David Frum's Bullet Points on Immigration
(2) The fiscal costs of present immigration policies are high. The argument that immigrants strengthen Social Security and Medicare is false. America’s bias in favor of low-skilled immigrants, legal and illegal, means that immigrants pay relatively little in taxes, while requiring a lot by way of services.
(3) The most important costs and benefits of immigration are neither economic nor fiscal, but social and political.
(4) Among those social and political costs: the radicalization of politics that we see in so many developed countries. Brexit, the rise of the French National Front, the triumph of authoritarian populists in Italy and other European Union countries, and America’s own election of Donald Trump—all were fueled by many causes, but high levels of immigration provided the spark.
(5) The pressures of immigration are not going away on their own. Over the coming decades, more and more people in the global South will be able to afford to make their way—legally, illegally, or as asylum seekers—to the global North. Unless properly managed, this impending movement of people may destabilize democratic governments on an even greater scale than anything we have yet seen.
(6) Many of the benefits of immigration can be gained, and many of the harms minimized, by more strategic immigration policies, including stricter enforcement in the workplace to protect legal workers; faster removal of unfounded asylum claimants; more emphasis on skilled rather than unskilled immigrants; and lower total numbers of immigrants.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/david-frum-reacts-immigration-responses/585391/
Comments
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I am confused because when you said bullets I thought he wanted genocide.
then you numbered them -
I've long stated in the Tug that Trump is god's judgement for the collective stupidity of the Democratic and Republican parties of the past number of decades. As with the case on so many policy matters, I find Trump's messaging to be shitty and demagogic (Messico wasn't going to pay for the wall) and still can't stand the man. But he wouldn't be in office today, if we have fixed the illegal immigration issue decades ago. The Dems are so fucking stupid on this issue in that you can't protect the group you claim needing protection unless you win elections. Open borders is bad electoral college politics.
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Look at my post about New Mexico todayYellowSnow said:I've long stated in the Tug that Trump is god's judgement for the collective stupidity of the Democratic and Republican parties of the past number of decades. As with the case on so many policy matters, I find Trump's messaging to be shitty and demagogic (Messico wasn't going to pay for the wall) and still can't stand the man. But he wouldn't be in office today, if we have fixed the illegal immigration issue decades ago. The Dems are so fucking stupid on this issue in that you can't protect the group you claim needing protection unless you win elections. Open borders is bad electoral college politics.
Nobody is learning -
Yes, I don't want militias patrolling the border. That's not a good situation.RaceBannon said:
Look at my post about New Mexico todayYellowSnow said:I've long stated in the Tug that Trump is god's judgement for the collective stupidity of the Democratic and Republican parties of the past number of decades. As with the case on so many policy matters, I find Trump's messaging to be shitty and demagogic (Messico wasn't going to pay for the wall) and still can't stand the man. But he wouldn't be in office today, if we have fixed the illegal immigration issue decades ago. The Dems are so fucking stupid on this issue in that you can't protect the group you claim needing protection unless you win elections. Open borders is bad electoral college politics.
Nobody is learning -
Amazing how such logic could be printed in a liberal rag like The Atlantic by one of the most prominent Never Trump cuckolds.
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I've been enjoying many pieces from The Atlantic of late. Several writers there saw how horrible media practices were on the Covington Catholic story, for example.YellowSnow said:Amazing how such logic could be printed in a liberal rag like The Atlantic by one of the most prominent Never Trump cuckolds.
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The Atlantic is left of center no doubt, but they do have some good journalists.GrundleStiltzkin said:
I've been enjoying many pieces from The Atlantic of late. Several writers there saw how horrible media practices were on the Covington Catholic story, for example.YellowSnow said:Amazing how such logic could be printed in a liberal rag like The Atlantic by one of the most prominent Never Trump cuckolds.
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Hondo when he sees this thread
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The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.
White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.
Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.
It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.
I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system. -
He won't. That eddy of the swamp runs deep.UW_Doog_Bot said:The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.
White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.
Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.
It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.
I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system. -
The Rats have pretty much written off the White working class vote.UW_Doog_Bot said:The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.
White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.
Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.
It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.
I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system. -
I don’t know how they expect to keep the coalition of victims together. Blacks don’t like illegal immigration. Hispanics don’t like abortion in the 3rd trimester. Gays don’t like Muslims that want them stoned to death. Muslims hate gays. Rich tech liberals don’t want to pay 70% top rate.SFGbob said:
The Rats have pretty much written off the White working class vote.UW_Doog_Bot said:The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.
White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.
Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.
It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.
I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system. -
The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.
The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.
Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one willhave toclean up after me. -
Make sure to sleep with the light on tonight and with the pillow over your head. The scary illegal immigrant who’s about to steal your job won’t hurt you.LebamDawg said:The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.
The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.
Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one willhave toclean up after me. -
“The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”
That works for me. -
Come on @CirrhosisDawg , Frum’s our boy and his analysis is spot onCirrhosisDawg said:
Make sure to sleep with the light on tonight and with the pillow over your head. The scary illegal immigrant who’s about to steal your job won’t hurt you.LebamDawg said:The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.
The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.
Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one willhave toclean up after me. -
I do my own lawn and what not, but Mrs Yella insists on a house cleaner bi-weekly so we’re only capturing some benefit.MikeDamone said:“The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”
That works for me. -
I do literally nothing. Mrs Damone does the wash. That about it. Mexicans (or people from Mexican countries) does the outside. Russians and Americans take care of the inside.YellowSnow said:
I do my own lawn and what not, but Mrs Yella insists on a house cleaner bi-weekly so we’re only capturing some benefit.MikeDamone said:“The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”
That works for me.
Hard to spend all day at the bar with a bunch of chores hanging over my head. -
I quit my job - and what is funny - it went to a Mexican from Calexico - went to UCLA. I go shooting with him, he would not hesitate to go patrol the borders himself. Although when we drive thru Everett and Mukilteo wearing his bandana he asks me to tell the cops that he's my gardener, so he knows realityCirrhosisDawg said:
Make sure to sleep with the light on tonight and with the pillow over your head. The scary illegal immigrant who’s about to steal your job won’t hurt you.LebamDawg said:The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.
The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.
Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one willhave toclean up after me. -
Wait so you’re the do nothing owner? The guy waiving on the side of the Southwest Plumbing Truck? God, I hate you and your highway robbery prices.MikeDamone said:
I do literally nothing. Mrs Damone does the wash. That about it. Mexicans (or people from Mexican countries) does the outside. Russians and Americans take care of the inside.YellowSnow said:
I do my own lawn and what not, but Mrs Yella insists on a house cleaner bi-weekly so we’re only capturing some benefit.MikeDamone said:“The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”
That works for me.
Hard to spend all day at the bar with a bunch of chores hanging over my head. -
Frum is s prolific writer and policy analyst. I have great respect for his work but disagree with him on illegal immigration. The issue has been studied voluminously and the financial and economic benefits are significant. The political / social issues are contrivances.YellowSnow said:
Come on @CirrhosisDawg , Frum’s our boy and his analysis is spot onCirrhosisDawg said:
Make sure to sleep with the light on tonight and with the pillow over your head. The scary illegal immigrant who’s about to steal your job won’t hurt you.LebamDawg said:The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.
The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.
Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one willhave toclean up after me. -
Leftards lie and love to be lied to. Illegal immigrants are an economic burden. Mixing them in with legal immigration is a game dishonest open border types love to play. Remember the hysterical screams of you dishonest pussies when Trump threatened to dump illegals into sanctuary cities?
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Dems single handedly lost because they refused to even acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem.
It's completely insane.
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I remember trump caving like the obese pussy he is. He talks tuff to impress the white trash that voted for him, but he’ll never back it up.WestlinnDuck said:Leftards lie and love to be lied to. Illegal immigrants are an economic burden. Mixing them in with legal immigration is a game dishonest open border types love to play. Remember the hysterical screams of you dishonest pussies when Trump threatened to dump illegals into sanctuary cities?
By all means, trump should use public funds to transport thousands of illegals hundreds of miles north of the border where they will get relocation assistance, funding, as well as job training. I live in Los Angeles county and I support this trump proposal 100 pct. glad to see a smart guy like you does as well. -
CirrhosisDawg said:
I remember trump caving like the obese pussy he is. He talks tuff to impress the white trash that voted for him, but he’ll never back it up.WestlinnDuck said:Leftards lie and love to be lied to. Illegal immigrants are an economic burden. Mixing them in with legal immigration is a game dishonest open border types love to play. Remember the hysterical screams of you dishonest pussies when Trump threatened to dump illegals into sanctuary cities?
By all means, trump should use public funds to transport thousands of illegals hundreds of miles north of the border where they will get relocation assistance, funding, as well as job training. I live in Los Angeles county and I support this trump proposal 100 pct. glad to see a smart guy like you does as well.
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Very very few Democrats think illegal immigration isn't a problem. I know your media source only focuses on a couple Democrats. And projects that into all Democrats. But that's not reality. The issue with the wall isn't about illegal immigration or border security. It's that putting the wall where Trump wants to build it will cost a shit ton of money and won't accomplish anything. And simple minded people like you think a wall is the only method of border security.Pitchfork51 said:Dems single handedly lost because they refused to even acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem.
It's completely insane. -
How old are you again?RaceBannon said:CirrhosisDawg said:
I remember trump caving like the obese pussy he is. He talks tuff to impress the white trash that voted for him, but he’ll never back it up.WestlinnDuck said:Leftards lie and love to be lied to. Illegal immigrants are an economic burden. Mixing them in with legal immigration is a game dishonest open border types love to play. Remember the hysterical screams of you dishonest pussies when Trump threatened to dump illegals into sanctuary cities?
By all means, trump should use public funds to transport thousands of illegals hundreds of miles north of the border where they will get relocation assistance, funding, as well as job training. I live in Los Angeles county and I support this trump proposal 100 pct. glad to see a smart guy like you does as well. -
Lies lies and more lies2001400ex said:
Very very few Democrats think illegal immigration isn't a problem. I know your media source only focuses on a couple Democrats. And projects that into all Democrats. But that's not reality. The issue with the wall isn't about illegal immigration or border security. It's that putting the wall where Trump wants to build it will cost a shit ton of money and won't accomplish anything. And simple minded people like you think a wall is the only method of border security.Pitchfork51 said:Dems single handedly lost because they refused to even acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem.
It's completely insane. -
All Hondo does is lie. And of all the Rats running for President I think only Bernie has said he wants to clamp down on illegal immigration. The rest are either open border types like Beto or hide behind mealy mouth crap like the need for comprehensive immigration reform, which means let more illegals in and grant citizenship to them.RaceBannon said:
Lies lies and more lies2001400ex said:
Very very few Democrats think illegal immigration isn't a problem. I know your media source only focuses on a couple Democrats. And projects that into all Democrats. But that's not reality. The issue with the wall isn't about illegal immigration or border security. It's that putting the wall where Trump wants to build it will cost a shit ton of money and won't accomplish anything. And simple minded people like you think a wall is the only method of border security.Pitchfork51 said:Dems single handedly lost because they refused to even acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem.
It's completely insane. -
Bernie can't fight for the little guy while being a tool of the rich and powerful who want to suppress wages and worker's rights
He was against illegals, dallied with open borders but has come back to border security
