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Matt Taibbi's essay, "It's official: Russiagate is this generation's WMD"
GrundleStiltzkin
Member Posts: 61,516 
in Tug Tavern
It's been mentioned here a tim or two, and it's all over media, uh, social media. I know next to nothing about Matt Taibbi but seems doubtful he's #TeamMAGA. In fact, on a subject intrinsically about Trump, his essay says little about Trump the man or president. This is an absolute scouring of press practices. I found little I disagreed with, which is somewhat troubling.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million
Read the whole thing. Here's some choice cuts.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million
Read the whole thing. Here's some choice cuts.
Nothing Trump is accused of from now on by the press will be believed by huge chunks of the population, a group that (perhaps thanks to this story) is now larger than his original base. As Baker notes, a full 50.3% of respondents in a poll conducted this month said they agree with Trump the Mueller probe is a “witch hunt.”
There will be people protesting: the Mueller report doesn’t prove anything! What about the 37 indictments? The convictions? The Trump tower revelations? The lies! The meeting with Don, Jr.? The financial matters! There’s an ongoing grand jury investigation, and possible sealed indictments, and the House will still investigate, and…
Stop. Just stop. Any journalist who goes there is making it worse.
Stop. Just stop. Any journalist who goes there is making it worse.
In January of 2017, Steele’s pile of allegations became public, read by millions. “It is not just unconfirmed,” Buzzfeed admitted. “It includes some clear errors.”
Buzzfeed’s decision exploded traditional journalistic standards against knowingly publishing material whose veracity you doubt. Although a few media ethicists wondered at it, this seemed not to bother the rank-and-file in the business. Buzzfeed chief Ben Smith is still proud of his decision today. I think this was because many reporters believed the report was true.
Buzzfeed’s decision exploded traditional journalistic standards against knowingly publishing material whose veracity you doubt. Although a few media ethicists wondered at it, this seemed not to bother the rank-and-file in the business. Buzzfeed chief Ben Smith is still proud of his decision today. I think this was because many reporters believed the report was true.
The Steele report was the Magna Carta of #Russiagate. It provided the implied context for thousands of news stories to come, yet no journalist was ever able to confirm its most salacious allegations: the five year cultivation plan, the blackmail, the bribe from Sechin, the Prague trip, the pee romp, etc. In metaphorical terms, we were unable to independently produce Steele’s results in the lab. Failure to reckon with this corrupted the narrative from the start.
For years, every hint the dossier might be true became a banner headline, while every time doubt was cast on Steele’s revelations, the press was quiet. Washington Post reporter Greg Miller had a team looking for evidence Cohen had been in Prague. Reporters, Miller said, “literally spent weeks and months trying to run down” the Cohen story.
“We sent reporters through every hotel in Prague, through all over the place, just to try to figure out if he was ever there,” he said, “and came away empty.”
This was heads-I-win, tails-you-lose reporting. One assumes if Miller’s crew found Cohen’s name in a hotel ledger, it would have been on page 1 of the Post. The converse didn’t get a mention in Miller’s own paper. He only told the story during a discussion aired by C-SPAN about a new book he’d published. Only The Daily Caller and a few conservative blogs picked it up.*
For years, every hint the dossier might be true became a banner headline, while every time doubt was cast on Steele’s revelations, the press was quiet. Washington Post reporter Greg Miller had a team looking for evidence Cohen had been in Prague. Reporters, Miller said, “literally spent weeks and months trying to run down” the Cohen story.
“We sent reporters through every hotel in Prague, through all over the place, just to try to figure out if he was ever there,” he said, “and came away empty.”
This was heads-I-win, tails-you-lose reporting. One assumes if Miller’s crew found Cohen’s name in a hotel ledger, it would have been on page 1 of the Post. The converse didn’t get a mention in Miller’s own paper. He only told the story during a discussion aired by C-SPAN about a new book he’d published. Only The Daily Caller and a few conservative blogs picked it up.*
In its FISA application, the FBI included both the unconfirmed Steele report and Isikoff’s September 23, 2016 Yahoo! story, “U.S. Intel Officials probe ties between Trump adviser and Kremlin.” The Isikoff story, which claimed Page had met with “high ranking sanctioned officials” in Russia, had relied upon Steele as an unnamed source.
This was similar to a laundering technique used in the WMD episode called “stove-piping,” i.e. officials using the press to “confirm” information the officials themselves fed the reporter.
But there was virtually no non-conservative press about this problem apart from a Washington Post story pooh-poohing the issue. (Every news story that casts any doubt on the collusion issue seems to meet with an instantaneous “fact check” in the Post.) The Post insisted the FISA issue wasn’t serious among other things because Steele was not the “foundation” of Isikoff’s piece.
This was similar to a laundering technique used in the WMD episode called “stove-piping,” i.e. officials using the press to “confirm” information the officials themselves fed the reporter.
But there was virtually no non-conservative press about this problem apart from a Washington Post story pooh-poohing the issue. (Every news story that casts any doubt on the collusion issue seems to meet with an instantaneous “fact check” in the Post.) The Post insisted the FISA issue wasn’t serious among other things because Steele was not the “foundation” of Isikoff’s piece.
This has been a consistent pattern throughout #Russiagate. Step one: salacious headline. Step two, days or weeks later: news emerges the story is shakier than first believed. Step three (in the best case) involves the story being walked back or retracted by the same publication.
That’s been rare. More often, when explosive #Russiagate headlines go sideways, the original outlets simply ignore the new development, leaving the “retraction” process to conservative outlets that don’t reach the original audiences.
That’s been rare. More often, when explosive #Russiagate headlines go sideways, the original outlets simply ignore the new development, leaving the “retraction” process to conservative outlets that don’t reach the original audiences.
Years ago, in the midst of the WMD affair, Times public editor Daniel Okrent noted the paper’s standard had moved from “Don’t get it first, get it right” to “Get it first and get it right.” From there, Okrent wrote, “the next devolution was an obvious one.”
We’re at that next devolution: first and wrong. The Russiagate era has so degraded journalism that even once “reputable” outlets are now only about as right as politicians, which is to say barely ever, and then only by accident.
Early on, I was so amazed by the sheer quantity of Russia “bombshells” being walked back, I started to keep a list. It’s well above 50 stories now. As has been noted by Glenn Greenwald of the Intercept and others, if the mistakes were random, you’d expect them in both directions, but Russiagate errors uniformly go the same way.
We’re at that next devolution: first and wrong. The Russiagate era has so degraded journalism that even once “reputable” outlets are now only about as right as politicians, which is to say barely ever, and then only by accident.
Early on, I was so amazed by the sheer quantity of Russia “bombshells” being walked back, I started to keep a list. It’s well above 50 stories now. As has been noted by Glenn Greenwald of the Intercept and others, if the mistakes were random, you’d expect them in both directions, but Russiagate errors uniformly go the same way.
Russiagate institutionalized one of the worst ethical loopholes in journalism, which used to be limited mainly to local crime reporting. It’s always been a problem that we publish mugshots and names of people merely arrested but not yet found guilty. Those stories live forever online and even the acquitted end up permanently unable to get jobs, smeared as thieves, wife-beaters, drunk drivers, etc.
With Russiagate the national press abandoned any pretense that there’s a difference between indictment and conviction. The most disturbing story involved Maria Butina. Here authorities and the press shared responsibility. Thanks to an indictment that initially said the Russian traded sex for favors, the Times and other outlets flooded the news cycle with breathless stories about a redheaded slut-temptress come to undermine democracy, a “real-life Red Sparrow,” as ABC put it.
But a judge threw out the sex charge after “five minutes” when it turned out to be based on a single joke text to a friend who had taken Butina’s car for inspection.
With Russiagate the national press abandoned any pretense that there’s a difference between indictment and conviction. The most disturbing story involved Maria Butina. Here authorities and the press shared responsibility. Thanks to an indictment that initially said the Russian traded sex for favors, the Times and other outlets flooded the news cycle with breathless stories about a redheaded slut-temptress come to undermine democracy, a “real-life Red Sparrow,” as ABC put it.
But a judge threw out the sex charge after “five minutes” when it turned out to be based on a single joke text to a friend who had taken Butina’s car for inspection.
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Comments
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Forgot a couple other gems.It’s a mania. Putin is literally in our underpants. Maybe, if we’re lucky, New York might someday admit its report claiming Russians set up an anti-masturbation hotline to trap and blackmail random Americans is suspicious, not just because it seems absurd on its face, but because its source is the same “New Knowledge” group that admitted to faking Russian influence operations in Alabama.The WMD mess had massive real-world negative impact, leading to over a hundred thousand deaths and trillions in lost taxpayer dollars. Unless Russiagate leads to a nuclear conflict, we’re unlikely to ever see that level of consequence.
Still, Russiagate has led to unprecedented cooperation between the government and Internet platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and Google, all of which are censoring pages on the left, right, and in between in the name of preventing the “sowing of discord.” The story also had a profound impact on the situation in places like Syria, where Russian and American troops have sat across the Euphrates River from one another, two amped-up nuclear powers at a crossroads.
As a purely journalistic failure, however, WMD was a pimple compared to Russiagate. The sheer scale of the errors and exaggerations this time around dwarfs the last mess. Worse, it’s led to most journalists accepting a radical change in mission. We’ve become sides-choosers, obliterating the concept of the press as an independent institution whose primary role is sorting fact and fiction. -
I thought about posting it here yesterday but I knew none of you plebs would actually read it because it's longer than a tweet
Plus I'm not sure how you wouldn't know who he is if you follow politics. Unless you just live in an echo chamber. -
I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face. -
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face. -
This is a valid poont. Everyone thinks that internet content should be free (hi Hondo) so if you have a model based on clicks to drive ad revenue the incentives are all fucked up.MariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face. -
We've come full circle back to the paper baron days of yellow journalism. What's old is new again.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face. -
UW_Doog_Bot said:
We've come full circle back to the paper baron days of yellow journalism. What's old is new again.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
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The primary marketed value proposition of the mainline media organizations—in the social media era—is their commitment to real journalistic principles. They've whored that away.UW_Doog_Bot said:
We've come full circle back to the paper baron days of yellow journalism. What's old is new again.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face. -
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes -
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes -
But but but2001400ex said:
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
-
Obama fucked up healthcare so bad no one is able to make a decent push for anything new for like 10 years after the ACA. What a fucking disaster. He can suck it.2001400ex said:
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes -
Read the whole thing, which was hard. Man, what a shitshow. I didn't even know half of that. #fakenews is real as fuck
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Republicans had complete control of all three houses for two years. It's clear they have no solution to health Care other than to keep the current shitty system in place.Pitchfork51 said:
Obama fucked up healthcare so bad no one is able to make a decent push for anything new for like 10 years after the ACA. What a fucking disaster. He can suck it.2001400ex said:
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes -
Yeah no shit. But his entire platform the 2nd term was healthcare. It was the one thing everyone cared about.2001400ex said:
Republicans had complete control of all three houses for two years. It's clear they have no solution to health Care other than to keep the current shitty system in place.Pitchfork51 said:
Obama fucked up healthcare so bad no one is able to make a decent push for anything new for like 10 years after the ACA. What a fucking disaster. He can suck it.2001400ex said:
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
-
but but but2001400ex said:
Republicans had complete control of all three houses for two years. It's clear they have no solution to health Care other than to keep the current shitty system in place.Pitchfork51 said:
Obama fucked up healthcare so bad no one is able to make a decent push for anything new for like 10 years after the ACA. What a fucking disaster. He can suck it.2001400ex said:
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
I've savaged the GOP for not replacing Obamacare because unlike you I'm not a cocksucker
You still defend Obamacare
Which is the current shitty system in place -
#aclockworkshill #rightontim #HondoBros #lapdog2001400ex said:
Republicans had complete control of all three houses for two years. It's clear they have no solution to health Care other than to keep the current shitty system in place.Pitchfork51 said:
Obama fucked up healthcare so bad no one is able to make a decent push for anything new for like 10 years after the ACA. What a fucking disaster. He can suck it.2001400ex said:
And you don't care that Fox was anti Obama? Turns out there's a lot of conservative dicksuckers who want the message that liberals are coming for all that is right in America. And that's what Fox sells very well.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
@Pitchfork51 you can't besmirtch Obamacare without the chief lapdog nibbling at your balls.
As always its special to watch Hondofaggot move the goalposts after hearing for years how great Obamacare would be. The totally predictable failure it is -
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent -
Are you one advocating for state-funded media?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a piece from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent -
nice gotcha attemptGrundleStiltzkin said:
Are you one advocating for state-funded media?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a piece from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent -
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish
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Gotcha attempt? Hardly. There is a progressive argument for state-funded journalism. Repeated mention of profit-driven media as a problem brought the question to mind.MariotaTheGawd said:
nice gotcha attemptGrundleStiltzkin said:
Are you one advocating for state-funded media?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a piece from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent -
I think Fox is biased just as much to the right and CNN/MSNBC are to the left. But the in the demographic that watches cable news, there's just way more right of center folks, hence way higher viewership for Fox. Same is true for talk radio.RaceBannon said:
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish -
Alright then. Of course news outlets need to pay their bills. But there was a longstanding understanding between media companies and the public that in exchange for use of the public airwaves, they actually had to do some good. Taibbi talks about this quite a bit. Now that idea almost seems like a joke.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Gotcha attempt? Hardly. There is a progressive argument for state-funded journalism. Repeated mention of profit-driven media as a problem brought the question to mind.MariotaTheGawd said:
nice gotcha attemptGrundleStiltzkin said:
Are you one advocating for state-funded media?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a piece from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
Advertising introduces a particular sort of bias, so outlets like Democracy Now and The Nation survive on donations and subscriptions. They operate at a much smaller scale, obviously.
I think NPR does a pretty good job, but people like Chomsky have said that NPR is among the most rigid in limiting discussion into "acceptable discourse" and pretending like other ideas don't exist. I'm not really sure what to make of that because I just listen to NPR in the car and don't study it. -
Is it possible for you to actually engage on something without being a little bitch?RaceBannon said:
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish
And I'm talking about Manufacturing Consent. As in, the book. I'm sure you've heard of it. -
And so if your motivation was money you would........YellowSnow said:
I think Fox is biased just as much to the right and CNN/MSNBC are to the left. But the in the demographic that watches cable news, there's just way more right of center folks, hence way higher viewership for Fox. Same is true for talk radio.RaceBannon said:
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish
this isn't hard
And it is my point
CNN and MSNBC put bias ahead of profit on the Trump coverage
Sounds like right of center folks are better informed
They didn't waste two years watching about how Trump was going to be impeached or indicted or both -
So it isn't possible for youMariotaTheGawd said:
Is it possible for you to actually engage on something without being a little bitch?RaceBannon said:
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish
And I'm talking about Manufacturing Consent. As in, the book. I'm sure you've heard of it.
Got it -
MariotaTheGawd said:
Is it possible for you to actually engage on something without being a little bitch?RaceBannon said:
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPlavncXPKQ
Can you not disappear like a fart in the wind? -
If I didn't know what I was talking about but I felt like I had to be involved in the conversation because I never leave this message board, I'd be doing what you're doing nowRaceBannon said:
So it isn't possible for youMariotaTheGawd said:
Is it possible for you to actually engage on something without being a little bitch?RaceBannon said:
Can you put together a coherent post for once?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a chapter from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
MSNBC and CNN put bias ahead of profit. The ratings bear that out.
I am well aware of manufacturing consent for wars or calling the President a traitor. News is cheap so it turns a profit regardless.
You can't deny what I wrote so you respond with the usual gibberish
And I'm talking about Manufacturing Consent. As in, the book. I'm sure you've heard of it.
Got it -
That's why the over the air Big Four aren't as insane as their cable outlets. Close though.MariotaTheGawd said:
Alright then. Of course news outlets need to pay their bills. But there was a longstanding understanding understanding between media companies and the public that in exchange for use of the public airwaves, they actually had to do some good. Taibbi talks about this quite a bit. Now that idea almost seems like a joke.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Gotcha attempt? Hardly. There is a progressive argument for state-funded journalism. Repeated mention of profit-driven media as a problem brought the question to mind.MariotaTheGawd said:
nice gotcha attemptGrundleStiltzkin said:
Are you one advocating for state-funded media?MariotaTheGawd said:
If you don't think profit-driven news is a major problem and was a major factor in the way this was covered, you truly can't be saved.RaceBannon said:
You wouldMariotaTheGawd said:
I think it's more a symptom of profit-driven media than of any political agenda, although obviously there is some of that. He's talked about it in other places. The New Yorker infamously wouldn't even allow sales people on their editorial floor. Now tv news networks brag about being the most watched.YellowSnow said:I read it yesterday. I've also listened to his pod with Sam Harris. He's definitely not team #MAGA.
While I will continue to disagree with many here on "attempted coups" , I would agree that many in the media got way out ahead of evidence being collected and have a shit ton of egg on the face.
If it was profit driven CNN and MSNBC would be like Fox who kicks their ass
They were anti Trump all the time because of their political views. They hired hacks like Brennan and the rest to echo that view day and night
They deserve all the shame and mockery they get. From wherever it comes
Not that you care because you have zero credibility or self-awareness, but there's some irony in you denying this after upvoting the op, which is a piece from a book intended to be a follow-up to Manufacturing Consent
Advertising introduces a particular sort of bias, so outlets like Democracy Now and The Nation survive on donations and subscriptions. They operate at a much smaller scale, obviously.
I think NPR does a pretty good job, but people like Chomsky have said that NPR is among the most rigid in limiting discussion into "acceptable discourse" and pretending like other ideas don't exist. I'm not really sure what to make of that because I just listen to NPR in the car and don't study it.
Why is the Military Intelligence Complex the training ground for news experts on panel shows?
That's a pretty big conflict right there
Brennen was praised for wink wink knowing the real deal in his infamous the indictments are coming this week video
He's just another hack
