The left's destruction of history
Comments
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Link to your DNA evidence?StrongArmCobra said:
Was it another Breitbart article "disproving" the DNA tests now? Lol dude just stop. His white wife died and he took a young, teenage slave as his new wife because he was a horny fucker and he father 6 kids with her and 4 survived to adulthood. That's historical fact. There are first-hand sources and quotes from Sally's children who knew Jefferson was their father. It wasn't some big secret back then. Jefferson took Sally out in public with him and traveled to France with her and shit. But she was still his slave, never his wife. Not to mention he owned dozens of other slaves. What are you even arguing here?Sledog said:
Obviously you didn't read the DNA tests.StrongArmCobra said:I don't know how anybody expects to be taken seriously citing articles from sources like Breitbart and Fox News. Even worse, an article written by Ann Coulter. You know that's fake news and propaganda right?
Her first point alone about Thomas Jefferson is laughable. Jefferson was a slave owner and owned dozens of slaves over his lifetime. That's a fact. It's documented that he owned slaves and there are slave artifacts that have been found on his land. And he did father children with one of his slaves. That has been confirmed by DNA testing black descendants of Jefferson and comparing their DNA to white descendants of Jefferson. It's so accepted that Jefferson's white descendants and black descendants have gotten together for family reunions and shit. He kept the Sally slave locked up in his house in a private room where he would rape her whenever he pleased. Perhaps it seemed consensual to him but a slave is not capable of consent so it was rape.
Look, a lot of people who did good things for America were slave owners. That was the reality of the times back then. If you were a wealthy and influential person, chances are you owned slaves unless you were an abolitionist. People don't get to white wash that shit from history because they don't like it. Historical figures are nuanced human beings. Some of them did good things in their public lives while doing devious and hypocritical things in their personal lives because humans are human. -
Pretty close to virtue signaling, Sleddy.Sledog said:creepycoug said:
Fuck off Sled. You're the guy who cries about keeping things simple. This is simple, so let it be simple.Sledog said:
I see you don't answer. I am what I am. That's true, You are what you are. But you like to obfuscate exactly what that might be at times. Slavery was the way of the world until recent times. My point is, in this instance, that denigrating people to whom it was perfectly normal and as everyday as sunshine as well as their religious beliefs simply to push a a leftist agenda is bullshit. The moral standard has changed and that's a good thing. Keep rallying for the party of slavery, it's your right. Or should I say left?creepycoug said:
I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, and IDRGAF because even with effort you never do seem to make your way to a thought-provoking point.Sledog said:
Just stating what I believe. Don't you?creepycoug said:
Bob ... is this Sledog guy tonguing your ass?
But if you say your religion does not take issue with slavery, and this religion means something to you, then you are what you are.
1. Religious Tenets are not relative to culture. That's the entire point about religion. What's right and what's wrong are objective truths that don't bend with time. That is, the basic things that a given religion stands for are unaffected by the current rage. The opposite of humanism.
2. Any rational interpretation of basic Christian values would proffer that using another human being as if it they were a yard tool, and doing to and with that person whatever you will, is morally wrong.
3. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what the culture dejour had to say about it. If it's wrong today, it was wrong then. That's what we call logical consistency.
Clear enough?
You don't need to lecture me on cultural and moral relativism. I'm the relativist as between us. I find it curious that in our miles of travel together, you are the one who always cited the objective moral code to defend or prosecute a point. And now, because your sensibilities are bent as you engage in this ridiculous panic over whether people will see the founding fathers as fallible human beings, you want to invoke relativism to support the institution of slavery.
I mean, if I wanted to show you in a bad light as a person, I could not have scripted this any better.
I get it. You don't take issue with slave owners 200 years ago, but you also believe in a timeless higher power that defines good and bad. It's your job to reconcile those things, not mine.
Has nothing to do with me taking issue or not. I don't think slavery is right. Never have never will, It was abolished and that took time and thousands of deaths. Since we are talking moral equivalency over time why the fuck are you a democrat?creepycoug said:
Fuck off Sled. You're the guy who cries about keeping things simple. This is simple, so let it be simple.Sledog said:
I see you don't answer. I am what I am. That's true, You are what you are. But you like to obfuscate exactly what that might be at times. Slavery was the way of the world until recent times. My point is, in this instance, that denigrating people to whom it was perfectly normal and as everyday as sunshine as well as their religious beliefs simply to push a a leftist agenda is bullshit. The moral standard has changed and that's a good thing. Keep rallying for the party of slavery, it's your right. Or should I say left?creepycoug said:
I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, and IDRGAF because even with effort you never do seem to make your way to a thought-provoking point.Sledog said:
Just stating what I believe. Don't you?creepycoug said:
Bob ... is this Sledog guy tonguing your ass?Sledog said:
I'm just glad those founding religious right nuts made a great country to live in! If we can just keep the cloaked commie/socialist agenda away we might get to keep it!SFGbob said:Coug is your standard leftwing religious bigot who has a wholly irrational fear of the religious right and what he feels they might do to him. When asked to cite some examples he cited his inability to get an abortion in Georgia.
Meanwhile the religious left wants to take over nearly every aspect of our economy, and re-order our society and is busy forcing their values down everyone's throats every fucking day. But the Religious Right might do something thing!!!!
But if you say your religion does not take issue with slavery, and this religion means something to you, then you are what you are.
1. Religious Tenets are not relative to culture. That's the entire point about religion. What's right and what's wrong are objective truths that don't bend with time. That is, the basic things that a given religion stands for are unaffected by the current rage. The opposite of humanism.
2. Any rational interpretation of basic Christian values would proffer that using another human being as if it they were a yard tool, and doing to and with that person whatever you will, is morally wrong.
3. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what the culture dejour had to say about it. If it's wrong today, it was wrong then. That's what we call logical consistency.
Clear enough?
You don't need to lecture me on cultural and moral relativism. I'm the relativist as between us. I find it curious that in our miles of travel together, you are the one who always cited the objective moral code to defend or prosecute a point. And now, because your sensibilities are bent as you engage in this ridiculous panic over whether people will see the founding fathers as fallible human beings, you want to invoke relativism to support the institution of slavery.
I mean, if I wanted to show you in a bad light as a person, I could not have scripted this any better.
I get it. You don't take issue with slave owners 200 years ago, but you also believe in a timeless higher power that defines good and bad. It's your job to reconcile those things, not mine.
Ever consider brevity? -
I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo. Of course major historical figures who owned slaves also partook in raping one or some of them.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight and their livelihood depends on it. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is. -
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is. -
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
"In 1997, Dr. Eugene Foster, a retired medical professor, began investigating the possibility of a genetic link between living descendents of Thomas Jefferson and those of Sally Hemings. He compared the blood from five descendents of Field Jefferson, Thomas's paternal uncle, with the blood of the descendants of Sally Hemings, Thomas Woodson, and the Carrs. The DNA was extracted from the blood samples at the University of Virginia, then sent to Oxford, England where it was tested by three different laboratories. The results showed a match [see chart] between the Y chromosomes of the Field Jefferson descendents and the Eston Hemming descendent, providing strong support to the theory that Thomas Jefferson fathered at least one of Sally Hemings's children. The chances that this match happened by coincidence are less than .1 percent."
And again, the historical documentation is enough to confirm he fathered children with one of his slaves named Sally Hemings. The DNA is not necessary for proof but only further confirms it. Sounds like they only have enough DNA material from living relatives to confirm he fathered one child with her. But the historical documents say he fathered six with her. You think it's likely he took her as his wife, fathered one child with her, and also allowed other men to fuck her and father children on his property with his property? No. -
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link? -
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it. -
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying. -
Lol 25 other Jefferson's around the state at the time? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless and goes against the evidence and facts as well as common sense.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever. -
We're both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child. "Foster admitted that the DNA had not proved Jefferson fathered any children by Sally Hemings, merely that he could have fathered one child. Only eight newspapers mentioned the retraction. "StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't. -
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Duplicate
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Yes, it does prove he fathered a child with her. If fucking Oxford university is a part of the fucking DNA testing and they say he was more than 99.9% likely to have fathered one of her children, then you can take that to the fucking bank. His white relatives at the time tried to deny it because they were embarrassed and didn't want his legacy tarnished after he died. But he was already a known slave owner so what's the fucking difference? There isn't one.Sledog said:
We;re both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't.
It has nothing to with diminishing his accomplishments or the constitution. It's about telling the truth about history as it was. You can't white wash history just because somebody did good things in his public life and career. You have to tell the whole story because the whole story is a part of American history that can't be snuffed out just because it makes some people uncomfortable. -
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.StrongArmCobra said:
Yes, it does prove he fathered a child with her. If fucking Oxford university is a part of the fucking DNA testing and they say he was more than 99.9% likely to have fathered one of her children, then you can take that to the fucking bank. His white family members at the time tried to deny it because they were embarrassed and didn't want his legacy tarnished.Sledog said:
We;re both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't.
It has nothing to with diminishing his accomplishments or the constitution. It's about telling the truth about history as it was. You can't white wash history just because somebody did good things in his public life and career. You have to tell the whole story because the whole story is a part of American history that can't be snuffed out just because it makes some people uncomfortable.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello.
Nonetheless, Nature magazine titled its article on the study “Jefferson Fathered Slave’s Last Child.” Hundreds of newspapers rushed to print with the lie, e.g.:
“Study: Jefferson, Slave Had Baby” — Associated Press Online, Nov. 1, 1998
“DNA Study Shows Jefferson Fathered His Slave’s Child” — Los Angeles Times, Nov. 1, 1998
“Jefferson Exposed” — Boston Globe, Nov. 3, 1998
"Two months after these false “findings” had been broadcast from every news outlet where English is spoken, Foster admitted that the DNA had not proved Jefferson fathered any children by Sally Hemings, merely that he could have fathered one child. Only eight newspapers mentioned the retraction."
Nope you are dead wrong. The DNA tests prove no such thing. But keep making shit up on assumptions. -
You're a fucking fact denying idiot. The DNA evidence combined with the documentation and provenance from that time make it fucking obvious he was fathering children with his slave. After his death, Sally and her children were all freed by his will.Sledog said:
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.StrongArmCobra said:
Yes, it does prove he fathered a child with her. If fucking Oxford university is a part of the fucking DNA testing and they say he was more than 99.9% likely to have fathered one of her children, then you can take that to the fucking bank. His white family members at the time tried to deny it because they were embarrassed and didn't want his legacy tarnished.Sledog said:
We;re both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't.
It has nothing to with diminishing his accomplishments or the constitution. It's about telling the truth about history as it was. You can't white wash history just because somebody did good things in his public life and career. You have to tell the whole story because the whole story is a part of American history that can't be snuffed out just because it makes some people uncomfortable.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello.
Nonetheless, Nature magazine titled its article on the study “Jefferson Fathered Slave’s Last Child.” Hundreds of newspapers rushed to print with the lie, e.g.:
“Study: Jefferson, Slave Had Baby” — Associated Press Online, Nov. 1, 1998
“DNA Study Shows Jefferson Fathered His Slave’s Child” — Los Angeles Times, Nov. 1, 1998
“Jefferson Exposed” — Boston Globe, Nov. 3, 1998
"Two months after these false “findings” had been broadcast from every news outlet where English is spoken, Foster admitted that the DNA had not proved Jefferson fathered any children by Sally Hemings, merely that he could have fathered one child. Only eight newspapers mentioned the retraction."
Nope you are dead wrong. The DNA tests prove no such thing. But keep making shit up on assumptions.
You're literally arguing that he owned Sally Hemings but he didn't rape her and impregnate her, he passed her around to his male relatives (cousins or brothers) so they could rape her and impregnate her. That's even worse you fucking idiot!
-
JFC take a fucking nap.Sledog said:
We're both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child. "Foster admitted that the DNA had not proved Jefferson fathered any children by Sally Hemings, merely that he could have fathered one child. Only eight newspapers mentioned the retraction. "StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't. -
There is no contemporary supporting evidence. None. I'll wait while you look it up. Historians of the time did not report it.StrongArmCobra said:
You're a fucking fact denying idiot. The DNA evidence combined with the documentation and provenance from that time make it fucking obvious he was fathering children with his slave. After his death, Sally and her children were all freed by his will.Sledog said:
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.StrongArmCobra said:
Yes, it does prove he fathered a child with her. If fucking Oxford university is a part of the fucking DNA testing and they say he was more than 99.9% likely to have fathered one of her children, then you can take that to the fucking bank. His white family members at the time tried to deny it because they were embarrassed and didn't want his legacy tarnished.Sledog said:
We;re both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't.
It has nothing to with diminishing his accomplishments or the constitution. It's about telling the truth about history as it was. You can't white wash history just because somebody did good things in his public life and career. You have to tell the whole story because the whole story is a part of American history that can't be snuffed out just because it makes some people uncomfortable.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello.
Nonetheless, Nature magazine titled its article on the study “Jefferson Fathered Slave’s Last Child.” Hundreds of newspapers rushed to print with the lie, e.g.:
“Study: Jefferson, Slave Had Baby” — Associated Press Online, Nov. 1, 1998
“DNA Study Shows Jefferson Fathered His Slave’s Child” — Los Angeles Times, Nov. 1, 1998
“Jefferson Exposed” — Boston Globe, Nov. 3, 1998
"Two months after these false “findings” had been broadcast from every news outlet where English is spoken, Foster admitted that the DNA had not proved Jefferson fathered any children by Sally Hemings, merely that he could have fathered one child. Only eight newspapers mentioned the retraction."
Nope you are dead wrong. The DNA tests prove no such thing. But keep making shit up on assumptions.
You're literally arguing that he owned Sally Hemings but he didn't rape, he passed her around to his male relatives (cousins or brothers) so they could rape her and impregnate her. That's even worse you fucking idiot! -
one just showed up.creepycoug said:
JFC take a fucking nap.Sledog said:
We're both talking about the same DNA test. It does not link the president and does not prove he fathered a child. "Foster admitted that the DNA had not proved Jefferson fathered any children by Sally Hemings, merely that he could have fathered one child. Only eight newspapers mentioned the retraction. "StrongArmCobra said:
Lol 25 other Jefferson's? It's already proven ONE of her children was fathered through DNA evidence. You wanna argue that he possibly passed her around to his relatives and let them have a piece that's fine but that's even worse. She was his slave. Slaves weren't allowed to to have sex or get pregnant without their masters consent. Your argument so stupid and futile and pointless.Sledog said:
"In 1998, a retired pathologist, Dr. Eugene Foster, performed a DNA test on the Y-chromosomes of living male descendants of Sally Hemings, as well as those from Jefferson’s paternal uncle. The Y-chromosome is passed from male to male, so, if the story were true, Hemings’ male descendants ought to have the Y-chromosome of the Jefferson male bloodline.StrongArmCobra said:
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? Do you not know how DNA works? They don't need Thomas Jefferson's DNA to know who is and who isn't related to him. The Y chromosome is past down from the paternal side. All they have to do is match the Y chromosome of living descendants.Sledog said:
PBS? Run by the lefties?StrongArmCobra said:
Took me 30 seconds to find. I think PBS is probably more credible than whatever bullshit fake news source you got:Sledog said:
Article I posted referenced DNA evidence you claimed you had extensive DNA links to prove your point. Pony up. Your story is full of shit. DNA puts purple in prison pretty convincing stuff.StrongArmCobra said:I don't need it. You need evidence when your trying to disprove something accepted as historical fact. There are primary sources from that time that confirm Jefferson took Sally as his wife, not legally of course, and fathered children with her. It's all documented in detail. All children of white men had to be documented, including who their parents were and Jefferson was a major public figure so the documents were preserved and re-recorded over time. Sally's children had the last name Jefferson. It wasn't that long ago. You can look up all the info yourself:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
You don't even need DNA evidence to confirm because it's in the documentation and primary sources from the people around the Jefferson at the time. The DNA evidence was just further confirmation. But again, what it your fucking point? What's the difference between owning dozens of slaves and raping one of them? It's all bad. Slave rape was common during that time and wasn't taboo.
The right wing loves to white wash history. Ann Coulter is one of the biggest right wing misinformation clowns out there. She's quite an evil cunt. You need to find different news sources or simply read more about history yourself from at least academic text books, not bullshit fake news sources like Ann Coulter.
It's people jobs to record and research this shit and get the facts straight. There is no mass conspiracy among historians to all lie about the same shit. That's nonsense. Some stupid right wing blowhard cunt with zero credibility wrote a bullshit fake news and fake history article and used fake evidence. That's all this is.
https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/
It only links the last child of Gemming to a Jefferson. Not Thomas Jefferson particularly. There were 17 Jefferson males about the place. The big rumor was it was her 1st child. Now it's the 6th with no direct link?
17 other Jefferson males? You mean the male slaves on his fucking plantation who were forced to take the Jefferson last name to identify themselves as his property? They didn't have Jefferson's Y chromosome. Jesus Christ.
Your article is straight bullshit. Sources like Brietbart and Fox News are straight bullshit. Get over it.
What the DNA tests showed was that Hemings’ firstborn son, Tom — the Tom whose alleged paternity was the basis for Callender’s accusation — was not related to any Jefferson male.
Foster’s study did establish that Hemings’ last-born son, Eston, was the son of some Jefferson male, but could not possibly say whether that was Thomas Jefferson or any of the other 25 adult male Jeffersons living in Virginia at the time, eight of them at or near Monticello. "
Sorry 25 male Jefferson's. Not slaves. Actual Jefferson males.
So none of the historians of the time believed this crap but now it's true?
DNA says it ain't especially in the case specifically cited at that time of Hemming's first born.
Keep trying.
What is your fucking point? That he wasn't such a bad guy because he owned all these slaves but didn't rape one of them? That's the dumbest fucking argument ever.
My point is that Jefferson is disparaged by the left in order to diminish his accomplishments and the constitution in particular.
Get it?
Others couldn't. -
I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth? -
Who. Fucking. Cares? STFU and go away.
-
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work! -
Jefferson' wife died in 1782 and he was alive for another 44 years. He never remarried. It was commonplace at the time for slave owners to sleep with slaves. The odds that Jefferson did not fornicate with his slaves are remote at best.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work! -
"The science alone puts the odds of Thomas Jefferson fathering Eston at less than 15% — less than 4%, if all living Jefferson males are considered, not just the ones at Monticello."YellowSnow said:
Jefferson' wife died in 1782 and he was alive for another 44 years. He never remarried. It was commonplace at the time for slave owners to sleep with slaves. The odds that Jefferson did not fornicate with his slaves are remote at best.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
Be that as it may the DNA proved he did not sire the child of the actual accusation or the next four. Only the 6th child is a possibility., If he was doing all that banging at 62 good for him but 62 year olds back then weren't the healthiest. His younger brother on the other hand spent lots of time with the slaves playing the fiddle and dancing while Thomas entertained guests from all over the world.
-
Listen up you yella bellied Hollywood-lovin' rowboat seattle liberal - those unfounded suspicions will taint the view our children have of the founding fathers and lives could be effected!!YellowSnow said:
Jefferson' wife died in 1782 and he was alive for another 44 years. He never remarried. It was commonplace at the time for slave owners to sleep with slaves. The odds that Jefferson did not fornicate with his slaves are remote at best.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
Stop it right now.
Just imagine! A Christian slave owner fornicating with a black slave. The very idea is preposterous! -
These people didn't have TV, internet or phone, and didn't commute to work.Sledog said:
"The science alone puts the odds of Thomas Jefferson fathering Eston at less than 15% — less than 4%, if all living Jefferson males are considered, not just the ones at Monticello."YellowSnow said:
Jefferson' wife died in 1782 and he was alive for another 44 years. He never remarried. It was commonplace at the time for slave owners to sleep with slaves. The odds that Jefferson did not fornicate with his slaves are remote at best.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
Be that as it may the DNA proved he did not sire the child of the actual accusation or the next four. Only the 6th child is a possibility., If he was doing all that banging at 62 good for him but 62 year olds back then weren't the healthiest. His younger brother on the other hand spent lots of time with the slaves playing the fiddle and dancing while Thomas entertained guests from all over the world.
The one thing they had was time. Lots and lots of time within which to pursue many and varied interests. Use your imagination if you have one. -
Again, why won't you post the source of your article? Because it's right-wing fake news bullshit. You don't get to skew the DNA evidence by going AGAINST THE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE from that period of time and also goes against the lab testing done by Oxford University. That is twisting the evidence to try to make it fit a narrative. Your source is fake news. My source is the fucking government and the official website of his house as a historical site. PBS is the government. PUBLIC Broadcasting Service. You are citing some bullshit pseudo-science done by a source with zero credibility that doesn't disprove anything.Sledog said:
"The science alone puts the odds of Thomas Jefferson fathering Eston at less than 15% — less than 4%, if all living Jefferson males are considered, not just the ones at Monticello."YellowSnow said:
Jefferson' wife died in 1782 and he was alive for another 44 years. He never remarried. It was commonplace at the time for slave owners to sleep with slaves. The odds that Jefferson did not fornicate with his slaves are remote at best.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
Be that as it may the DNA proved he did not sire the child of the actual accusation or the next four. Only the 6th child is a possibility., If he was doing all that banging at 62 good for him but 62 year olds back then weren't the healthiest. His younger brother on the other hand spent lots of time with the slaves playing the fiddle and dancing while Thomas entertained guests from all over the world.
So what's your argument? Based on your fake news bullshit article, Thomas Jefferson, as the sole owner of the slave Sally Hemings, either raped and impregnated her himself or allowed one of his male relatives to rape and impregnate her which is EQUALLY BAD you idiot! So which is it? Which one do you prefer to believe to make you feel better? -
Again, PBS is a way, way more credible source than whatever the fake news right wing bullshit your source is. If you went to college, you'd know that and you wouldn't be so easy to fool with fake news done by someone with zero credibility.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
The author literally took the 99.9% likelihood that Jefferson fathered one of the children which was the finding of three different labs that did the DNA testing and divided it by 25 other male Jefferson's living in the state at the time. That's pseudoscience to mislead dumb people like you and to fit the narrative the author wants. -
As if I needed any proof that I'm an objective mother fucker who can see and hear past what I want to see and hear, this is it:StrongArmCobra said:
Again, PBS is a way, way more credible source than whatever the fake news right wing bullshit your source is. If you went to college, you'd know that and you wouldn't be so easy to fool with fake news done by someone zero credibility.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
The author literally took the 99.9% likelihood that Jefferson fathered one of the children and divided it by 25 other male Jefferson's living in the state at the time. That's pseudoscience to mislead dumb people like you.
I. fucking. agree. with. @StrongArmCobra.
There. I said it. -
1. There's also no account of his having taken a shit on a Tuesday. But I'm sure that at some point in his life, he did take a shit on a Tuesday.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
2. Maybe his interest was in fucking her and not in raising her children.
The thing I've noticed about you over time is that you really don't have a good facility for reasoning. You start with the answer you want work your backwards from there, and I'd add not cleverly.
These threads really do make you look like a dumb fuck. And it only entrenches my concern about who gets to be a cop.
Was there some kind of head injury involved with your retirement? Unless this is a J whoosh act, this entire thread really does not do you any favors Sleddy. Not at all. -
He's a retard citing bullshit fake news. She lived in his house. She was never in "slave quarters". She was his house slave and servant since she was a small child. She was his original wife's younger half sister. His wife's father raped one of his slaves and Sally Hemings was a mixed child born from that rape. She wasn't a regular field slave. She lived a more privileged life as an indoor servant because she was light skinned and related to his wife. Jefferson watched her grow up in his house and then sent her to France with his daughter to be her servant there when she was 14 and then brought her back when she was 16 under the agreement that she would be his new wife and she and any children they had together would be freed when he died and they were.creepycoug said:
1. There's also no account of his having taken a shit on a Tuesday. But I'm sure that at some point in his life, he did take a shit on a Tuesday.Sledog said:
Nothing like posting one of the articles mentioned in the article I posted as being false and with information on the children being sired by Jefferson being false as proven by DNA testing. False id false.StrongArmCobra said:I already fucking did:
https://monticello.org/sallyhemings/
This long ass article has all the fucking info plus primary sources from that time who knew both Jefferson and Sally including Sally's children. It also comes from the official website of his estate as a historical site and tourist attraction.
It was written in newspapers by journalists at the time that he had taken a slave as his concubine. It wasn't like she was some field slave. She was mixed and light skinned and he kept her in his house as a servant for himself and his white kids that he had with his original wife. He inherited her from his wife when she was a toddler. She was rumored to be his wife's half sister, born of rape. He sent her to France to be his daughter's servant there when she was 14. He then went to France and brought her back when she was 16 and that was when she got pregnant with her first child and the child didn't live to adulthood. Again, she lived in his house the rest of the time she was giving birth to children. She was mixed and her children were documented as white so they were only a quarter black and passed for white so none of the slaves on his plantation were impregnating her. When Jefferson died, Sally and her children were set free. His other slaves weren't. Why would he agree to put that in his will if she wasn't his pseudo-wife and his children with her HIS children?
So again, the EVIDENCE says, either he was impregnating her or he was allowing his male relatives to come to his house to rape her and they impregnated her. With the historical provenance, it's way more likely and fucking obvious he was the one impregnating her.
How the fuck does someone ignore the entire historical community and their findings and evidence and reasoning and take the word of some dumb blow hard cunt like Ann Coulter who has zero credibility and take that bullshit as truth?
"The charge was first leveled in 1802 by a muckraking, racist, alcoholic journalist, James Callender, who had served prison time for his particular brand of journalism. He had tried to blackmail Jefferson into appointing him postmaster at Richmond. When that failed, Callender retaliated by publicly accusing Jefferson of fathering the first-born son of Sally Hemings — or, as the charming Callender described her, “a slut as common as the pavement.”
"No serious historian ever believed Callender’s defamation — not Dumas Malone, Merrill Peterson, Douglass Adair or John Chester Miller. Not one. Their reasoning was that there was absolutely no evidence to support the theory and plenty to contradict it."
"In response to DNA proof that only one of Hemings’ children was related to any Jefferson male — and her firstborn son was definitely NOT fathered by any Jefferson — the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, the Monticello Association and the National Genealogical Society promptly announced their official positions: Thomas Jefferson fathered all six of Hemings’ children! Guided tours of Monticello today include the provably false information that Jefferson fathered all of Hemings’ children."
Eston was born in 1808, when Thomas Jefferson was 64 years old and in his second term as president. His brother Randolph was 52, and Randolph’s five sons were 17 to 24 years old. All of them were frequent visitors at Monticello.
While Jefferson was busy entertaining international visitors in the main house, Randolph would generally retire to the slave quarters to dance and fiddle. One slave, Isaac Granger Jefferson, described Randolph in his dictated memoirs thus: “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall, was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night.”
There is not a single account of Thomas Jefferson frequenting slave quarters. Nor did Jefferson take any interest in Hemings’ children. Randolph did, teaching all of Hemings’ sons to play the fiddle.
Nice work!
2. Maybe his interest was in fucking her and not in raising her children.
The thing I've noticed about you over time is that you really don't have a good facility for reasoning. You start with the answer you want work your backwards from there, and I'd add not cleverly.
These threads really do make you look like a dumb fuck. And it only entrenches my concern about who gets to be a cop.
Was there some kind of head injury involved with your retirement? Unless this is a J whoosh act, this entire thread really does not do you any favors Sleddy. Not at all.
