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Championship defense didn't show up

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  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,882
    Before anybody twists, I'm not suggesting that the defense was GREAT yesterday. But at the same time ... let's be real about what we saw:

    The Pats didn't run the ball ... 21 times for 57 yards. Longest rush was 9 yards. They didn't think that they could do much of it and they were validated in that assessment.

    Brady dropped back to throw 51 times for 320 net yards ... or a 6.6 yard per attempt. Not great. Would like to see a little better from the defense. Longest completions were a 23 yard crossing route to Edelman that was picked up mostly with RAC yards and the fade to Gronk for 22. Everything else was a shot and steady passing game.

    Saying that we didn't have an answer for Shane Vereen to me is FS. He had 11 catches for 64 yards. That's not terrible. Would have been better if for 50 yards. But it was what it was ... the throws to Vereen were basically extensions of the running game.

    Sherman needs Tommy John surgery. Earl needs surgery on a torn labrum. And apparently Kam shouldn't have played. In total, Brady STILL didn't really find ways to go after these guys and avoided them all together.

    The adjustments in the 2nd half? They were made ... see the INT by Wagner in faking that he was going to pass off the route and baiting Brady into that throw. For about 20 minutes of the 2nd half, the Pats were struggling to get anything going.

    What yesterday exposed was that the attrition from last year's team needs to be reproduced. A couple of years ago in the preseason the roster was so loaded that players that were cut ended up getting starting roles with other teams. The DL is in quality shape with guys like Bennett and Avril in place. They have some run stuffers. They need one more pass rushing option. I'm sure that they will prioritize that. They most likely will need to replace Maxwell (won't be able to resign him) and find a solid option in the slot. They are in good shape at the LB position.

    And BTW, the thing that killed the Hawks about the short passing game from Brady wasn't so much what he was doing on offense, it was what he was doing to Seattle's offense. New England ran 19 more plays yet gained 19 less yards. This has been a common theme in most of the Hawks losses as the Hawks are one of the league's best teams in creating chunk plays (a stat that Pepsi will tell you is a critical predictor of success).

    The Pats knew that their upper limit in points last night was probably around 28 ... so they needed to create a game where their defense would have the opportunity to find just enough stops to keep the Hawks under that number. That was the genius of Brady's offense last night.

    What the Hawks need to look into doing over the offseason in creating adjustments is finding opportunities when teams are looking to beat them short to pressure them into beating guys like Sherman or Thomas in the deep passing game. Teams want to avoid them. The adjustment needs to be made to force teams into testing them.
  • SteveInSheltonSteveInShelton Member Posts: 1,611
    Tequilla said:

    Before anybody twists, I'm not suggesting that the defense was GREAT yesterday. But at the same time ... let's be real about what we saw:

    The Pats didn't run the ball ... 21 times for 57 yards. Longest rush was 9 yards. They didn't think that they could do much of it and they were validated in that assessment.

    Brady dropped back to throw 51 times for 320 net yards ... or a 6.6 yard per attempt. Not great. Would like to see a little better from the defense. Longest completions were a 23 yard crossing route to Edelman that was picked up mostly with RAC yards and the fade to Gronk for 22. Everything else was a shot and steady passing game.

    Saying that we didn't have an answer for Shane Vereen to me is FS. He had 11 catches for 64 yards. That's not terrible. Would have been better if for 50 yards. But it was what it was ... the throws to Vereen were basically extensions of the running game.

    Sherman needs Tommy John surgery. Earl needs surgery on a torn labrum. And apparently Kam shouldn't have played. In total, Brady STILL didn't really find ways to go after these guys and avoided them all together.

    The adjustments in the 2nd half? They were made ... see the INT by Wagner in faking that he was going to pass off the route and baiting Brady into that throw. For about 20 minutes of the 2nd half, the Pats were struggling to get anything going.

    What yesterday exposed was that the attrition from last year's team needs to be reproduced. A couple of years ago in the preseason the roster was so loaded that players that were cut ended up getting starting roles with other teams. The DL is in quality shape with guys like Bennett and Avril in place. They have some run stuffers. They need one more pass rushing option. I'm sure that they will prioritize that. They most likely will need to replace Maxwell (won't be able to resign him) and find a solid option in the slot. They are in good shape at the LB position.

    And BTW, the thing that killed the Hawks about the short passing game from Brady wasn't so much what he was doing on offense, it was what he was doing to Seattle's offense. New England ran 19 more plays yet gained 19 less yards. This has been a common theme in most of the Hawks losses as the Hawks are one of the league's best teams in creating chunk plays (a stat that Pepsi will tell you is a critical predictor of success).

    The Pats knew that their upper limit in points last night was probably around 28 ... so they needed to create a game where their defense would have the opportunity to find just enough stops to keep the Hawks under that number. That was the genius of Brady's offense last night.

    What the Hawks need to look into doing over the offseason in creating adjustments is finding opportunities when teams are looking to beat them short to pressure them into beating guys like Sherman or Thomas in the deep passing game. Teams want to avoid them. The adjustment needs to be made to force teams into testing them.

    How many of those catches converted 3rd downs? I can count several off the top of my head and I'm sure I'm missing more. Extension of the run game lol. These weren't retarded bubble screens that picked up 4 yards on 2nd and 15, they were pretty important drive extending plays. New England went 8/14 on 3rd down, that's really bad and is why they held possession for over 33 minutes.
  • PurpleJPurpleJ Member Posts: 37,272 Founders Club
    Tequilla said:

    Before anybody twists, I'm not suggesting that the defense was GREAT yesterday. But at the same time ... let's be real about what we saw:

    The Pats didn't run the ball ... 21 times for 57 yards. Longest rush was 9 yards. They didn't think that they could do much of it and they were validated in that assessment.

    Brady dropped back to throw 51 times for 320 net yards ... or a 6.6 yard per attempt. Not great. Would like to see a little better from the defense. Longest completions were a 23 yard crossing route to Edelman that was picked up mostly with RAC yards and the fade to Gronk for 22. Everything else was a shot and steady passing game.

    Saying that we didn't have an answer for Shane Vereen to me is FS. He had 11 catches for 64 yards. That's not terrible. Would have been better if for 50 yards. But it was what it was ... the throws to Vereen were basically extensions of the running game.

    Sherman needs Tommy John surgery. Earl needs surgery on a torn labrum. And apparently Kam shouldn't have played. In total, Brady STILL didn't really find ways to go after these guys and avoided them all together.

    The adjustments in the 2nd half? They were made ... see the INT by Wagner in faking that he was going to pass off the route and baiting Brady into that throw. For about 20 minutes of the 2nd half, the Pats were struggling to get anything going.

    What yesterday exposed was that the attrition from last year's team needs to be reproduced. A couple of years ago in the preseason the roster was so loaded that players that were cut ended up getting starting roles with other teams. The DL is in quality shape with guys like Bennett and Avril in place. They have some run stuffers. They need one more pass rushing option. I'm sure that they will prioritize that. They most likely will need to replace Maxwell (won't be able to resign him) and find a solid option in the slot. They are in good shape at the LB position.

    And BTW, the thing that killed the Hawks about the short passing game from Brady wasn't so much what he was doing on offense, it was what he was doing to Seattle's offense. New England ran 19 more plays yet gained 19 less yards. This has been a common theme in most of the Hawks losses as the Hawks are one of the league's best teams in creating chunk plays (a stat that Pepsi will tell you is a critical predictor of success).

    The Pats knew that their upper limit in points last night was probably around 28 ... so they needed to create a game where their defense would have the opportunity to find just enough stops to keep the Hawks under that number. That was the genius of Brady's offense last night.

    What the Hawks need to look into doing over the offseason in creating adjustments is finding opportunities when teams are looking to beat them short to pressure them into beating guys like Sherman or Thomas in the deep passing game. Teams want to avoid them. The adjustment needs to be made to force teams into testing them.

    TL, DR.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,882

    Tequilla said:

    Before anybody twists, I'm not suggesting that the defense was GREAT yesterday. But at the same time ... let's be real about what we saw:

    The Pats didn't run the ball ... 21 times for 57 yards. Longest rush was 9 yards. They didn't think that they could do much of it and they were validated in that assessment.

    Brady dropped back to throw 51 times for 320 net yards ... or a 6.6 yard per attempt. Not great. Would like to see a little better from the defense. Longest completions were a 23 yard crossing route to Edelman that was picked up mostly with RAC yards and the fade to Gronk for 22. Everything else was a shot and steady passing game.

    Saying that we didn't have an answer for Shane Vereen to me is FS. He had 11 catches for 64 yards. That's not terrible. Would have been better if for 50 yards. But it was what it was ... the throws to Vereen were basically extensions of the running game.

    Sherman needs Tommy John surgery. Earl needs surgery on a torn labrum. And apparently Kam shouldn't have played. In total, Brady STILL didn't really find ways to go after these guys and avoided them all together.

    The adjustments in the 2nd half? They were made ... see the INT by Wagner in faking that he was going to pass off the route and baiting Brady into that throw. For about 20 minutes of the 2nd half, the Pats were struggling to get anything going.

    What yesterday exposed was that the attrition from last year's team needs to be reproduced. A couple of years ago in the preseason the roster was so loaded that players that were cut ended up getting starting roles with other teams. The DL is in quality shape with guys like Bennett and Avril in place. They have some run stuffers. They need one more pass rushing option. I'm sure that they will prioritize that. They most likely will need to replace Maxwell (won't be able to resign him) and find a solid option in the slot. They are in good shape at the LB position.

    And BTW, the thing that killed the Hawks about the short passing game from Brady wasn't so much what he was doing on offense, it was what he was doing to Seattle's offense. New England ran 19 more plays yet gained 19 less yards. This has been a common theme in most of the Hawks losses as the Hawks are one of the league's best teams in creating chunk plays (a stat that Pepsi will tell you is a critical predictor of success).

    The Pats knew that their upper limit in points last night was probably around 28 ... so they needed to create a game where their defense would have the opportunity to find just enough stops to keep the Hawks under that number. That was the genius of Brady's offense last night.

    What the Hawks need to look into doing over the offseason in creating adjustments is finding opportunities when teams are looking to beat them short to pressure them into beating guys like Sherman or Thomas in the deep passing game. Teams want to avoid them. The adjustment needs to be made to force teams into testing them.

    How many of those catches converted 3rd downs? I can count several off the top of my head and I'm sure I'm missing more. Extension of the run game lol. These weren't retarded bubble screens that picked up 4 yards on 2nd and 15, they were pretty important drive extending plays. New England went 8/14 on 3rd down, that's really bad and is why they held possession for over 33 minutes.
    The reason that they converted 8 of 14 is because their offense was designed to pick up 3-6 yards on most pass plays with the possibility for runs after the catches. They knew that they were in trouble playing from behind the chains.

    Most of Vereen's routes were throws to the flats where he was matched up 1 on 1 on a LB. Most of the time he was tackled fairly quickly.

    When you average less than 6 yards per catch, it's fair to say that your catches are more or less long handoffs.
  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    Defense wasn't great, but if Simon didn't play I bet it would have looked a lot better.
  • OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    topdawgnc said:



    Of course ... Paul Allen looks near death ... so there is that.

    He always looks like that.
  • sarktasticsarktastic Member Posts: 9,208

    Quinn or Carroll never made adjustments. I'm leaning toward Carroll because this was similar to the USC/Texas game where he had no answer to Vince Young. This time he had no answer to Shane Vereen and couldn't take Tharold Simon out of the game. Deactivating Burley looks terrible now because he was more suitable in the slot than Simon was.

    Never made adjustments? Good Christ... So, they left Jeremey Lane's position open after he broke his wrist?

    Try watching the game before posting, next time.
  • sarktasticsarktastic Member Posts: 9,208

    San Diego worked them with quick passes too. That's where the injuries hurt.

    That's how the Bruins beat the 90 Huskies.

    Yup, short passes KILL. It's how Halliday beat the
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