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Men's Hoops - Game #1 vs Baylor

TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
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edited November 2020 in Payton's Place
Let's be realistic here ... expectations for this team aren't high and Baylor's really good. Losing to Baylor is to be expected. Losing by even 20 wouldn't be a huge shocker.

Losing by 34? Yikes ... pretty ugly.

You want ugly though ... how about getting your ass handed to you 48 to 15 on the glass ... and even more ugly is seeing Baylor have more offensive rebounds (20) than you have total rebounds (15).

Talent deficits are one thing ... I can understand that.

But getting your ass kicked on the glass is pure effort or lack thereof ...

That's a fucking joke Hop ... you should be flat out embarrassed by the lack of effort by your team in Game #1 of the year against the #2 team in the country.

Comments

  • LebamDawgLebamDawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,510
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    nice bored selection - we be dooging here
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
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    LebamDawg said:

    nice bored selection - we be dooging here

    Realized it after I posted it ... I'm sure it will get moved at some point
  • BleachedAnusDawgBleachedAnusDawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,384
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    Founders Club
    Are they still playing the fucktarded zone?
  • Fire_Marshall_BillFire_Marshall_Bill Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 22,713
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    Founders Club
    48 to 15 did it.

    Add Bill to the Fire Hopkins bandwagon.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
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    Hopkins sucks but I want him to stay around longer so Basnight will cry more.

    Funniest thing I read all day
  • huskyhooliganhuskyhooligan Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 5,041
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-BuDPhX7Q

    I don't think UW has posted any highlights.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes 5 Fuck Offs
    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.
  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,272
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment Combo Breaker
    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
  • backthepackbackthepack Member Posts: 19,785
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes Combo Breaker 5 Awesomes
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes 5 Fuck Offs

    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
    One of the big weaknesses to a zone is the inability to box out and rebound ... which obviously showed in the numbers yesterday.

    18-19 footers are obviously inefficient but those aren't the shots that are being given up. Chasing people off the line results in either side step 3's (which is honesty just a rhythm shot for a good shooter) or relocating into 10-15 footers that are effectively free throws or above for good shooters.

    This is why I've always said that zones are easy to bust up for good offensive players and shooters because all of the shots that you get off the zone if you get it scrambling are effectively warm up jumpers in the gym.

    Not trying to bag on Hop too much because this style of defense has had success in the past not only at UW but obviously Syracuse, but the game is shifting and Syracuse has struggled to have huge success lately (comparatively speaking). Running this kind of defense successfully has usually required long athletes that may or may not be strong offensive players. Today's game you can't be successful without the ability to score the ball. Hop's made some changes to bring in more shooters but I'm also not sure that the players he's brought in are players that are well suited to play the defense he wants to play.
  • Edwin_BambinoEdwin_Bambino Member Posts: 2,942
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    edited November 2020
    Tequilla said:

    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
    One of the big weaknesses to a zone is the inability to box out and rebound ... which obviously showed in the numbers yesterday.

    18-19 footers are obviously inefficient but those aren't the shots that are being given up. Chasing people off the line results in either side step 3's (which is honesty just a rhythm shot for a good shooter) or relocating into 10-15 footers that are effectively free throws or above for good shooters.

    This is why I've always said that zones are easy to bust up for good offensive players and shooters because all of the shots that you get off the zone if you get it scrambling are effectively warm up jumpers in the gym.

    Not trying to bag on Hop too much because this style of defense has had success in the past not only at UW but obviously Syracuse, but the game is shifting and Syracuse has struggled to have huge success lately (comparatively speaking). Running this kind of defense successfully has usually required long athletes that may or may not be strong offensive players. Today's game you can't be successful without the ability to score the ball. Hop's made some changes to bring in more shooters but I'm also not sure that the players he's brought in are players that are well suited to play the defense he wants to play.
    The Zone being run religiously by Hopkins and Boheim no matter who they play seems like the college basketball equivalent to Leach sticking with air raid no matter the opponent. Not a fan.

    Also I didn’t watch the game but my brother pirated a steam and said the offense looked just as lost as always. I get it it’s against the #2 team in the country but still.
  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,272
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment Combo Breaker
    edited November 2020
    Tequilla said:

    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
    One of the big weaknesses to a zone is the inability to box out and rebound ... which obviously showed in the numbers yesterday.

    18-19 footers are obviously inefficient but those aren't the shots that are being given up. Chasing people off the line results in either side step 3's (which is honesty just a rhythm shot for a good shooter) or relocating into 10-15 footers that are effectively free throws or above for good shooters.

    This is why I've always said that zones are easy to bust up for good offensive players and shooters because all of the shots that you get off the zone if you get it scrambling are effectively warm up jumpers in the gym.

    Not trying to bag on Hop too much because this style of defense has had success in the past not only at UW but obviously Syracuse, but the game is shifting and Syracuse has struggled to have huge success lately (comparatively speaking). Running this kind of defense successfully has usually required long athletes that may or may not be strong offensive players. Today's game you can't be successful without the ability to score the ball. Hop's made some changes to bring in more shooters but I'm also not sure that the players he's brought in are players that are well suited to play the defense he wants to play.
    Altman tends to run a lot of matchup zone, and I've always been impressed with Oregon's defense. It's zone but with man to man principles. Does Hop do a matchup zone or is his just a base 2-3 or something similar? I didn't watch the Baylor game, I just saw the box score.
  • Edwin_BambinoEdwin_Bambino Member Posts: 2,942
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    Tequilla said:

    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
    One of the big weaknesses to a zone is the inability to box out and rebound ... which obviously showed in the numbers yesterday.

    18-19 footers are obviously inefficient but those aren't the shots that are being given up. Chasing people off the line results in either side step 3's (which is honesty just a rhythm shot for a good shooter) or relocating into 10-15 footers that are effectively free throws or above for good shooters.

    This is why I've always said that zones are easy to bust up for good offensive players and shooters because all of the shots that you get off the zone if you get it scrambling are effectively warm up jumpers in the gym.

    Not trying to bag on Hop too much because this style of defense has had success in the past not only at UW but obviously Syracuse, but the game is shifting and Syracuse has struggled to have huge success lately (comparatively speaking). Running this kind of defense successfully has usually required long athletes that may or may not be strong offensive players. Today's game you can't be successful without the ability to score the ball. Hop's made some changes to bring in more shooters but I'm also not sure that the players he's brought in are players that are well suited to play the defense he wants to play.
    Altman tends to run a lot of matchup zone, and I've always been impressed with Oregon's defense. It's zone but with man to man principles. Does Hop do a matchup zone or is his just a base 2-3 or something similar? I didn't watch the Baylor game, I just saw the box score.
    Base 2-3 pretty much always
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes 5 Fuck Offs

    Tequilla said:

    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
    One of the big weaknesses to a zone is the inability to box out and rebound ... which obviously showed in the numbers yesterday.

    18-19 footers are obviously inefficient but those aren't the shots that are being given up. Chasing people off the line results in either side step 3's (which is honesty just a rhythm shot for a good shooter) or relocating into 10-15 footers that are effectively free throws or above for good shooters.

    This is why I've always said that zones are easy to bust up for good offensive players and shooters because all of the shots that you get off the zone if you get it scrambling are effectively warm up jumpers in the gym.

    Not trying to bag on Hop too much because this style of defense has had success in the past not only at UW but obviously Syracuse, but the game is shifting and Syracuse has struggled to have huge success lately (comparatively speaking). Running this kind of defense successfully has usually required long athletes that may or may not be strong offensive players. Today's game you can't be successful without the ability to score the ball. Hop's made some changes to bring in more shooters but I'm also not sure that the players he's brought in are players that are well suited to play the defense he wants to play.
    The Zone being run religiously by Hopkins and Boheim no matter who they play seems like the college basketball equivalent to Leach sticking with air raid no matter the opponent. Not a fan.

    Also I didn’t watch the game but my brother pirated a steam and said the offense looked just as lost as always. I get it it’s against the #2 team in the country but still.
    Really good analogy comparing to Leach's system ... definitely food for thought at minimum
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes 5 Fuck Offs

    Tequilla said:

    Tequilla said:

    1) Some really lazy plays - Bey in the corner watching Baylor hustle was pretty bad

    2) Zone defensive strategies really only work well against teams that can't shoot and/or make poor decisions when it comes to passing ... with shooting becoming more en vogue as a skill set, you see guys shooting more uncontested 25-30 footers that are effectively wide open as the zone isn't designed to stretch that far. If the zone does stretch that far it effectively falls apart behind it.

    3) One thing I noticed last year and showed up in the highlights a few times is that one of the adjustments that Hop has made with the zones to the way the modern game is played with 3's and shooters is to extend to running people off the 3 point line and giving up the runners and mid-range shot that the Rockets have famously deprioritized in the game. Problem is that a lot of teams/players are starting to recognize the error in that logic and you're seeing more and more players embracing the relatively easy shots that come between the arc and the basket where the bigs really don't want to vacate.

    Big picture, zones are really more momentum changing strategies at this point against teams/units that struggle to beat those types of defenses. As players become better and better shooters though you can't do anything other than really stay in their hip and limit their air space. A good shooter doesn't care if you give him an open 15 footer, 20 footer, 25 footer, or 30 footer ... if they know that they are going to be getting those shots they are going to be positioned to make them.

    I wouldn't mind giving up 18-20 foot open jumps shots all game long. Those shots tend to be the least efficient in today's game. It becomes a problem though, when you are out rebounded 50-19. It doesn't matter how efficient the opposing shots are at that point.
    One of the big weaknesses to a zone is the inability to box out and rebound ... which obviously showed in the numbers yesterday.

    18-19 footers are obviously inefficient but those aren't the shots that are being given up. Chasing people off the line results in either side step 3's (which is honesty just a rhythm shot for a good shooter) or relocating into 10-15 footers that are effectively free throws or above for good shooters.

    This is why I've always said that zones are easy to bust up for good offensive players and shooters because all of the shots that you get off the zone if you get it scrambling are effectively warm up jumpers in the gym.

    Not trying to bag on Hop too much because this style of defense has had success in the past not only at UW but obviously Syracuse, but the game is shifting and Syracuse has struggled to have huge success lately (comparatively speaking). Running this kind of defense successfully has usually required long athletes that may or may not be strong offensive players. Today's game you can't be successful without the ability to score the ball. Hop's made some changes to bring in more shooters but I'm also not sure that the players he's brought in are players that are well suited to play the defense he wants to play.
    Altman tends to run a lot of matchup zone, and I've always been impressed with Oregon's defense. It's zone but with man to man principles. Does Hop do a matchup zone or is his just a base 2-3 or something similar? I didn't watch the Baylor game, I just saw the box score.
    Matchup zones I don't have a huge problem with as it's effectively a constantly switching man defense keeping your bigs on the interior ... it requires a lot of communication but if run well can be very effective.

    Hop's 2-3 has largely morphed into more of a 4 defending the 3 point line and a big defending the middle ... there's a lot of holes and gaps in the zone at this point.
  • PineapplePiratePineapplePirate Member Posts: 4,012
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment
    We had that game in the bag and the PAC12 refs fucked us!
  • LebamDawgLebamDawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,510
    5 Up Votes First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment
    Swaye's Wigwam
    Husky BB is the reverse from a few years ago

    Good news Football is still going
    Bad News BB season is here
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