A random mass shooter question
For reference, here are the regs for WA:
https://www.usacarry.com/washington_concealed_carry_permit_information.html
Comments
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Not that I can recall. CCW people on the whole are extremely law abiding. Arrest rate is minuscule. In fact last time I saw it it was lower than for law enforcement.YellowSnow said:Does any one know if any of the mass shooters in the past 20 years or so were licensed to conceal and carry? In other words, had any of them gone through this licensing process?
For reference, here are the regs for WA:
https://www.usacarry.com/washington_concealed_carry_permit_information.html -
Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this. -
Conceal carry deserves extra scrutiny because you're out there with a gun. I could pass the check but I shouldn't be driving with a gun.
So I don't -
So let me ask you and @Sledog this: Do you feel CCW permitting process is a violation of 2A rights?Swaye said:Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this. -
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Fagging out the thread.Sledog said: -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/26/people-with-concealed-carry-permits-have-committed-at-least-29-mass-shootings-since-2007/?noredirect=on
Don't trust the Washington Compost but this is what they say: 29 CCWs have committed mass shootings (3 or more?) between 2007-2015. So, an almost statistically insignificant number (not to those killed obviously but trying to use maff here) in the total number of shootings over that time period.
In short, it would seem that CCW screening clears out lots of potential crazies. 29 over 9 years is basically 3 incidents per year. All states. That is a very small number when taken in context. The linked article says itself that hundreds of mass shooting take place each year nationwide (gang related on a bunch of them I'd imagine?). -
Nope. Not one bit for me. I quite like it. Look, for home defense and all the "bulwark against unchecked aggression" stuff from yesterday, for guns you will be keeping at home, the government can fuck off (after the required NCIS check and aforementioned mental health checks), but carrying a gun out and about requires a different layer of scrutiny to me. And training. I can't speak for other states, but Virginia requires a safety and ethics class. And there are tons of rules you have to understand - this isn't a stand your ground state so you must *try* to flee or back away from any potential conflict first. So you must understand your requirements to carry a weapon. I am fine with people being held to a higher standard than home use. I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.YellowSnow said:
So let me ask you and @Sledog this: Do you feel CCW permitting process is a violation of 2A rights?Swaye said:Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this. -
I would guess the vast vast majority of people open carrying ARs fall into this caregory.Swaye said:
I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart. -
Signs point to yes.WilburHooksHands said:
I would guess the vast vast majority of people open carrying ARs fall into this caregory.Swaye said:
I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.
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Concealed carry of a handgun is a world apart from bringing your kitted .308 to starbucks imo.Sledog said: -
As originally intended yes I do. A large number of the signers were probably carrying firearms when they signed it. Jefferson for one never ventured out without a pistol. Usually two.Swaye said:
Nope. Not one bit for me. I quite like it. Look, for home defense and all the "bulwark against unchecked aggression" stuff from yesterday, for guns you will be keeping at home, the government can fuck off (after the required NCIS check and aforementioned mental health checks), but carrying a gun out and about requires a different layer of scrutiny to me. And training. I can't speak for other states, but Virginia requires a safety and ethics class. And there are tons of rules you have to understand - this isn't a stand your ground state so you must *try* to flee or back away from any potential conflict first. So you must understand your requirements to carry a weapon. I am fine with people being held to a higher standard than home use. I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.YellowSnow said:
So let me ask you and @Sledog this: Do you feel CCW permitting process is a violation of 2A rights?Swaye said:Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this.
In 1785 Thomas Jefferson wrote to his fifteen-year-old nephew, Peter Carr, regarding what he considered the best form of exercise: "... I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."1 -
They'll both kill you. But I think open carry is stupid. Just hangs a sign on you to bad guys "shoot me first". Surprise isn't overrated.WilburHooksHands said:
Concealed carry of a handgun is a world apart from bringing your kitted .308 to starbucks imo.Sledog said:
Our founders expected that people would hold this right in high regard and act appropriately. -
Swaye said:
Nope. Not one bit for me. I quite like it. Look, for home defense and all the "bulwark against unchecked aggression" stuff from yesterday, for guns you will be keeping at home, the government can fuck off (after the required NCIS check and aforementioned mental health checks), but carrying a gun out and about requires a different layer of scrutiny to me. And training. I can't speak for other states, but Virginia requires a safety and ethics class. And there are tons of rules you have to understand - this isn't a stand your ground state so you must *try* to flee or back away from any potential conflict first. So you must understand your requirements to carry a weapon. I am fine with people being held to a higher standard than home use. I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.YellowSnow said:
So let me ask you and @Sledog this: Do you feel CCW permitting process is a violation of 2A rights?Swaye said:Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this.
So here's the deal: whether the numbers are statistically irrelevant - they are for terrorism too and yet we spend a shit ton preventing it - we've got a big problem vis-a-vis crazy, socially alienated males and the most popular long arm in America. And whether we? like it or not, popular opinion at some point is going to force a DO SOMETHING compromise on the matter. We can agree CCW requires a different level of scrutiny to try and weed out those who shouldn't be carrying. So why not some similar level of scrutiny for ownership of all semi-auto rifles greater than .22LR in caliber? If you want to own an AR type rifle then fine; but let's make the process a similar vetting to CCW.
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Shut the tug down becuase I agree with Sledog. Not right! Not left! FORWARD!!!1Sledog said:
They'll both kill you. But I think open carry is stupid. Just hangs a sign on you to bad guys "shoot me first". Surprise isn't overrated.WilburHooksHands said:
Concealed carry of a handgun is a world apart from bringing your kitted .308 to starbucks imo.Sledog said:
Our founders expected that people would hold this right in high regard and act appropriately. -
I'll feel much better next time I'm in California knowing that you are not carrying a gun in your car.RaceBannon said:Conceal carry deserves extra scrutiny because you're out there with a gun. I could pass the check but I shouldn't be driving with a gun.
So I don't -
This is exactly my point. Relatively few mass shootings (and shootings overall) are done by those educated on guns.Swaye said:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/26/people-with-concealed-carry-permits-have-committed-at-least-29-mass-shootings-since-2007/?noredirect=on
Don't trust the Washington Compost but this is what they say: 29 CCWs have committed mass shootings (3 or more?) between 2007-2015. So, an almost statistically insignificant number (not to those killed obviously but trying to use maff here) in the total number of shootings over that time period.
In short, it would seem that CCW screening clears out lots of potential crazies. 29 over 9 years is basically 3 incidents per year. All states. That is a very small number when taken in context. The linked article says itself that hundreds of mass shooting take place each year nationwide (gang related on a bunch of them I'd imagine?). -
We already have background checks for gun purchases. Most all of the recent mass shooters legally purchased their guns. With no criminal background they'd pass your check too. Wouldn't do a thing. Then when it happens the mantra will be "outlaw everything!"YellowSnow said:Swaye said:
Nope. Not one bit for me. I quite like it. Look, for home defense and all the "bulwark against unchecked aggression" stuff from yesterday, for guns you will be keeping at home, the government can fuck off (after the required NCIS check and aforementioned mental health checks), but carrying a gun out and about requires a different layer of scrutiny to me. And training. I can't speak for other states, but Virginia requires a safety and ethics class. And there are tons of rules you have to understand - this isn't a stand your ground state so you must *try* to flee or back away from any potential conflict first. So you must understand your requirements to carry a weapon. I am fine with people being held to a higher standard than home use. I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.YellowSnow said:
So let me ask you and @Sledog this: Do you feel CCW permitting process is a violation of 2A rights?Swaye said:Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this.
So here's the deal: whether the numbers are statistically irrelevant - they are for terrorism too and yet we spend a shit ton preventing it - we've got a big problem vis-a-vis crazy, socially alienated males and the most popular long arm in America. And whether we? like it or not, popular opinion at some point is going to force a DO SOMETHING compromise on the matter. We can agree CCW requires a different level of scrutiny to try and weed out those who shouldn't be carrying. So why not some similar level of scrutiny for ownership of all semi-auto rifles greater than .22LR in caliber? If you want to own an AR type rifle then fine; but let's make the process a similar vetting to CCW.
The left wants nothing less than total bans on all guns and confiscation. -
This right here. Totally agree. I'm also against the 'arm the teachers' idea for the same basic family of concerns. What could go wrong?Swaye said:
Nope. Not one bit for me. I quite like it. Look, for home defense and all the "bulwark against unchecked aggression" stuff from yesterday, for guns you will be keeping at home, the government can fuck off (after the required NCIS check and aforementioned mental health checks), but carrying a gun out and about requires a different layer of scrutiny to me. And training. I can't speak for other states, but Virginia requires a safety and ethics class. And there are tons of rules you have to understand - this isn't a stand your ground state so you must *try* to flee or back away from any potential conflict first. So you must understand your requirements to carry a weapon. I am fine with people being held to a higher standard than home use. I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.YellowSnow said:
So let me ask you and @Sledog this: Do you feel CCW permitting process is a violation of 2A rights?Swaye said:Tons of them:
http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/
I have not validated that info so no idea if it is true or not, but I do know the last entry for the Navy Yard killer is accurate - he had CCW, so I assume it's somewhat accurate. Still, by total numbers of those killed over the last 15 years it's got to be a small percentage. Also, I do not think all CCW are created the same - i.e. there are some "Shall Issue" states, so no idea how that plays into this. -
I cannot believe it but we are reaching some type of small consensus on guns, by wildly different groups, in the Tug! How can a bunch of basement dwelling dipshits talk this out and broadly agree on some small points of policy over two days and our elected morons cant figure anything out, about this or any other topic, in twenty years?
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I don't want to take your guns. Just your watches.Swaye said:I cannot believe it but we are reaching some type of small consensus on guns, by wildly different groups, in the Tug! How can a bunch of basement dwelling dipshits talk this out and broadly agree on some small points of policy over two days and our elected morons cant figure anything out, about this or any other topic, in twenty years?
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One side is bought off by NRA and large corporations. Other side of bought off by wealthy philanthropical Pussies and large corporations.Swaye said:I cannot believe it but we are reaching some type of small consensus on guns, by wildly different groups, in the Tug! How can a bunch of basement dwelling dipshits talk this out and broadly agree on some small points of policy over two days and our elected morons cant figure anything out, about this or any other topic, in twenty years?
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I can kill you with my bare hands2001400ex said:
I'll feel much better next time I'm in California knowing that you are not carrying a gun in your car.RaceBannon said:Conceal carry deserves extra scrutiny because you're out there with a gun. I could pass the check but I shouldn't be driving with a gun.
So I don't
Rather easily -
can we just ban guns for nerds?
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Not while we are each in our own car.RaceBannon said:
I can kill you with my bare hands2001400ex said:
I'll feel much better next time I'm in California knowing that you are not carrying a gun in your car.RaceBannon said:Conceal carry deserves extra scrutiny because you're out there with a gun. I could pass the check but I shouldn't be driving with a gun.
So I don't
Rather easily -
They are influenced by 6 million voters. NRA doesn't have that kind of money. Fuck off Che boy.2001400ex said:
One side is bought off by NRA and large corporations. Other side of bought off by wealthy philanthropical Pussies and large corporations.Swaye said:I cannot believe it but we are reaching some type of small consensus on guns, by wildly different groups, in the Tug! How can a bunch of basement dwelling dipshits talk this out and broadly agree on some small points of policy over two days and our elected morons cant figure anything out, about this or any other topic, in twenty years?
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Anyone shilling for socialism/communism should not be allowed firearms. We know from history what they do with them.WilburHooksHands said:can we just ban guns for nerds?
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Who are these open carry fags in Tejas anyhow? Anyone, who would walk into the grocery store with semi auto rifle strung around their shoulder is a total douche canoe.Swaye said:
Signs point to yes.WilburHooksHands said:
I would guess the vast vast majority of people open carrying ARs fall into this caregory.Swaye said:
I don't want backwoods dipshits toting guns around WalMart.
