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America's greatest MUST WIN military victory of all time?
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Saratoga - 1777Several on that list don't even deserve consideration. Vicksburg was big for a western theater battle, and very strategeric, but the war was going to be won back east. Atlanta? Christ. Baltimore? WTF? Even Gettysburg could have been a Union loss and still forced Lee to retreat because he wouldn't continue to have the manpower or logistical support to sustain an invasion. The argument for Antietam is stronger than any other Civil War battle, IMO.
I've made the poont many times that Midway was the most decisive 15 minutes in US military history, and that Normandy was a fucking overrated (thanks a fucking lot, Hanks and Spielberg) afterthought given what the Sovs were doing on the Eastern Front. But, really, none of those battles would have been fought had we? not turned the tide in the RevWar. Trenton was a feel-good sideshow, Yorktown was mop-up duty. Saratoga was the must-win, the tide-turner.
There are actually some interesting recent counterfactual books asking the querey of what would we be like had the British won the RevWar. Had we? lost, slavery probably have been abolished by the British 20 years later, no weird jingoist Manifest Destiny messianic mentality would have ingrained itself in the American collective consciousness, and we? likely would have gained independence like Canada did, later in the 19th century. A kinder, gentler version of ourselves, probably with universal health care instead of the prosperity gospel anti-brown 2A bullshit we have now
Hi Race! -
Normandy - 1944Wow. I’ve never rooted against the US in the Revolutionary War before. Until now...
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England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!! -
Saratoga - 1777
Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world warsRaceBannon said:England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!! -
Saratoga - 1777
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/15/we-could-have-been-canadaRaceBannon said:England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!
Race has done it again!
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Normandy - 1944
Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!BearsWiin said:
Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world warsRaceBannon said:England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!! -
Write-in Option
If you are going to go to war, it should be total war. Otherwise stay home and don't fight in the first place.YellowSnow said:
They are full of shit. We would have used it on Germany if needed. We? had not qualms about BBQ ing kraut civilians. In fact, the fire bombing of Dresden occurred well before LeMay started fire bombing Japan's cities.RaceBannon said:
My woke history taught me that the bomb was reserved for the yellow folks not the white folksYellowSnow said:
We can agree getting thwarted on the beaches of Normandy would have been a disaster. It's difficult to say how far the Soviets would have advanced. We had some leverage in the sense that they were still receiving massive lend lease aid from us. We know the bomb was ready by Aug 1945. Might Germany have received it first?ThomasFremont said:
I don’t know. A massive defeat at Normandy might have totally stalled the Allies. Second guessing is a bitch. Just look at Africa and Italy.YellowSnow said:
The Soviets would have still ended up in Berlin even if Overlord failed. Probably not by April 1945 but it was still going to happen. Consider that 90% of all Whermacht casualties in the war were inflicted by the Soviets. The importance of Normandy was that it enabled us to keep much of Europe out of the Soviet sphere.ThomasFremont said:If the Allies take a loss at Normandy, fortress Europe holds and we enter a stalemate. The 101st and 82nd Airborne would be stranded behind enemy lines with no hope of resupply. At the very least many more casualties in follow up landing attempts. Nazis don’t get pressured on multiple fronts. A lot of things have to go right to end up with the same outcome. Not a lot of things have to happen for Hitler and Nazi Germany to remain a military power.
Meanwhile, the Nazis would have been riding high, had more time and resources to devote to the East.
Let’s say the Soviets roll them anyways (most likely)...if we aren’t meeting them in Berlin, do they stop? I doubt it. Now we are maybe meeting them in Paris? Do we stalemate or do we fight them now that they’ve violated our alliance by invading France (under the pretense of wiping out remaining Nazi units/leaders)? Either way, seems much worse than the way it played out.
Probably because the Japs bombed us and we were still really pissed off
Or racist
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Write-in OptionThomasFremont said:
Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!BearsWiin said:
Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world warsRaceBannon said:England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!
Oktober could have been special.
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Normandy - 1944
Das es verboten!!1!PurpleThrobber said:ThomasFremont said:
Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!BearsWiin said:
Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world warsRaceBannon said:England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!
Oktober could have been special. -
Write-in Option
Das is gut.ThomasFremont said:
Das es verboten!!1!PurpleThrobber said:ThomasFremont said:
Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!BearsWiin said:
Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world warsRaceBannon said:England would be speaking German
Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!
Oktober could have been special.
Rechts zurück sein, masturbieren
