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You wanna take the gloves off, Race?
1to392831weretaken
Member Posts: 7,696
Shit. I was 3000 words into a graduate thesis about my spoon-whacked doog boner when I realized nobody wants that shit, so I'll spare you and skip straight to the observations/questions I have now that this season is three games down and... somewhere between none and three games to go (@Logistics):
1.) Did I seriously go from the team's biggest doog (I'm the guy who sticks up for Browning, ferchrissake!) to the only one shaking and about to vomit over the way this team has performed in two out the three games when adjusting for opponent and circumstances? Everyone here seems to be pretty happy after that abortion, but I'm now a miserable cunt.
2.) At some point, you can either throw downfield or you can't. If you can't throw downfield, you do not have a complete game and will not win against a good team. It's 2019/2018 all over again. Whittingham didn't believe the Huskies could throw downfield and showed zero respect for it from the first snap. I'd say he was proven right. In exchange for almost completely shutting down Washington's running game (3.4 per) and forcing chaos underneath that led to two of Morris's passes hitting defenders in the chest (not even counting the hail Mary), he was punished with only one beautifully thrown deep fade that Bynum totally misplayed, one wheel to Bynum that would have been six were it not underthrown (still led to a score), and one horribly underthrown ball to Ty Jones that was intercepted. There's a chicken/egg question here: If the other team is leaving receivers wide open over the top, daring you to throw down there, and you only try it once in the first half and three times all game, opting instead to beat your head against a stacked box and throw into underneath coverage, are the coaches stupid or do the coaches know the players can't get it done? It's either one or the other. Either way, this offense is operating with one hand tied behind its back out of hubris, stupidity, or lack of talent.
2.1) Who decided that the time to show the defense that your offense does more than run off tackle until 3rd and long and then throw short of the sticks (when is UW going to trademark that?...) isn't the very first drive but rather sometime in the second half? Two games out of three that the opponent begged to play a game in a phone booth and Lake/JonDon said, "Cool!"
2.2) Is this now two out of three games in which it's taken an entire half to realize that there's a future NFL tight end on the roster and actually target him? Maddening.
3.) Offensive personnel was strange in this game. Either Dick Newton didn't play in this game, or he did and got zero carries. Zero targets to receivers not named Jones, Bynum, Nacua. What the fuck? I don't understand how they can't find receivers in a group with that collective pedigree who can make plays downfield. It just reeks of chincompetence.
Alright, forget this numbered list. Moving to defense, this is less observational and more Festivus airing of the grievances. I want everyone to take a look at this shit:
This was the play that pissed me off more than any other in the game. There is some debate around Asa Turner on these boards, with some seeing he's a great athlete and others seeing that he's soft. He's both. You want to see the difference between an athlete and a football player, look no further than the above .gif and see the difference between Turner and Ulofoshio. Was that 6'4" huge quarterback probably going to get into the end zone either way? Sure he was with all that space and momentum. What kind of strong safety just stands there and watches it happen without even attempting to get a hit in to make him pay for it? It's even more pronounced when you watch Ulofoshio have to run all the way around Turner to do exactly that! I'd rather him miss a tackle trying to actually do something than just stand there getting in the way of a player who actually wants to fuck up the quarterback.
Next under the Festivus pole are those who missed open tackles that would have stopped a drive:
Taylor
Bronson
Cameron Williams
Sirmon
Sirmon
Sirmon
To all the TBS-shlurping Bowman haters, would have been nice to have him this game, huh? I think so.
Zero points the second half, mostly because Whittingham is even stupider than our offensive coaches and got away from the first half dynamic running game, so that's nice, but it still drives me crazy sometimes to watch that base nickel line up against two and three tight end sets and get their shit pushed. They do know subbing allowed, right? It's especially hard to watch them try to defend the run out of that base when they're not getting adequate run support from these extra secondary players that are on the field. If they're going to stay in that nickel in obvious run scenarios, somebody *cough*Turner*cough* better start playing like a linebacker.
All in all, this team has won two games because Trent McDuffie, Elijah Molden (still say he was shaky in run defense week 1), ZTF, Ulofoshio, and Cade Otton would all be top-3 players on any of the three opposing teams so far--if not the very best player. That kind of advantage should be overwhelming, yet there have been two squeakers. That's scheme. That's coaching. A year removed from Petersen, and it's still just too damned "hard." There have been three games now, and two of the three have had a very similar feel. A very 2018 ASU feel, yet pulling out the win. So far, it sure look to me like the Arizona game was the outlier.
Patting myself on the back for editing this down...
1.) Did I seriously go from the team's biggest doog (I'm the guy who sticks up for Browning, ferchrissake!) to the only one shaking and about to vomit over the way this team has performed in two out the three games when adjusting for opponent and circumstances? Everyone here seems to be pretty happy after that abortion, but I'm now a miserable cunt.
2.) At some point, you can either throw downfield or you can't. If you can't throw downfield, you do not have a complete game and will not win against a good team. It's 2019/2018 all over again. Whittingham didn't believe the Huskies could throw downfield and showed zero respect for it from the first snap. I'd say he was proven right. In exchange for almost completely shutting down Washington's running game (3.4 per) and forcing chaos underneath that led to two of Morris's passes hitting defenders in the chest (not even counting the hail Mary), he was punished with only one beautifully thrown deep fade that Bynum totally misplayed, one wheel to Bynum that would have been six were it not underthrown (still led to a score), and one horribly underthrown ball to Ty Jones that was intercepted. There's a chicken/egg question here: If the other team is leaving receivers wide open over the top, daring you to throw down there, and you only try it once in the first half and three times all game, opting instead to beat your head against a stacked box and throw into underneath coverage, are the coaches stupid or do the coaches know the players can't get it done? It's either one or the other. Either way, this offense is operating with one hand tied behind its back out of hubris, stupidity, or lack of talent.
2.1) Who decided that the time to show the defense that your offense does more than run off tackle until 3rd and long and then throw short of the sticks (when is UW going to trademark that?...) isn't the very first drive but rather sometime in the second half? Two games out of three that the opponent begged to play a game in a phone booth and Lake/JonDon said, "Cool!"
2.2) Is this now two out of three games in which it's taken an entire half to realize that there's a future NFL tight end on the roster and actually target him? Maddening.
3.) Offensive personnel was strange in this game. Either Dick Newton didn't play in this game, or he did and got zero carries. Zero targets to receivers not named Jones, Bynum, Nacua. What the fuck? I don't understand how they can't find receivers in a group with that collective pedigree who can make plays downfield. It just reeks of chincompetence.
Alright, forget this numbered list. Moving to defense, this is less observational and more Festivus airing of the grievances. I want everyone to take a look at this shit:
This was the play that pissed me off more than any other in the game. There is some debate around Asa Turner on these boards, with some seeing he's a great athlete and others seeing that he's soft. He's both. You want to see the difference between an athlete and a football player, look no further than the above .gif and see the difference between Turner and Ulofoshio. Was that 6'4" huge quarterback probably going to get into the end zone either way? Sure he was with all that space and momentum. What kind of strong safety just stands there and watches it happen without even attempting to get a hit in to make him pay for it? It's even more pronounced when you watch Ulofoshio have to run all the way around Turner to do exactly that! I'd rather him miss a tackle trying to actually do something than just stand there getting in the way of a player who actually wants to fuck up the quarterback.
Next under the Festivus pole are those who missed open tackles that would have stopped a drive:
Taylor
Bronson
Cameron Williams
Sirmon
Sirmon
Sirmon
To all the TBS-shlurping Bowman haters, would have been nice to have him this game, huh? I think so.
Zero points the second half, mostly because Whittingham is even stupider than our offensive coaches and got away from the first half dynamic running game, so that's nice, but it still drives me crazy sometimes to watch that base nickel line up against two and three tight end sets and get their shit pushed. They do know subbing allowed, right? It's especially hard to watch them try to defend the run out of that base when they're not getting adequate run support from these extra secondary players that are on the field. If they're going to stay in that nickel in obvious run scenarios, somebody *cough*Turner*cough* better start playing like a linebacker.
All in all, this team has won two games because Trent McDuffie, Elijah Molden (still say he was shaky in run defense week 1), ZTF, Ulofoshio, and Cade Otton would all be top-3 players on any of the three opposing teams so far--if not the very best player. That kind of advantage should be overwhelming, yet there have been two squeakers. That's scheme. That's coaching. A year removed from Petersen, and it's still just too damned "hard." There have been three games now, and two of the three have had a very similar feel. A very 2018 ASU feel, yet pulling out the win. So far, it sure look to me like the Arizona game was the outlier.
Patting myself on the back for editing this down...
Comments
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TL; DR
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Good poast but jfc go to sleep dude
I honestly think it’s a schematic thing that we go nickel/dime to entice teams to run early. We trust our front seven to do enough. Get them in 3rd and medium+ because that’s where turnovers happen. I will always trust K. John Don and his early down runs? Gtfo. -
The Oregon State game would have been a blowout if not for 2 retarded teams plays. LIPO. Not worried unless they continue to beat their head against the wall and go r-r-p.
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Chinned because of you noticing that Asa play. That infuriated me.
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There’s some good stuff here but big disagree with two things you said:
1. This game felt like the OS game. UW dominated the Beav game and it was artificially close. That game infuriated me because we let them hang around. This game we got waxed in the first half then big dicked our way through the second. The play calling in the red zone was equally bad but otherwise pretty different games other than close scores.
2. Whittingham abandoning the run is the reason we came back.
Utah second half drives:
3 runs, pass on third and 6, picked
2 passes, five runs, including four straight to lose the ball on downs.
3 passes, 4 runs including a lost fumble
3 passes, 3 runs, punt on fourth and one
2 yard run, sack, sack, punt.
Then the final drive with 30 seconds left.
The only drives you could argue they were too pass heavy were the last two before the final one but by that point they had gotten nowhere with the run first game.
The UW defense shut their run game down in the second half and won this game. Whittington didn’t lose it. -
I don’t notice Asa Turner in coverage so I think he’s doing well there. He’s so fucking soft tho. He was last year too. We expected a big, physical safety. He’s far from that. Not saying he’s bad, but I’m not going to Doog out over a safety that adverse to contact.
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I know we're not allowed to talk about this, but I don't agree that the Beav game was artificially close. I think UW had some homefield cooking from the stripes that swung up to 14 points. I guess it's glass half empty/glass half full perspective, but some came away from the Beavis game thinking the Beavs were lucky to keep it artificially close due to the 7 point gift from a freshman snapper, and I came away thinking the Huskies were lucky they got their first 7 points after a bogus PI call, the Wefs have no idea what roughing the kicker is, and OSU didn't score from inside the 10 (regardless of whether you feel the spots on 3rd and 4th were terrible). Take last night's officials, plug them in to that week 1 game, and we're talking about a team that's 2-1 and Beavs are first in the north.dnc said:There’s some good stuff here but big disagree with two things you said:
1. This game felt like the OS game. UW dominated the Beav game and it was artificially close. That game infuriated me because we let them hang around. This game we got waxed in the first half then big dicked our way through the second. The play calling in the red zone was equally bad but otherwise pretty different games other than close scores.
2. Whittingham abandoning the run is the reason we came back.
Utah second half drives:
3 runs, pass on third and 6, picked
2 passes, five runs, including four straight to lose the ball on downs.
3 passes, 4 runs including a lost fumble
3 passes, 3 runs, punt on fourth and one
2 yard run, sack, sack, punt.
Then the final drive with 30 seconds left.
The only drives you could argue they were too pass heavy were the last two before the final one but by that point they had gotten nowhere with the run first game.
The UW defense shut their run game down in the second half and won this game. Whittington didn’t lose it.
I think it's fair to disagree with all of the above and see the stats-disparity bright side of that game, but that's not important to the main point anyway, that being that I wasn't comparing the specifics of the OSU game to the Utah game. Of course both games were very different, but I was saying--to me--they felt the same because both games involved getting gashed on the ground the whole first half, uninspired play-calling for at least a half, and, overall, just an infuriating lack of ability to take superior talent and dominate with it. In one game it was, "WHY IS THIS CLOSE!?" and the other it was, "WHY ARE THEY LOSING!?" but the frustration was the same.
As for the second point, I never claimed Whittingham abandoned the run in the second half. I said he got away from the dynamic running attack that was working. In the first half, the play-calling was a thing of beauty. A great mix of fly sweep and quick sideline passes to gas the DL and then hammering up the middle with inside zone. I don't think Utah ran a perimeter run in the first half that went for less than 8 yards. That side to side action really opened up the middle. Something I noticed is that certain players in the front seven played nearly the whole game, which is unusual for Kwiatkowski, but the loss of Bowman probably forced it. ZTF played nearly the entire game. Ulo played nearly the entire game (I believe Tuputala got either one or two series). Sirmon played nearly the entire game. The interior rotated, but not as much as usual.
The other thing Whittingham changed was getting conservative and not going for it on 4th and short on Washington's side of the field. Their first 7 points came after Whitt nutted up and went for it on 4th and 4 from Washington's 45 or something. Easy 7 yards, first down. We're going to have to ask advanced stats expert @backthepack, but that's probably always the statistically smart move. In the second half, he passed up more than one opportunity to make that same choice, with even fewer yards to gain, and paid for it, I believe. The one time they went for it on 4th in the second half, he stupidly condensed the formation and tried big-dicking a team with more talent.
I almost made and posted a .gif of the other short TD run, in which Tuputala blows up his blocker, maintains inside leverage and absorbs the running back short of the goal line but he has no help to keep the running back out, as Sirmon gets destroyed so badly by the tight end that he ends up shielding Turner from the play and Turner just stands there instead of trying to do something about it, but I didn't want to pile on.Swaye said:Chinned because of you noticing that Asa play. That infuriated me.
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Just so it’s clear, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. There are a LOT of issues going on with this team right now. And the Jon Don first half play calling was a huge red flag. This team has so much to fix and get better at, and I don’t think they’ve played to their potential in 1 1/2 out of 3 games.
But I am also dooging because that was an incredible comeback win. It’s something to be enjoyed and celebrated. This team was completely dominated for the entire half. And then they nutted up and big dicked a win in the second half by completely dominating Utah.
In the end, Utah only ran 1 play more and had 1 yard less than UW. No way I would have believed that at halftime.
I think we live in a world where both you and I are correct about this team. -
During the recruiting fiasco, when it was looking like he had committed to ND and therefore was fair game for shit talking, I mentioned this concern and remember getting a lot of shit for it. His high school film looked sooooo soft. How are you a gigantic safety in high school and don't have a single highlight of a hard hit? I mentioned liking the pickup for potential, but had concerns whether he could hack it at this level if he's shying away from contact in high school. By contrast, I LOVED Cameron Williams' film. He's not 6'4", but he was blowing people the fuck up all over his reel. That's a football player.RoadDawg55 said:I don’t notice Asa Turner in coverage so I think he’s doing well there. He’s so fucking soft tho. He was last year too. We expected a big, physical safety. He’s far from that. Not saying he’s bad, but I’m not going to Doog out over a safety that adverse to contact.
Fast forward, and neither are exactly painting themselves in glory at the moment. Williams wants to take somebody's head off, he just keeps missing and giving up long runs for first downs, and Turner's playing no different at this level than he did in his high school film. I'd rather have a weak tackle than no tackle at all, so TBSers are still winning this round, but I really wish I could put Williams into Turners body...
I don't like to bash the players, but I don't mind in this case because they're both still young and show a ton of potential. I think they'll both be great in this system down the road, but I need to see Williams get a little bigger and more in control with his tackling, and I need to see Turner start making use of that big body and intimidating receivers and running backs. At this point, there's no advantage to Turner over, say, Myles Bryant up near the LOS in that nickel if Turner isn't going to play any bigger than Bryant did (Bryant beat blocks and made tackles and was a surprisingly good "linebacker" at his size). -
Not going to lie: Watching the locker room celebrations and on-field postgame defensive photo shoots, my Grinch heart almost grew three sizes that day and I almost went to bed without venting at all. Almost. I really like the "brotherhood" angle and fun that the players are clearly having. If they're so ecstatic with this comeback win, my fat ass on the couch at home should be, right? But I just couldn't shake the angle that a team doesn't have to celebrate a 21 point comeback at all if they just don't get down by three scores to an inferior opponent in the first place.DoogCourics said:Just so it’s clear, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. There are a LOT of issues going on with this team right now. And the Jon Don first half play calling was a huge red flag. This team has so much to fix and get better at, and I don’t think they’ve played to their potential in 1 1/2 out of 3 games.
But I am also dooging because that was an incredible comeback win. It’s something to be enjoyed and celebrated. This team was completely dominated for the entire half. And then they nutted up and big dicked a win in the second half by completely dominating Utah.
In the end, Utah only ran 1 play more and had 1 yard less than UW. No way I would have believed that at halftime.
I think we live in a world where both you and I are correct about this team.
I think I'm particularly frustrated because of the multiple posts about the iron being hot to strike and really take advantage of a power vacuum out west and boost Washington's profile. "Blow them out, and we? could be ranked about BYU!" "Another showing like last Saturday, and good news for Emeka/JTT!" etc. This sentiment wasn't without merit, and I doubt a squeaker at home against Utah--regardless of final emotional win--advanced any of that agenda. Seemed a lot closer to The Script than any of that.
