Remember now, it's the GOP that's moved to the fringe

SFGbob · June 2019

PurpleThrobber · June 2019

2024 is going to be special too at that rate....

Dems are tripling down on stupid going further to the left.

UW_Doog_Bot · June 2019

The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.

SFGbob · June 2019

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.

I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.

allpurpleallgold · June 2019

Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.

UW_Doog_Bot · June 2019

allpurpleallgold said:
Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.

Good bandwagon argument. Also, a conflation.

creepycoug · June 2019

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.

College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.

UW_Doog_Bot · June 2019

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.

This, you can line up the surge in educational costs with the surge in federal money and student loans. Most of it has gone to administration. That's what happens when the government gets in business.

I actually think the driver for city pricing is just good old fashioned NIMBY-ism which spans both left and right. Cities where the supply of housing can't get built to accommodate the increase in demand have increasing prices. Everyone is for affordable housing when they are renting and against development once they own property.

SFGbob · June 2019

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.

Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.

a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.

creepycoug · June 2019

SFGbob said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.

a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.

I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.

My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.

ramenduck · June 2019

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.

a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.

My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.

Bob gets it. Administrative positions in higher ed have trended toward dwarfing the number of faculty positions, and those admin structures aren't top heavy. Think Academic advisers, enrollment counselors, student affairs staff, and on and on. Each position typically full-time benefited with publicly-funded pension attached (at least in the case of public universities. Add in an explosion of free available money (federal loans and grants ear marked largely for one purpose) and institutions have lined up to pay themselves and blown up accordingly.

Watch for an enrollment downturn that will really, really hurt.

creepycoug · June 2019

ramenduck said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.

a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.

My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.
Bob gets it. Administrative positions in higher ed have trended toward dwarfing the number of faculty positions, and those admin structures aren't top heavy. Think Academic advisers, enrollment counselors, student affairs staff, and on and on. Each position typically full-time benefited with publicly-funded pension attached (at least in the case of public universities. Add in an explosion of free available money (federal loans and grants ear marked largely for one purpose) and institutions have lined up to pay themselves and blown up accordingly.

Watch for an enrollment downturn that will really, really hurt.

What about sports? The vast majority of sports programs are cost centers, not profit centers. And even for those who have a profit-center sport to pay for the others, most don't make real economic earnings.

Coaches, trainers, equipment, academic advisors, travel costs, facilities, etc.

PostGameOrangeSlices · June 2019

allpurpleallgold said:
Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.

Which isnt perfect either.

allpurpleallgold · June 2019

PostGameOrangeSlices said:

allpurpleallgold said:
Nothing says fringe like the same healthcare system everyone else has.
Which isnt perfect either.

No, it isn’t perfect but it’s a lot better than our system.

MikeDamone · June 2019

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
Administrative staff positions and their pay has exploded college level.

a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions.

Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase.

The rapid increase in college enrollment can be defended by intellectually respectable arguments. Even the explosion in administrative personnel is, at least in theory, defensible. On the other hand, there are no valid arguments to support the recent trend toward seven-figure salaries for high-ranking university administrators, unless one considers evidence-free assertions about “the market” to be intellectually rigorous.
I think the high-priced admins are going to be those people at the tippy top. Running the UW or a UC is akin to running a mid-size city. Large and complex organizations require talented managers, like a CEO of a large corporation. For smaller private colleges, it's a different argument. Colleges are just a different animal. Market explanations have to be really qualified. They don't compete for capital the same way other business organizations do. They aren't evaluated at all like other business organizations are. It's about raising money through donations and gifts, generating prestige (different ways to do that depending on whether you're a large research machine like UW or a small elite college like Amherst) and managing the faculty.

My daughter just graduated from a small private college in New England ... I didn't perceive it to be overly bloated at the admin level, and they have a lot of money to burn. Probably harder to hide the fat when you're at a school with a total student pop. of 2700.

Here are the numbers. http://www.fiscal.wa.gov/Salaries.aspx (2017)

The schools charge what they do because they can. Without huge amounts of government money available to students the cost would be less. Rather than focusing on efficiency and value, the schools just know they don’t have do because of the endless supply of money shows no sign of slowing down. Meanwhile the professors who pretend to care about the students are laughing all the way to the bank. Something will change eventually, but for now it’s just a textbook definition of inflation. Too many dollars chasing a limited supply of goods.

Baseman · June 2019

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.

Foreign students backed by wealthy parents have crowded out many American kids. Add in wealthy Americans who buy their kids’ way into school through six figure donations—bribes. Then you have the societal pressure to subsidize smart low income minority kids. Someone has to cover the difference. Endowment funds swell and institutions bid up high profile professors to draw in the dollars.

Housing costs are driven by the FANGs and Microsoft. Liberalism has nothing to do with it. In Seattle, Amazon and Microsoft employ a shit load of people and they pay. Same with Apple, Google, Facebook, the PAC-12 Network, et. al in the Bay Area.

BleachedAnusDawg · June 2019

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.

I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.

Kaepsknee · June 2019

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.

I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.

HustlinOwl · June 2019

salemcoog said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.

I've only been reading this board for a week or so, but this goes straight to the top of dumbest things I've seen.

RaceBannon · June 2019

HustlinOwl said:

salemcoog said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:
The dems spent 20 yrs radicalizing a generation by indoctrination in the public school system. That generation is now going to eat them.
I think one of the things pushing young folks to the left has been the cost of college and the debt many of these kids are incurring from their school expenses.

But you have to ask, who is running the schools? Who is making college so expensive? What is making housing so expensive in liberal run cities and states? It's not conservatives or conservative policies.
College Expense: I don't know for certain, but I've asked the same thing. I'm aware of a few things that must be drivers. For instance, most faculty get some kind of pension and they tend to have good healthcare coverage. Pensions, as even profitable corporations have found, are expensive af - a promise most wished they'd never made (see the many 8-K filings out there reporting pension transfer transactions numbering in the billions of $). Healthcare is everybody's million $ question. Professors don't make much money relative to their options, and so it seems these benefits have settled in as strongly market driven. It is a long and hard road to get a PhD, and not everyone has what it takes. These people tend to be expensive labor. The other thing that makes it expensive is the government and all the other sources of free money. Not everyone should or needs to go to college. Take the free money out of the equation, and I suspect the price would drop.

Liberal Run Cities: Again, I'm not the expert. But I would surmise that's it's almost entirely driven by good old fashioned supply and demand dynamics. SF, Seattle, Chicago, DC, Boston, Austin, LA, etc. are money towns. Commerce, capital formation, demand for expensive talent, etc. ... these things happen in those cities to a greater extent than they do elsewhere. I just got back from Indianapolis. Not as much going on there as there is here in Seattle, for example. I'm sure the liberal city councils and the extra taxes and fees and bullshit contribute to the expense, but I'm guessing it's a drop in the bucket relative to the main driver.
I agree that there is a supply and demand component driving university costs, but I would argue this from the perspective that there are too many youths attending college. I employ people who have college degrees and are performing jobs not related to their degree, and which do not require a degree to perform them. More trade schools, less college.
I would guess about 10% of those with BS degrees are actually working in a field that is related to their major. Most companies care about college because it proved that you could see something through for 4-5 years. I'd say it's a pretty expensive and mostly unnecessary litmus test for 81% of the jobs out there.
I've only been reading this board for a week or so, but this goes straight to the top of dumbest things I've seen.

People should realize that you went to college and burn the money in a pile instead

SFGbob · June 2019

Yeah, all the evidence you provided in support of your feelings was very impressive.

I have a BS in history and Poli Sci. No job I've ever held since graduating from college has been related to either major. You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen Owl outside of Hondo.

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