Orange Man Bad...
Comments
-
When the Dems run someone resembling an actual liberal and not a socialist I might reconsider my current position. Until then Trump's the closest thing resembling that.CirrhosisDawg said:
Bill weld wouldn’t cut taxes and replace rbg?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Trumps continuing "failure" is completely better than the current proposals of Democrat "success". I'll take 5 more years and the replacement of RBG in a heartbeat.CirrhosisDawg said:
I support trump’s failure. Five more years!MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
Sark>Ty but it's always Sark>Ty in politics.
Who you voting for CD? -
Is a leftist emotional retard the same as someone with tds? Wha does that mean? What aren’t leftist emotional retards or tds sufferers doing that make you meltdown like this?MikeDamone said:
Of course a communist would think that.CirrhosisDawg said:
You’ve always been a trumptard at heart.MikeDamone said:
Seems to be working. Probably not as well as higher income taxes on everyone, a wealth tax, take over of everyone's health care, reparations, free higher education, loan forgiveness, and a take over of all energy production, but I'm willing to risk it.CirrhosisDawg said:
I support trump’s failure. Five more years!MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
Some people chose to have daily emotional breakdowns over trump. Others don't. Leftist emotional retards think that anyone who isn't hysterically over trump is a "trump supporter".
They think that because, well, they are leftist emotional retards. -
CD's Triple-Questioning Tick is back.CirrhosisDawg said:
Is a leftist emotional retard the same as someone with tds? Wha does that mean? What aren’t leftist emotional retards or tds sufferers doing that make you meltdown like this?MikeDamone said:
Of course a communist would think that.CirrhosisDawg said:
You’ve always been a trumptard at heart.MikeDamone said:
Seems to be working. Probably not as well as higher income taxes on everyone, a wealth tax, take over of everyone's health care, reparations, free higher education, loan forgiveness, and a take over of all energy production, but I'm willing to risk it.CirrhosisDawg said:
I support trump’s failure. Five more years!MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
Some people chose to have daily emotional breakdowns over trump. Others don't. Leftist emotional retards think that anyone who isn't hysterically over trump is a "trump supporter".
They think that because, well, they are leftist emotional retards.
Once a clueless retard, always a clueless retard. -
The republican candidate. Bill weld.UW_Doog_Bot said:
When the Dems run someone resembling an actual liberal and not a socialist I might reconsider my current position. Until then Trump's the closest thing resembling that.CirrhosisDawg said:
Bill weld wouldn’t cut taxes and replace rbg?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Trumps continuing "failure" is completely better than the current proposals of Democrat "success". I'll take 5 more years and the replacement of RBG in a heartbeat.CirrhosisDawg said:
I support trump’s failure. Five more years!MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
Sark>Ty but it's always Sark>Ty in politics.
Who you voting for CD? -
I say Trump wins rather easily unless the swamp is able to rig it again. You in for orange man this time Damone?MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
-
I would vote for him rather easily but it won't matter. Unless the Dems ACTUALLY get some bombshell evidence Trump will be the nominee. Even now, that might not be true given that they've cried wolf so many times. I'll give you points for intellectual consistency at least.CirrhosisDawg said:
The republican candidate. Bill weld.UW_Doog_Bot said:
When the Dems run someone resembling an actual liberal and not a socialist I might reconsider my current position. Until then Trump's the closest thing resembling that.CirrhosisDawg said:
Bill weld wouldn’t cut taxes and replace rbg?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Trumps continuing "failure" is completely better than the current proposals of Democrat "success". I'll take 5 more years and the replacement of RBG in a heartbeat.CirrhosisDawg said:
I support trump’s failure. Five more years!MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
Sark>Ty but it's always Sark>Ty in politics.
Who you voting for CD? -
Her death alone and Trump getting to replace her would be worth everything to watch the left meltdown and the inevitable cannibalism which would ensue. Is she on life support yet?CirrhosisDawg said:
Bill weld wouldn’t cut taxes and replace rbg?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Trumps continuing "failure" is completely better than the current proposals of Democrat "success". I'll take 5 more years and the replacement of RBG in a heartbeat.CirrhosisDawg said:
I support trump’s failure. Five more years!MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
-
Trump not only magically does everything. He also heals people himself.Bendintheriver said:
He just seated 1/3rd of all Fed Judge seats, the stock market has sky rocketed, we have the lowest minority unemployment levels ever, the number on welfare has decreased since BO, the number of SNAP recipients has dropped dramatically since BO, the full time disability rolls have dropped dramatically since BO, we are about to completely and fairly redraw the trade agreements between MX and Canada, taxes were cut for Americans and the Fed revenue has gone up, home purchases are up since BO, things such as consumer confidence are up since BO, NATO and UN Partners are starting to pay their fair share and stop stealing from the American tax payers, etc, etc, etc.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
Yeah, you would have to be a complete and utter fucktard to think Trump's agenda is dead. -
RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
-
Jobs are being created at basically the exact same rate as under Obama and revenues are growing slower than under Obama. While I appreciate you parroting Rush. It's bullshit trying to establish causality to a simple mind.Southerndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come. -
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term -
.
Five more glorious years.Southerndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come. -
Literally everyone I know personally is doing better financially now than they were in 2015. Without exception. Dems have a tough sell ahead.Southerndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come. -
Not a popular opinion, but I think one of the biggest mistakes we? made as a country is presidential term limits.RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Weither you liked his politics or not, we? needed FDR to survive WWII.
Cut off your nose to spite your face. -
Maybe, or maybe we would have had a president who didn't get blindsided by Pearl Harbor but I don't deal in hypotheticals. FDR extended the Great Depression and created a statist legacy that is still the rallying point of the Left in this country today. Fuck him.pawz said:
Not a popular opinion, but I think one of the biggest mistakes we? made as a country is presidential term limits.RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Weither you liked his politics or not, we? needed FDR to survive WWII.
Cut off your nose to spite your face. -
RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Bruh - we need Ivanka in 2024. 8 years of making cleavage great again puts her at 51 years old by the end of her second term and that's about when things start to sag. -
If we? have presidential term limits, it stands to reason there should be Congressional term limits as well.pawz said:
Not a popular opinion, but I think one of the biggest mistakes we? made as a country is presidential term limits.RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Weither you liked his politics or not, we? needed FDR to survive WWII.
Cut off your nose to spite your face.
-
2 big luscious unassailable reasons to re-elect the Donald, right there.PurpleThrobber said:RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Bruh - we need Ivanka in 2024. 8 years of making cleavage great again puts her at 51 years old by the end of her second term and that's about when things start to sag. -
One would say Congressional term limits are more Chimportant.PurpleThrobber said:
If we? have presidential term limits, it stands to reason there should be Congressional term limits as well.pawz said:
Not a popular opinion, but I think one of the biggest mistakes we? made as a country is presidential term limits.RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Weither you liked his politics or not, we? needed FDR to survive WWII.
Cut off your nose to spite your face.
Honest Abe knew he and his buddies were only serving one term - each. -
"Honest" Abe. Lol. That piece of shit againpawz said:
One would say Congressional term limits are more Chimportant.PurpleThrobber said:
If we? have presidential term limits, it stands to reason there should be Congressional term limits as well.pawz said:
Not a popular opinion, but I think one of the biggest mistakes we? made as a country is presidential term limits.RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Weither you liked his politics or not, we? needed FDR to survive WWII.
Cut off your nose to spite your face.
Honest Abe knew he and his buddies were only serving one term - each. -
I think it's actually 31PurpleThrobber said:RaceBannon said:
Its amazing how much better Trump is doing than Obama didSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:
Lower gas and heating prices too unless you live in a liberal state that hates poor peopleMikeDamone said:
I am. Everyone knows that.BennyBeaver said:
I remember my worry about tax cuts and retirement funds phase.MikeDamone said:
I know. My Gary Johnson vote was terrible. But at least I got the tax cuts that were necessary and my retirement fund is at an all tim high. So I'm not that upset about the failed trump agenda.CirrhosisDawg said:
Trump lost the 2018 election and his agenda is dead. You should have supported better candidates.MikeDamone said:
Read your posts, then look in a mirror and you'll know.CirrhosisDawg said:What does trump derangement syndrome mean? Whatever it is, why does it bother you so much?
You sound poor.
I should also add the low interest rates. Also gives me a bounce in my step.
We doubled our receipts this year. Very good year. A tremendous year really, people are commenting on what a really great year we had.
Trump's tax cuts and de-regulation are creating jobs and increasing tax revenues. The pie is growing. We're all better off. Five more years of winning to come.
Might be time for a constitutional amendment to get him a third term
Bruh - we need Ivanka in 2024. 8 years of making cleavage great again puts her at 51 years old by the end of her second term and that's about when things start to sag.