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Change my mind Duck fans.šŸ˜

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  • IPukeOregonGrellowIPukeOregonGrellow Member Posts: 2,183
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment

    ramenduck said:

    Shuck gained a lot of experience this year, but IMO did not improve much from game #1 to game #7. In fact, possibly the opposite.

    Good kid. I hope he puts it together, but I'm more optimistic about what we have coming in.

    I really hope he succeeds in Eugene but he seems like a difference-maker in the Big Sky but just a guy in FBS, and just a guy doesnā€™t make the playoff.
    image

    Give Shough a running game, a right tackle and hopefully Troy Franklin if @WilburHooksHands doesn't flip him and he'll mostly be fine if he keeps the job. You also need to instill into him that attacking the middle of the field like he's Justin Herbert is akin to Jamie Moyer attacking hitters like he's Nolan Ryan.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Standard Supporter

    ramenduck said:

    Shuck gained a lot of experience this year, but IMO did not improve much from game #1 to game #7. In fact, possibly the opposite.

    Good kid. I hope he puts it together, but I'm more optimistic about what we have coming in.

    I really hope he succeeds in Eugene but he seems like a difference-maker in the Big Sky but just a guy in FBS, and just a guy doesnā€™t make the playoff.
    I've not heard any news to the contrary, but Brown should come back. I think he's got a great shot at beating out Shuck in the off season. He showed what he's capable of with his arm and is a much bigger running threat. The RPO works best when the defense is afraid of your QB holding the ball. If they're not, it's an instantly shitty offense.
    It would also be nice to have a QB who wasn't good for at least one brutal turnover a game. His inability to use the middle of the field is also very troubling. The Shuck experiment is over, time to move on.
  • rodmansragerodmansrage Member Posts: 6,009
    5 Up Votes First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes

    Fife will be better than Harrington

    Eason will be better than Browning.

  • RatherBeBrewingRatherBeBrewing Member Posts: 1,557
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment 5 Awesomes
    I may have promised to gouge my eyes out if I see Tyler Shough starting another game.
    Iā€™m on the record as saying I donā€™t want the offense to Shough anymore. Amazingly, after rewatching games, I donā€™t think heā€™s a lost cause. I still want a different QB and am 81% sure he sucks and should be playing for Northern Arizona, but heā€™s not as bad as I had convinced myself.

    * Consistency is the issue.
    Great:
    WTF?

    Decision making and pocket presence is suspect, when he makes the obvious choice, or the right decision on where to go or whether to take off it can look good.





    My theory is that starting from around the third or fourth quarter of the Oregon State game the yips got him and took an above average QB to Jeff Lockiean levels. Chuck Knoblauch.
  • ntxduckntxduck Member Posts: 5,512
    5 Awesomes First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment

    I may have promised to gouge my eyes out if I see Tyler Shough starting another game.
    Iā€™m on the record as saying I donā€™t want the offense to Shough anymore. Amazingly, after rewatching games, I donā€™t think heā€™s a lost cause. I still want a different QB and am 81% sure he sucks and should be playing for Northern Arizona, but heā€™s not as bad as I had convinced myself.

    * Consistency is the issue.
    Great:
    WTF?

    Decision making and pocket presence is suspect, when he makes the obvious choice, or the right decision on where to go or whether to take off it can look good.





    My theory is that starting from around the third or fourth quarter of the Oregon State game the yips got him and took an above average QB to Jeff Lockiean levels. Chuck Knoblauch.

    No he just sucks. He sucked against Stanford. Threw at least 3 ints that should have been housed for tds that were flat dropped.
  • RatherBeBrewingRatherBeBrewing Member Posts: 1,557
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment 5 Awesomes
    ntxduck said:

    I may have promised to gouge my eyes out if I see Tyler Shough starting another game.
    Iā€™m on the record as saying I donā€™t want the offense to Shough anymore. Amazingly, after rewatching games, I donā€™t think heā€™s a lost cause. I still want a different QB and am 81% sure he sucks and should be playing for Northern Arizona, but heā€™s not as bad as I had convinced myself.

    * Consistency is the issue.
    Great:
    WTF?

    Decision making and pocket presence is suspect, when he makes the obvious choice, or the right decision on where to go or whether to take off it can look good.





    My theory is that starting from around the third or fourth quarter of the Oregon State game the yips got him and took an above average QB to Jeff Lockiean levels. Chuck Knoblauch.

    No he just sucks. He sucked against Stanford. Threw at least 3 ints that should have been housed for tds that were flat dropped.
    He sucks, yes. He also goes through stretches where he does enough to convince that there is potential. Itā€™s infinitely better than Buttmeister where you know thereā€™s nothing and there will never will be. The question is if he can be better or more consistent. I strongly doubt it. But not impossible.
  • IPukeOregonGrellowIPukeOregonGrellow Member Posts: 2,183
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment

    I may have promised to gouge my eyes out if I see Tyler Shough starting another game.
    Iā€™m on the record as saying I donā€™t want the offense to Shough anymore. Amazingly, after rewatching games, I donā€™t think heā€™s a lost cause. I still want a different QB and am 81% sure he sucks and should be playing for Northern Arizona, but heā€™s not as bad as I had convinced myself.

    * Consistency is the issue.
    Great:
    WTF?

    Decision making and pocket presence is suspect, when he makes the obvious choice, or the right decision on where to go or whether to take off it can look good.





    My theory is that starting from around the third or fourth quarter of the Oregon State game the yips got him and took an above average QB to Jeff Lockiean levels. Chuck Knoblauch.

    I'm not much into the amateur film guys giving their hot takes for clicks in hopes that some major journalmalism outfit turns them into the next Mel Kiper. I do trust ex-players. And thought Geoff Schwartz had the right take on Shough.



    3rd/4th quarter of the Boov game was also where Verdell entered the injury tent and never really came back. At that point the running game was left with Travis Dye, who's explosive but not built for a ton of carries, Cyrus Habibi-Likkio, who's built for carries but not explosive, and Sean Dollars, who someone needs to explain to me why he didn't get more carries against Cal and the Cloons. So you had an offense that was becoming more one dimensional with a quarterback defensive coordinators had figured out. It also needs to be noted the three best defenses Shough faced in the year were the Cloons, Cal and USC, probably in that order.

    For my hot take to impress the major jornamalism outfits, I think Shough can work. But you need to be done with George Moore and Malasala Aumavae-Laulu at right tackle. And that means you need one of Jaramillo or Jonah Tauanu'u to take that job from them...or possibly Kingsley Suamataia. And you need a healthy CJ Verdell. But you also need a second and even a third CJ Verdell. And maybe that's Dollars and Benson. But Byron Cardwell would give you some insurance. And you also need one of Franklin or Donte Thornton to deliver from day one.

    Or you need Ty Thompson to be an elite quarterback from day one. And really for all the moving parts, the paragraph above this one is more likely to play out.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,697
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes Photogenic
    He doesn't physically suck. He can play D1. But the pressure gets to him, and that makes him a shitty QB. I personally think the fumble at Beav traumatized him and he hasn't gotten over it. That, from my angle, was the breaking point for him. He has been a zombie ever since that one play.
  • RatherBeBrewingRatherBeBrewing Member Posts: 1,557
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment 5 Awesomes

    I may have promised to gouge my eyes out if I see Tyler Shough starting another game.
    Iā€™m on the record as saying I donā€™t want the offense to Shough anymore. Amazingly, after rewatching games, I donā€™t think heā€™s a lost cause. I still want a different QB and am 81% sure he sucks and should be playing for Northern Arizona, but heā€™s not as bad as I had convinced myself.

    * Consistency is the issue.
    Great:
    WTF?

    Decision making and pocket presence is suspect, when he makes the obvious choice, or the right decision on where to go or whether to take off it can look good.





    My theory is that starting from around the third or fourth quarter of the Oregon State game the yips got him and took an above average QB to Jeff Lockiean levels. Chuck Knoblauch.

    I'm not much into the amateur film guys giving their hot takes for clicks in hopes that some major journalmalism outfit turns them into the next Mel Kiper. I do trust ex-players. And thought Geoff Schwartz had the right take on Shough.



    3rd/4th quarter of the Boov game was also where Verdell entered the injury tent and never really came back. At that point the running game was left with Travis Dye, who's explosive but not built for a ton of carries, Cyrus Habibi-Likkio, who's built for carries but not explosive, and Sean Dollars, who someone needs to explain to me why he didn't get more carries against Cal and the Cloons. So you had an offense that was becoming more one dimensional with a quarterback defensive coordinators had figured out. It also needs to be noted the three best defenses Shough faced in the year were the Cloons, Cal and USC, probably in that order.

    For my hot take to impress the major jornamalism outfits, I think Shough can work. But you need to be done with George Moore and Malasala Aumavae-Laulu at right tackle. And that means you need one of Jaramillo or Jonah Tauanu'u to take that job from them...or possibly Kingsley Suamataia. And you need a healthy CJ Verdell. But you also need a second and even a third CJ Verdell. And maybe that's Dollars and Benson. But Byron Cardwell would give you some insurance. And you also need one of Franklin or Donte Thornton to deliver from day one.

    Or you need Ty Thompson to be an elite quarterback from day one. And really for all the moving parts, the paragraph above this one is more likely to play out.
    Are you the worldā€™s shortest man preparing to take on Christmas legend Jose Feliciano in an exhibition fencing match?
    Because you stand a really good chance of missing the point.

    Me: Tyler Shough is bad, but heā€™s not always bad. Maybe people were right about confidence issues because he has shown the capability to be okay.

    You: If the football team improves at every single offensive position he can be okay.

    Thatā€™s a pretty low threshold for hot takes if either of those qualifies.

    Too often CJ Verdell is like my Roomba; he repeatedly runs into obstacles and sucks.

    The offense didnā€™t become one dimensional because the roomba got hurt against Babushkaā€™s Portal Crew. Verdell had 12 carries for 18 yards and a housed fumble the week before against UCLA yet Shough managed 330 passing with 3 TDs with no turnovers and 30 rushing. Once Shough threw that pick in his own territory and Oregon State scored he hasnā€™t been the same. Shough made dumb decisions before that left points on the table, but since then itā€™s like he canā€™t throw it or run it the same way. No analysis needed, just donā€™t be Jose Feliciano and see how different it looks.

    At least we can agree that having better players around the QB would be good for the QB. Glad to know Iā€™m not alone on that island.
  • RatherBeBrewingRatherBeBrewing Member Posts: 1,557
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment 5 Awesomes

    He doesn't physically suck. He can play D1. But the pressure gets to him, and that makes him a shitty QB. I personally think the fumble at Beav traumatized him and he hasn't gotten over it. That, from my angle, was the breaking point for him. He has been a zombie ever since that one play.

    What I wanted to say, but this is better because less words.
  • IPukeOregonGrellowIPukeOregonGrellow Member Posts: 2,183
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment

    I may have promised to gouge my eyes out if I see Tyler Shough starting another game.
    Iā€™m on the record as saying I donā€™t want the offense to Shough anymore. Amazingly, after rewatching games, I donā€™t think heā€™s a lost cause. I still want a different QB and am 81% sure he sucks and should be playing for Northern Arizona, but heā€™s not as bad as I had convinced myself.

    * Consistency is the issue.
    Great:
    WTF?

    Decision making and pocket presence is suspect, when he makes the obvious choice, or the right decision on where to go or whether to take off it can look good.





    My theory is that starting from around the third or fourth quarter of the Oregon State game the yips got him and took an above average QB to Jeff Lockiean levels. Chuck Knoblauch.

    I'm not much into the amateur film guys giving their hot takes for clicks in hopes that some major journalmalism outfit turns them into the next Mel Kiper. I do trust ex-players. And thought Geoff Schwartz had the right take on Shough.



    3rd/4th quarter of the Boov game was also where Verdell entered the injury tent and never really came back. At that point the running game was left with Travis Dye, who's explosive but not built for a ton of carries, Cyrus Habibi-Likkio, who's built for carries but not explosive, and Sean Dollars, who someone needs to explain to me why he didn't get more carries against Cal and the Cloons. So you had an offense that was becoming more one dimensional with a quarterback defensive coordinators had figured out. It also needs to be noted the three best defenses Shough faced in the year were the Cloons, Cal and USC, probably in that order.

    For my hot take to impress the major jornamalism outfits, I think Shough can work. But you need to be done with George Moore and Malasala Aumavae-Laulu at right tackle. And that means you need one of Jaramillo or Jonah Tauanu'u to take that job from them...or possibly Kingsley Suamataia. And you need a healthy CJ Verdell. But you also need a second and even a third CJ Verdell. And maybe that's Dollars and Benson. But Byron Cardwell would give you some insurance. And you also need one of Franklin or Donte Thornton to deliver from day one.

    Or you need Ty Thompson to be an elite quarterback from day one. And really for all the moving parts, the paragraph above this one is more likely to play out.
    Are you the worldā€™s shortest man preparing to take on Christmas legend Jose Feliciano in an exhibition fencing match?
    Because you stand a really good chance of missing the point.

    Me: Tyler Shough is bad, but heā€™s not always bad. Maybe people were right about confidence issues because he has shown the capability to be okay.

    You: If the football team improves at every single offensive position he can be okay.

    Thatā€™s a pretty low threshold for hot takes if either of those qualifies.

    Too often CJ Verdell is like my Roomba; he repeatedly runs into obstacles and sucks.

    The offense didnā€™t become one dimensional because the roomba got hurt against Babushkaā€™s Portal Crew. Verdell had 12 carries for 18 yards and a housed fumble the week before against UCLA yet Shough managed 330 passing with 3 TDs with no turnovers and 30 rushing. Once Shough threw that pick in his own territory and Oregon State scored he hasnā€™t been the same. Shough made dumb decisions before that left points on the table, but since then itā€™s like he canā€™t throw it or run it the same way. No analysis needed, just donā€™t be Jose Feliciano and see how different it looks.

    At least we can agree that having better players around the QB would be good for the QB. Glad to know Iā€™m not alone on that island.
    Meh. UCLA sold out to stop the run by bringing people to the line. That opened up room to throw the ball where UCLA only had 5 or 6 guys in coverage. Every shitty JIFF you show where you say good UCLA brings pressure with 5 or more. Every one where you say bad they're bringing four or less.

    Every pick Shough throws from Oregon State on is essentially Bill Murray in Groundhog's Day. Rush four/drop seven in zone. Throw to a bracketed receiver that he doesn't have the arm strength to fit into a tight window. Very little pressure. When there is, it's because George Moore is a JAG.

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    What Schwartz says is mostly true. Teams started not pressuring him and saying "Go ahead, beat us with your arm."" The lack of run game dug him some deep holes where defenses could hunker down and play to his weaknesses. He's not just going to hit the gym and develop a cannon. He can still be a workable starter. But he needs playmakers around him.

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