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You wanna take the gloves off, Race?
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I haven't wanted to read these boards after a game in what seems forever. This is some high level shit being put down...love it!1to392831weretaken said:
I know we're not allowed to talk about this, but I don't agree that the Beav game was artificially close. I think UW had some homefield cooking from the stripes that swung up to 14 points. I guess it's glass half empty/glass half full perspective, but some came away from the Beavis game thinking the Beavs were lucky to keep it artificially close due to the 7 point gift from a freshman snapper, and I came away thinking the Huskies were lucky they got their first 7 points after a bogus PI call, the Wefs have no idea what roughing the kicker is, and OSU didn't score from inside the 10 (regardless of whether you feel the spots on 3rd and 4th were terrible). Take last night's officials, plug them in to that week 1 game, and we're talking about a team that's 2-1 and Beavs are first in the north.dnc said:There’s some good stuff here but big disagree with two things you said:
1. This game felt like the OS game. UW dominated the Beav game and it was artificially close. That game infuriated me because we let them hang around. This game we got waxed in the first half then big dicked our way through the second. The play calling in the red zone was equally bad but otherwise pretty different games other than close scores.
2. Whittingham abandoning the run is the reason we came back.
Utah second half drives:
3 runs, pass on third and 6, picked
2 passes, five runs, including four straight to lose the ball on downs.
3 passes, 4 runs including a lost fumble
3 passes, 3 runs, punt on fourth and one
2 yard run, sack, sack, punt.
Then the final drive with 30 seconds left.
The only drives you could argue they were too pass heavy were the last two before the final one but by that point they had gotten nowhere with the run first game.
The UW defense shut their run game down in the second half and won this game. Whittington didn’t lose it.
I think it's fair to disagree with all of the above and see the stats-disparity bright side of that game, but that's not important to the main point anyway, that being that I wasn't comparing the specifics of the OSU game to the Utah game. Of course both games were very different, but I was saying--to me--they felt the same because both games involved getting gashed on the ground the whole first half, uninspired play-calling for at least a half, and, overall, just an infuriating lack of ability to take superior talent and dominate with it. In one game it was, "WHY IS THIS CLOSE!?" and the other it was, "WHY ARE THEY LOSING!?" but the frustration was the same.
As for the second point, I never claimed Whittingham abandoned the run in the second half. I said he got away from the dynamic running attack that was working. In the first half, the play-calling was a thing of beauty. A great mix of fly sweep and quick sideline passes to gas the DL and then hammering up the middle with inside zone. I don't think Utah ran a perimeter run in the first half that went for less than 8 yards. That side to side action really opened up the middle. Something I noticed is that certain players in the front seven played nearly the whole game, which is unusual for Kwiatkowski, but the loss of Bowman probably forced it. ZTF played nearly the entire game. Ulo played nearly the entire game (I believe Tuputala got either one or two series). Sirmon played nearly the entire game. The interior rotated, but not as much as usual.
The other thing Whittingham changed was getting conservative and not going for it on 4th and short on Washington's side of the field. Their first 7 points came after Whitt nutted up and went for it on 4th and 4 from Washington's 45 or something. Easy 7 yards, first down. We're going to have to ask advanced stats expert @backthepack, but that's probably always the statistically smart move. In the second half, he passed up more than one opportunity to make that same choice, with even fewer yards to gain, and paid for it, I believe. The one time they went for it on 4th in the second half, he stupidly condensed the formation and tried big-dicking a team with more talent.
I almost made and posted a .gif of the other short TD run, in which Tuputala blows up his blocker, maintains inside leverage and absorbs the running back short of the goal line but he has no help to keep the running back out, as Sirmon gets destroyed so badly by the tight end that he ends up shielding Turner from the play and Turner just stands there instead of trying to do something about it, but I didn't want to pile on.Swaye said:Chinned because of you noticing that Asa play. That infuriated me.
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@1to392831weretaken my take on this season is we? are lucky to be playing at all. Normally, I would not be in the “Everyone Gets a Trophy” camp, but between COVID and Larry Scott, they are actually playing real games, and I just want to see growth in the team and feel some doogness. Ty Jones is flawed. Sirmon is flawed. DylMo plays like a freshman QB. RBs are decidedly average at best. Puka is currently catching more than he drops. And, they’ve played three shit teams. However, they also beat those 3 shit teams which is new. And... they were down 0-21 against one of them (down 21 for a variety of reasons) but somehow managed to arch their backs and WIN!!!! It’s been 4 seasons since they’ve had any swagger. They have one more shit team to play before they play Oregon. Enjoy.
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Going for it on the opponent’s side if it’s less than 7ish yards is always good. If you get it you significantly increase your win probability. That was a cowardly punt1to392831weretaken said:
I know we're not allowed to talk about this, but I don't agree that the Beav game was artificially close. I think UW had some homefield cooking from the stripes that swung up to 14 points. I guess it's glass half empty/glass half full perspective, but some came away from the Beavis game thinking the Beavs were lucky to keep it artificially close due to the 7 point gift from a freshman snapper, and I came away thinking the Huskies were lucky they got their first 7 points after a bogus PI call, the Wefs have no idea what roughing the kicker is, and OSU didn't score from inside the 10 (regardless of whether you feel the spots on 3rd and 4th were terrible). Take last night's officials, plug them in to that week 1 game, and we're talking about a team that's 2-1 and Beavs are first in the north.dnc said:There’s some good stuff here but big disagree with two things you said:
1. This game felt like the OS game. UW dominated the Beav game and it was artificially close. That game infuriated me because we let them hang around. This game we got waxed in the first half then big dicked our way through the second. The play calling in the red zone was equally bad but otherwise pretty different games other than close scores.
2. Whittingham abandoning the run is the reason we came back.
Utah second half drives:
3 runs, pass on third and 6, picked
2 passes, five runs, including four straight to lose the ball on downs.
3 passes, 4 runs including a lost fumble
3 passes, 3 runs, punt on fourth and one
2 yard run, sack, sack, punt.
Then the final drive with 30 seconds left.
The only drives you could argue they were too pass heavy were the last two before the final one but by that point they had gotten nowhere with the run first game.
The UW defense shut their run game down in the second half and won this game. Whittington didn’t lose it.
I think it's fair to disagree with all of the above and see the stats-disparity bright side of that game, but that's not important to the main point anyway, that being that I wasn't comparing the specifics of the OSU game to the Utah game. Of course both games were very different, but I was saying--to me--they felt the same because both games involved getting gashed on the ground the whole first half, uninspired play-calling for at least a half, and, overall, just an infuriating lack of ability to take superior talent and dominate with it. In one game it was, "WHY IS THIS CLOSE!?" and the other it was, "WHY ARE THEY LOSING!?" but the frustration was the same.
As for the second point, I never claimed Whittingham abandoned the run in the second half. I said he got away from the dynamic running attack that was working. In the first half, the play-calling was a thing of beauty. A great mix of fly sweep and quick sideline passes to gas the DL and then hammering up the middle with inside zone. I don't think Utah ran a perimeter run in the first half that went for less than 8 yards. That side to side action really opened up the middle. Something I noticed is that certain players in the front seven played nearly the whole game, which is unusual for Kwiatkowski, but the loss of Bowman probably forced it. ZTF played nearly the entire game. Ulo played nearly the entire game (I believe Tuputala got either one or two series). Sirmon played nearly the entire game. The interior rotated, but not as much as usual.
The other thing Whittingham changed was getting conservative and not going for it on 4th and short on Washington's side of the field. Their first 7 points came after Whitt nutted up and went for it on 4th and 4 from Washington's 45 or something. Easy 7 yards, first down. We're going to have to ask advanced stats expert @backthepack, but that's probably always the statistically smart move. In the second half, he passed up more than one opportunity to make that same choice, with even fewer yards to gain, and paid for it, I believe. The one time they went for it on 4th in the second half, he stupidly condensed the formation and tried big-dicking a team with more talent.
I almost made and posted a .gif of the other short TD run, in which Tuputala blows up his blocker, maintains inside leverage and absorbs the running back short of the goal line but he has no help to keep the running back out, as Sirmon gets destroyed so badly by the tight end that he ends up shielding Turner from the play and Turner just stands there instead of trying to do something about it, but I didn't want to pile on.Swaye said:Chinned because of you noticing that Asa play. That infuriated me.
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Cam Will just got back from injury late last week. LIPO. He’s a stud.1to392831weretaken said:
During the recruiting fiasco, when it was looking like he had committed to ND and therefore was fair game for shit talking, I mentioned this concern and remember getting a lot of shit for it. His high school film looked sooooo soft. How are you a gigantic safety in high school and don't have a single highlight of a hard hit? I mentioned liking the pickup for potential, but had concerns whether he could hack it at this level if he's shying away from contact in high school. By contrast, I LOVED Cameron Williams' film. He's not 6'4", but he was blowing people the fuck up all over his reel. That's a football player.RoadDawg55 said:I don’t notice Asa Turner in coverage so I think he’s doing well there. He’s so fucking soft tho. He was last year too. We expected a big, physical safety. He’s far from that. Not saying he’s bad, but I’m not going to Doog out over a safety that adverse to contact.
Fast forward, and neither are exactly painting themselves in glory at the moment. Williams wants to take somebody's head off, he just keeps missing and giving up long runs for first downs, and Turner's playing no different at this level than he did in his high school film. I'd rather have a weak tackle than no tackle at all, so TBSers are still winning this round, but I really wish I could put Williams into Turners body...
I don't like to bash the players, but I don't mind in this case because they're both still young and show a ton of potential. I think they'll both be great in this system down the road, but I need to see Williams get a little bigger and more in control with his tackling, and I need to see Turner start making use of that big body and intimidating receivers and running backs. At this point, there's no advantage to Turner over, say, Myles Bryant up near the LOS in that nickel if Turner isn't going to play any bigger than Bryant did (Bryant beat blocks and made tackles and was a surprisingly good "linebacker" at his size). -
Did not know this. Good chit.backthepack said:
Cam Will just got back from injury late last week. LIPO. He’s a stud.1to392831weretaken said:
During the recruiting fiasco, when it was looking like he had committed to ND and therefore was fair game for shit talking, I mentioned this concern and remember getting a lot of shit for it. His high school film looked sooooo soft. How are you a gigantic safety in high school and don't have a single highlight of a hard hit? I mentioned liking the pickup for potential, but had concerns whether he could hack it at this level if he's shying away from contact in high school. By contrast, I LOVED Cameron Williams' film. He's not 6'4", but he was blowing people the fuck up all over his reel. That's a football player.RoadDawg55 said:I don’t notice Asa Turner in coverage so I think he’s doing well there. He’s so fucking soft tho. He was last year too. We expected a big, physical safety. He’s far from that. Not saying he’s bad, but I’m not going to Doog out over a safety that adverse to contact.
Fast forward, and neither are exactly painting themselves in glory at the moment. Williams wants to take somebody's head off, he just keeps missing and giving up long runs for first downs, and Turner's playing no different at this level than he did in his high school film. I'd rather have a weak tackle than no tackle at all, so TBSers are still winning this round, but I really wish I could put Williams into Turners body...
I don't like to bash the players, but I don't mind in this case because they're both still young and show a ton of potential. I think they'll both be great in this system down the road, but I need to see Williams get a little bigger and more in control with his tackling, and I need to see Turner start making use of that big body and intimidating receivers and running backs. At this point, there's no advantage to Turner over, say, Myles Bryant up near the LOS in that nickel if Turner isn't going to play any bigger than Bryant did (Bryant beat blocks and made tackles and was a surprisingly good "linebacker" at his size). -
New coach, new OC, RS Frosh QB...It's still a work in progress.
Bottom line a lot of people are figuring out how to do their jobs and sometimes sucking at it.
UW obviously expected a blow out and panicked when DylMo threw a pick and the Utah QB didn't suck.
Glad they had the balls to close it out though, you only learn that one way. -
1to392831weretaken: I love you. All points between 2 and 3 should be mandatory reading by every Husky Fan and Offensive Coach on staff including Jimmy.
You hit the nail on head of defenses willing to losing individual battles (giving up chunk plays if we can hit it) 2-3 times a game if they can win war of stuffing us on Defense with 8 in the box, shortening game, and getting it to 4th quarter with inferior talent. There are 4 coaches that will take that deal in a millisecond (Herm/Wilcox/Smith) including Shaw who we may play this week. Add in Oregon who is recruiting at a level that will allow them to stay in it with us even though they aren't great developers, but can do the same thing only get there with a little different formula (ditto Clay at SC)
And Utah who will always do this to us as long as Kyle W. is there and that's 4 of 5 teams in North and top 2 contenders in South.
I want to run it as much as anyone, but the stubborn continual blast plays for 2 yards between the guards vs. 8 in the box putting us behind the sticks is not a winning formula long term.
And I won't even get into that philosophy working against teams like we played in the last 3 NY6 Bowl Games.
Write as much of that analysis as you want. Good Stuff
