading and bullshit thwart the real price of a stock? Does it contribute to market destabilization? Does it, in the long run, compromise the public's confidence in the capital markets, which is so important?
Was my poast a beautiful waste of tim?
Where are my philosopher kings? @YellowSnow ???
Recessions happen...the idea we need 0 or negative interest rates to prevent them is academic stupid, and the side effect of providing an unlimited spigot of cash to the govt with no consequences is as obviously a bad idea as giving a kid a case of fun dip candy and telling him to only eat one package. It won’t happen, and the kid will be bouncing off the walls afterwards hopped up on sugar doing all sorts of stupid things...kinda like the govt now. This is painfully obvious to everyone but the FS “smartest men and women in the room” academics now running things.
Add to that the side effect on the private sector in funding all sorts of FS projects in hopes of getting a return...any return on their money because interest rates are so low and it’s one big fucking mess.
I remember after the 2008 crash there was one economist who was preaching that the Fed should never, ever let interest rates go under 2% and he was roundly ignored and ridiculed.
And he was right. -
It’s like playing wack-a-mole. Say you fix the “derivatives” and say limit short-selling or whatever you think is the problem. It still doesn’t fix the fundamental instability in the system...the world being awash with free money meaning everyone will try to leverage up with little consequence (because of crazy low interest rates) to get rich. The biggest deterrent to taking that risk is having to pay a $$$ premium to do it. Which you don’t when rates are so low.dflea said:
Disagree.HoustonHusky said:
Problem isn’t the derivatives trading and all that other craziness...problem is simply the Fed. Or specifically the Fed printing $$$ to try and act like benevolent overlords thinking the short term meth hit has no long-term consequences. 12 years and still going of heavy meth use isn’t good on a person...or an economy.creepycoug said:
Like Washington football damnit! ???dflea said:It doesn't look broken to me.
Can't we? fix something that doesn't work?
Does all the derivative trading and bullshit thwart the real price of a stock? Does it contribute to market destabilization? Does it, in the long run, compromise the public's confidence in the capital markets, which is so important?
Was my poast a beautiful waste of tim?
Where are my philosopher kings? @YellowSnow ???
Recessions happen...the idea we need 0 or negative interest rates to prevent them is academic stupid, and the side effect of providing an unlimited spigot of cash to the govt with no consequences is as obviously a bad idea as giving a kid a case of fun dip candy and telling him to only eat one package. It won’t happen, and the kid will be bouncing off the walls afterwards hopped up on sugar doing all sorts of stupid things...kinda like the govt now. This is painfully obvious to everyone but the FS “smartest men and women in the room” academics now running things.
Add to that the side effect on the private sector in funding all sorts of FS projects in hopes of getting a return...any return on their money because interest rates are so low and it’s one big fucking mess.
I remember after the 2008 crash there was one economist who was preaching that the Fed should never, ever let interest rates go under 2% and he was roundly ignored and ridiculed.
And he was right.
it will just pop up as some other crisis a few years later.
