PM to majoritarian democracy guysm
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Comments
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Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE -
But those two WY senators are just so unfair and imposing tyranny on the good people of California.RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE -
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs. -
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE -
I have drove through twice and got food poisoning twicecreepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE
Handful of people there -
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Exist, maybe even dwell, certainly. Live, I mean really live, no.creepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE -
I lived about 50 mins away from it.creepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE -
Americans live in Wyoming. I enjoy their oil and beef among other things!creepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE -
Muffin top strippers do!creepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE
-
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to. -
You really pinged it at the end. If the Dems moderated some of their social justice shit, and actually went after non coastal elites they could get everything they wanted. Instead they are the party of big city government, transgender bathrooms, and illegals.YellowSnow said:
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to. -
Scratch a leftist, find a fascist. Coastal leftards love the one size fits all approach to life. And that means they want their life imposed on everyone. Having South Dakota remain open and not locked down isn't examined from the standpoint of individualism but rather that it makes Cuomo and Newsome feel good about themselves if they make the people in South Dakota bow down and embrace the shut down. I have no interest in running Incremental Retardation's worthless life but he has a great interest in running my life.
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https://denverpost.com/2019/10/13/who-were-wyoming-cowboys-black-14/
I remember watching Wyoming in the Sugar Bowl the year before. This was a GOOD Wyoming football team. Too bad the coach was a mental midget -
Because @MikeDamone died of the Vid I am taking over the role of Federalist Papers shit poaster.
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pretty sure he’s only in a Coma. He’ll be back in a year.
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Man crush Shapiro had a great bit yesterday on how forward thinking it was to avoid tyranny of majority rule when the founding fathers implemented Senatorial representation. No way would Vermont, New Hampshire and other smaller colonies would have voted to join the Union only to be legislated by Virginia, New York, and Pennsylvania. Next time I'm around anyone lamenting why Wyoming, Montana, Idaho et al have as much representation as California, I will only ask them what they have against Checks and Balances.
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Like so many things in our educational system that have been sacrificed on the altar of standardized testing and STEM, the consequence of a lack of even the most remedial Civics instruction is beginning to rear its ugly head.YellowSnow said:
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to.
Most Americans today don’t realize we’re a federal democratic republic - or what that means. -
Preach gurrl. The average dip shit now thinks "liberal arts" means politically liberal. The average dipshit doesn't understand from where the critical skills of reading, writing and speaking well come or why they're important. The average dipshit thinks critical thinking only happens in business or STEM education. You don't take a philosophy class because you're going to be a professional philosophizer. You take it to stretch your brain a little bit and move on to other things. Same with history, Engrish, etc.Doog_de_Jour said:
Like so many things in our educational system that have been sacrificed on the altar of standardized testing and STEM, the consequence of a lack of even the most remedial Civics instruction is beginning to rear its ugly head.YellowSnow said:
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to.
Most Americans today don’t realize we’re a federal democratic republic - or what that means.
Universities are dropping departments in the schools of arts and sciences right and left. Pretty soon it will all be pre-professional undergraduate courses of study. -
There is one big state that would leave too
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They couldn't kill a Californian in two tries?RaceBannon said:
I have drove through twice and got food poisoning twicecreepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE
Handful of people there
Sad! -
What I got out of this thread
2 cheerleaders (wood), 2 Senators (wood not), a couple of strippers all live (but not really living) in Wyoming. The founding fathers were smart. The Dems are dumb, Yella is the new Damone. and the new Tequilla. -
Two of the four already did.LoneStarDawg said:There is one big state that would leave too
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Every boared needs one.YellowSnow said:Because @MikeDamone died of the Vid I am taking over the role of Federalist Papers shit poaster.
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Used to be the devils den. On the Wyoming Colorado border on highway 85. Ive seen it in person.Swaye said:
Muffin top strippers do!creepycoug said:
Does anybody actually live in Wyoming?RaceBannon said:Let me dumb this down for 2020
If the big states have all the power the little states will LEAVE
Cheyenne Frontier Days is legit. Wranglers and rufies. Whats not to like? -
Also in Cheyenne: drive through liquor combined with tatty bar.
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On the topic of the Senate; The 17th Amendment is the worst amendment
Astute readers will note my previous post about the damage that William Randolph Hearst and his fake news (yellow journalism) did to the country by controlling one of the largest media corporations in the world and pushing the US into the Spanish American War but few remember that it was Hearst who also successfully manipulated the populace into the formation of the 17th amendment and the removal of a State's representation within the federal government.
The "People's Party" in the 1890s pushed repeatedly for the popular election of Senators rather than the appointment of senators via state legislature. At the turn of the century the democratic party absorbed and co-opted the Populist party, Labor party, and People's Party. The more mainstream and popular Democrat party, with new leftists adopted into its ranks, then pushed more vigorously for the direct election of Senators. But it wasn't until Hearst, with his massive manipulative media power became involved in the "debate" that the movement really gained traction.
William Randolph Hearst opened a nationwide popular readership for direct election of U.S. senators in a 1906 series of articles using flamboyant language attacking "The Treason of the Senate" in his Cosmopolitan magazine. David Graham Philips, one of the "yellow journalists" whom President Teddy Roosevelt called "muckrakers", described Nelson Aldrich of Rhode Island as the principal "traitor" among the "scurvy lot" in control of the Senate by theft, perjury, and bribes corrupting the state legislatures to gain election to the Senate. A few state legislatures began to petition the Congress for direct election of senators. By 1910, 31 state legislatures had passed resolutions calling for a constitutional amendment allowing direct election, and in the same year ten Republican senators who were opposed to reform were forced out of their seats, acting as a "wake-up call to the Senate".
The 17th amendment eliminated the State's government representation within the federal government. Where the House more directly represented the people the Senate was intended to represent each state legislature, its construction was a balance within congress itself, a balance between direct populism in the house and complex state interests in the Senate.
@RaceBannon was there. -
Cracks me up how the progressives always scream "RAYCISM!!!" and Nixon Southern strategy as to why they can't win in rural America. Fuck all that bullshit. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Dems Senators were regularly winning in red meat states well into the early 2000s. Tom Daschle was from South Dakota for Christ's sake. If they hadn't become exclusively big coastal city liberalism this wouldn't even be an issue.Swaye said:
You really pinged it at the end. If the Dems moderated some of their social justice shit, and actually went after non coastal elites they could get everything they wanted. Instead they are the party of big city government, transgender bathrooms, and illegals.YellowSnow said:
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to. -
Its also pretty hard to define red/blue states once you start to look into it. Do you go by governor, presidential elections, or state legislatures?YellowSnow said:
Cracks me up how the progressives always scream "RAYCISM!!!" and Nixon Southern strategy as to why they can't win in rural America. Fuck all that bullshit. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Dems Senators were regularly winning in red meat states well into the early 2000s. Tom Daschle was from South Dakota for Christ's sake. If they hadn't become exclusively big coastal city liberalism this wouldn't even be an issue.Swaye said:
You really pinged it at the end. If the Dems moderated some of their social justice shit, and actually went after non coastal elites they could get everything they wanted. Instead they are the party of big city government, transgender bathrooms, and illegals.YellowSnow said:
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to.
Texas had NEVER had a Republican governor until 2000 with Rick Perry
West Virginia had ONE full term Republican Senator elected in 1942 and then never had another republican senator until 2014
Mississippi from 1882 - 1978 (almost 100 years) did not have a single Republican in ANY of its executive offices. 2007 was the first year since 1878 where Republicans held a majority in one of the states legislature. -
The party labels have become next to useless for me personally. They mean next to nothing.Houhusky said:
Its also pretty hard to define red/blue states once you start to look into it. Do you go by governor, presidential elections, or state legislatures?YellowSnow said:
Cracks me up how the progressives always scream "RAYCISM!!!" and Nixon Southern strategy as to why they can't win in rural America. Fuck all that bullshit. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Dems Senators were regularly winning in red meat states well into the early 2000s. Tom Daschle was from South Dakota for Christ's sake. If they hadn't become exclusively big coastal city liberalism this wouldn't even be an issue.Swaye said:
You really pinged it at the end. If the Dems moderated some of their social justice shit, and actually went after non coastal elites they could get everything they wanted. Instead they are the party of big city government, transgender bathrooms, and illegals.YellowSnow said:
It's a miracle from Dios that you got a pretend lawyer degree @creepycoug with your hatred of reading.creepycoug said:
Yella you know damn well my attention span for Tequilla only applies to posts that I write.YellowSnow said:The equality of representation in the Senate is another point, which, being evidently the result of compromise between the opposite pretensions of the large and the small States, does not call for much discussion. If indeed it be right, that among a people thoroughly incorporated into one nation, every district ought to have a PROPORTIONAL share in the government, and that among independent and sovereign States, bound together by a simple league, the parties, however unequal in size, ought to have an EQUAL share in the common councils, it does not appear to be without some reason that in a compound republic, partaking both of the national and federal character, the government ought to be founded on a mixture of the principles of proportional and equal representation. But it is superfluous to try, by the standard of theory, a part of the Constitution which is allowed on all hands to be the result, not of theory, but "of a spirit of amity, and that mutual deference and concession which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.'' A common government, with powers equal to its objects, is called for by the voice, and still more loudly by the political situation, of America. A government founded on principles more consonant to the wishes of the larger States, is not likely to be obtained from the smaller States. The only option, then, for the former, lies between the proposed government and a government still more objectionable. Under this alternative, the advice of prudence must be to embrace the lesser evil; and, instead of indulging a fruitless anticipation of the possible mischiefs which may ensue, to contemplate rather the advantageous consequences which may qualify the sacrifice.
In this spirit it may be remarked, that the equal vote allowed to each State is at once a constitutional recognition of the portion of sovereignty remaining in the individual States, and an instrument for preserving that residuary sovereignty. So far the equality ought to be no less acceptable to the large than to the small States; since they are not less solicitous to guard, by every possible expedient, against an improper consolidation of the States into one simple republic.
Another advantage accruing from this ingredient in the constitution of the Senate is, the additional impediment it must prove against improper acts of legislation. No law or resolution can now be passed without the concurrence, first, of a majority of the people, and then, of a majority of the States. It must be acknowledged that this complicated check on legislation may in some instances be injurious as well as beneficial; and that the peculiar defense which it involves in favor of the smaller States, would be more rational, if any interests common to them, and distinct from those of the other States, would otherwise be exposed to peculiar danger. But as the larger States will always be able, by their power over the supplies, to defeat unreasonable exertions of this prerogative of the lesser States, and as the faculty and excess of law-making seem to be the diseases to which our governments are most liable, it is not impossible that this part of the Constitution may be more convenient in practice than it appears to many in contemplation.
Lengthy pedantic posts for me, not for thee.
Give me the Cliffs.
Everyday I get texts from my righteous liberal frens complaining about how "un-democratic" the Senate is. My response is always the same- i.e., "duh, that was the point". The founders believed that rule by 51% or majoritarian democracy could be just a tyrannical as despotism. Progressives in this country want to have it ALL- e.g., Medicare for All, Universal Pre-K, New Gun Control Laws, etc, but they don't want to do the hard work of winning substantial majorities in the Senate like FDR and LBJ did. Quit trying to cater only to what CA and NY voters want and go win some seats in rural states like you guysm used to.
Texas had NEVER had a Republican governor until 2000 with Rick Perry
West Virginia had ONE full term Republican Senator elected in 1942 and then never had another republican senator until 2014
Mississippi from 1882 - 1978 (almost 100 years) did not have a single Republican in ANY of its executive offices. 2007 was the first year since 1878 where Republicans held a majority in one of the states legislature.
