Remember now, it's the GOP that's moved to the fringe

Comments
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2024 is going to be special too at that rate....
Dems are tripling down on stupid going further to the left.
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The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
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I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies. -
Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.
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Good bandwagon argument. Also, a conflation.allpurpleallgold said:Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.
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College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver. -
This, you can line up the surge in educational costs with the surge in federal money and student loans. Most of it has gone to administration. That's what happens when the government gets in business.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
I actually think the driver for city pricing is just good old fashioned NIMBY-ism which spans both left and right. Cities where the supply of housing can't get built to accommodate the increase in demand have increasing prices. Everyone is for affordable housing when they are renting and against development once they own property. -
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.
Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.
The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
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I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.SFGbob said:
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.
Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.
The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700. -
creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
Bob gets it. Administrative positions in higher ed have trended toward dwarfing the number of faculty positions, and those admin structures aren't top heavy. Think Academic advisers, enrollment counselors, student affairs staff, and on and on. Each position typically full-time benefited with publicly-funded pension attached (at least in the case of public universities. Add in an explosion of free available money (federal loans and grants ear marked largely for one purpose) and institutions have lined up to pay themselves and blown up accordingly.creepycoug said:
I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.SFGbob said:
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.
Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.
The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.
Watch for an enrollment downturn that will really, really hurt.
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What about sports? The vast majority of sports programs are cost centers, not profit centers. And even for those who have a profit-center sport to pay for the others, most don't make real economic earnings.ramenduck said:creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
Bob gets it. Administrative positions in higher ed have trended toward dwarfing the number of faculty positions, and those admin structures aren't top heavy. Think Academic advisers, enrollment counselors, student affairs staff, and on and on. Each position typically full-time benefited with publicly-funded pension attached (at least in the case of public universities. Add in an explosion of free available money (federal loans and grants ear marked largely for one purpose) and institutions have lined up to pay themselves and blown up accordingly.creepycoug said:
I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.SFGbob said:
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.
Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.
The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.
Watch for an enrollment downturn that will really, really hurt.
Coaches, trainers, equipment, academic advisors, travel costs, facilities, etc. -
Which isnt perfect either.allpurpleallgold said:Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.
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No, it isn’t perfect but it’s a lot better than our system.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Which isnt perfect either.allpurpleallgold said:Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.
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Here are the numbers. http://www.fiscal.wa.gov/Salaries.aspx (2017)creepycoug said:
I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.SFGbob said:
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.
Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.
The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.
The schools charge what they do because they can. Without huge amounts of government money available to students the cost would be less. Rather than focusing on efficiency and value, the schools just know they don’t have do because of the endless supply of money shows no sign of slowing down. Meanwhile the professors who pretend to care about the students are laughing all the way to the bank. Something will change eventually, but for now it’s just a textbook definition of inflation. Too many dollars chasing a limited supply of goods. -
Foreign students backed by wealthy parents have crowded out many American kids. Add in wealthy Americans who buy their kids’ way into school through six figure donations—bribes. Then you have the societal pressure to subsidize smart low income minority kids. Someone has to cover the difference. Endowment funds swell and institutions bid up high profile professors to draw in the dollars.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Housing costs are driven by the FANGs and Microsoft. Liberalism has nothing to do with it. In Seattle, Amazon and Microsoft employ a shit load of people and they pay. Same with Apple, Google, Facebook, the PAC-12 Network, et. al in the Bay Area. -
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver. -
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.BleachedAnusDawg said:
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver. -
I've only been reading this board for a week or so, but this goes straight to the top of dumbest things I've seen.salemcoog said:
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.BleachedAnusDawg said:
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver. -
People should realize that you went to college and burn the money in a pile insteadHustlinOwl said:
I've only been reading this board for a week or so, but this goes straight to the top of dumbest things I've seen.salemcoog said:
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.BleachedAnusDawg said:
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver. -
Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo. -
I agree with this brother Cuog.salemcoog said:
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.BleachedAnusDawg said:
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
But I still see value in a well rounded college education. My kid, who majored in physics, will likely not wind up in a job requiring that line of education. But although she was a smart kid when she went in, she is a transformed person now. Better spoken, better critical thinking skills, more polish, more insight, better informed ... all of that stuff that is so fun to scoff at. It all depends on whether you go to school to really get an education (which I concede can be accomplished anywhere) or whether you go to school to check the box. Taking pictures of yourself with your buddies at frat parties and centering your life around the Greek system is now the "check the box" crowd.
I've had the pleasure and displeasure of having a ton of people work on my teams. I will take someone who took their college education seriously and who majored in math or classics to do a job that neither major "prepares" you for any day of the week over an average person with technical training. In my experience, smarts and generalized education always wins in the long run (though not always in the short run).
Of all the paralegals I've employed, I've had four or five real superstars. Every one of them lacked a "paralegal certification", and the best of them all who helped me with securities and M&A had never been near those areas of practice. She was a math major at UC Santa Cruz and all I ever had to do was explain what we were doing and why, once, and she was off and running.
That said, some things simply require technical training. Cleaning teeth, working on cars, and many other things. I get that. But the value of a solid liberal arts education, while easy and fun to mock, is still a great thing to have over the long run. It's good to stretch your brain. -
With everything you learned in college GayBob no one would hire you for your knowledge of history or political science? Shocking.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo. -
So both of you are in agreement with salemcoug's comment?
-
And still, I assume you would assign value to that BS, and that it indirectly helps you do your job better. Critical thinking, writing, comprehension, context, etc. The value of a liberal arts education.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo. -
I was a published author (letters to the editor) in Junior Highcreepycoug said:
And still, I assume you would assign value to that BS, and that it indirectly helps you do your job better. Critical thinking, writing, comprehension, context, etc. The value of a liberal arts education.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo.
I agree on critical thinking writing and the rest. I was just lucky enough to get it at home. College seemed like high school with big classes. Not for me
Instead I went to the jobsite to learn about cocaine, strippers, and hookers. Time well spent before I became management and spent my life crushing college grads for sport
Maybe I had a chip on my shoulder. Maybe the idea of filling trailers with college grads to build buildings is stupid.
I ran into Ivy Leaguers swinging a hammer and they seemed content to do so. Break time discussions were elevated
There is no simple formula for success but if you want to drive college costs back down the market will have to do it. The Feds helped jack it up. People charge what they do BECAUSE THEY CAN
They will teach you that in college -
Are you employed in the booming interpretive dance field?HustlinOwl said:
I've only been reading this board for a week or so, but this goes straight to the top of dumbest things I've seen.salemcoog said:
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.BleachedAnusDawg said:
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.creepycoug said:
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.SFGbob said:
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.UW_Doog_Bot said:The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver. -
RaceBannon said:
I was a published author (letters to the editor) in Junior Highcreepycoug said:
And still, I assume you would assign value to that BS, and that it indirectly helps you do your job better. Critical thinking, writing, comprehension, context, etc. The value of a liberal arts education.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo.
I agree on critical thinking writing and the rest. I was just lucky enough to get it at home. College seemed like high school with big classes. Not for me
Instead I went to the jobsite to learn about cocaine, strippers, and hookers. Time well spent before I became management and spent my life crushing college grads for sport
Maybe I had a chip on my shoulder. Maybe the idea of filling trailers with college grads to build buildings is stupid.
I ran into Ivy Leaguers swinging a hammer and they seemed content to do so. Break time discussions were elevated
There is no simple formula for success but if you want to drive college costs back down the market will have to do it. The Feds helped jack it up. People charge what they do BECAUSE THEY CAN
They will teach you that in college
-
History/Poli Sci could be applied to almost everything where more than one person is involved.creepycoug said:
And still, I assume you would assign value to that BS, and that it indirectly helps you do your job better. Critical thinking, writing, comprehension, context, etc. The value of a liberal arts education.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo. -
Of course I do. But that wasn't what Owl said now was it?creepycoug said:
And still, I assume you would assign value to that BS, and that it indirectly helps you do your job better. Critical thinking, writing, comprehension, context, etc. The value of a liberal arts education.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo. -
That's a good Kunt, move those goal posts.HustlinOwl said:
History/Poli Sci could be applied to almost everything where more than one person is involved.creepycoug said:
And still, I assume you would assign value to that BS, and that it indirectly helps you do your job better. Critical thinking, writing, comprehension, context, etc. The value of a liberal arts education.SFGbob said:Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.
I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo.
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major.
You claimed that statement was the dumbest thing you've ever read. I've never worked in a job that was related to my major. You talked out your ass and now you're dancing like a Kunt.