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If you believe in the people, believe in article 5

2

Comments

  • 2001400ex2001400ex Posts: 15,200
    10000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    MikeDamoneCuntWaffleSoutherndawg
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Posts: 15,200
    10000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes

    I'll agree to this tentatively in principle in exchange for an accompanying amendment of term limits on all members of Congress. 2 terms max. So there won't be any more Pelosis or Clintons or Bushes or Romneys in the future. Break up the oligarchy. Congress is the House of Lords. Break up the cliques before they can consolidate power. But first you need to address the taxation issue that was raised.

    While I agree on term limits. As long as there's money in politics the way it is now. The replacements will be bought off the same.
    MikeDamoneCuntWaffle
  • SoutherndawgSoutherndawg Posts: 5,124
    5000 Comments 250 Answers Fifth Anniversary 500 Awesomes
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Posts: 26,881
    10000 Comments 250 Answers Fucktard of the Week Award 500 Awesomes
    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
  • phineasphineas Posts: 3,524
    2500 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes
    I cant even troll in support of this. Chunk is a fat piece of shit.
    GrundleStiltzkinSoutherndawg
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Posts: 15,200
    10000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    MikeDamoneSoutherndawg
  • phineasphineas Posts: 3,524
    2500 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes
    Guys, we have this amazing invention, it's called Google. Go ahead and Google it!
    RaceBannon
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Posts: 26,881
    10000 Comments 250 Answers Fucktard of the Week Award 500 Awesomes
    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    I was a couple mules in and missed you're money stipulation, but looks like you answered that one yourself.
  • MikeDamoneMikeDamone Posts: 10,360
    5000 Comments 250 Answers Fifth Anniversary Fucktard of the Week Award

    On the Yella Party platform we would just tax all political contributions and call it good.

    Or just let free people do what they want....
    Like vote without an ID?
    Great false equivalency as always. Also very racist.
    I don’t think you know what a false equivalency is, Michael. See I asked a question, in order for me to say that two things are equivalent I would have to make a statement.

    Stop using big words when you don’t know what they mean.
    We all know what you meant and it was fucking stupid.
    Southerndawg
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Posts: 30,643
    25000 Comments 250 Answers Fifth Anniversary 500 Awesomes
    Hilary outspent Trump 2 to 1

    Hillary outspent Bernie by more than that

    She lost to both of them

    Money can't buy a good candidate

    JEB! was the GOP money choice and the first one out
    CuntWaffleSquirtSoutherndawgUW_Doog_Bot
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Posts: 15,200
    10000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    I was a couple mules in and missed you're money stipulation, but looks like you answered that one yourself.
    I thought you did your best work a couple of mules in?
    MikeDamone
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Posts: 26,881
    10000 Comments 250 Answers Fucktard of the Week Award 500 Awesomes
    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    I was a couple mules in and missed you're money stipulation, but looks like you answered that one yourself.
    I thought you did your best work in a couple of mules?
    FTFY
  • salemcoogsalemcoog Posts: 8,172
    5000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes
    Please stop with the Young Turk links. Maybe attend Politics fantasy camp if you can’t get enough of this guy.
    GrundleStiltzkinphineasSoutherndawg
  • USMChawkUSMChawk Posts: 125
    250 Awesomes 100 Comments 100 Up Votes Name Dropper
    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    The simple answer is that corporations can lobby because the Supreme Court has recognized them as “citizens” and, as you mentioned, the courts have interpreted it as a free speech issue.
    Southerndawg
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Posts: 15,200
    10000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes
    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    The simple answer is that corporations can lobby because the Supreme Court has recognized them as “citizens” and, as you mentioned, the courts have interpreted it as a free speech issue.
    It sounds like you are just repeating what I'm saying.
    MikeDamoneSoutherndawg
  • SquirtSquirt Posts: 178
    250 Awesomes 100 Up Votes 100 Comments Name Dropper

    Hilary outspent Trump 2 to 1

    Hillary outspent Bernie by more than that

    She lost to both of them

    Money can't buy a good candidate

    JEB! was the GOP money choice and the first one out

    Shoot me now, but I agree with Race. The evidence suggests that money in politics is overblown.

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/

    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/05/freakonomics_th.html

    But there is this: http://freakonomics.com/2014/04/04/some-evidence-on-whether-money-buys-political-influence/

    As a citizen, I kinda like the idea that I can organize with fellow citizens to try to influence electoral and legislative outcomes.
    GrundleStiltzkinRaceBannonSoutherndawg
  • SquirtSquirt Posts: 178
    250 Awesomes 100 Up Votes 100 Comments Name Dropper
    Squirt said:

    Shoot me now, but I agree with Race. The evidence suggests that money in politics is overblown.

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/

    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/05/freakonomics_th.html

    But there is this: http://freakonomics.com/2014/04/04/some-evidence-on-whether-money-buys-political-influence/

    As a citizen, I kinda like the idea that I can organize with fellow citizens to try to influence electoral and legislative outcomes.

    Also, it strikes me as wrong that the government (the City of Seattle, for example) can compel one citizen to finance another citizen's political speech. The "Democracy Voucher" stuff bugs me. I can't imagine it would be upheld if even litigated all the way to the Supreme Court.
    GrundleStiltzkinRaceBannonSoutherndawg
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Posts: 15,200
    10000 Comments 250 Answers 500 Awesomes 500 Up Votes
    Squirt said:

    Hilary outspent Trump 2 to 1

    Hillary outspent Bernie by more than that

    She lost to both of them

    Money can't buy a good candidate

    JEB! was the GOP money choice and the first one out

    Shoot me now, but I agree with Race. The evidence suggests that money in politics is overblown.

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/

    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/05/freakonomics_th.html

    But there is this: http://freakonomics.com/2014/04/04/some-evidence-on-whether-money-buys-political-influence/

    As a citizen, I kinda like the idea that I can organize with fellow citizens to try to influence electoral and legislative outcomes.
    There's a reason the election campaign fund was established and Obama blew that up. That being said, politicians still act on the wishes of the people who donate money. Not the people who elected them.
    MikeDamoneCuntWaffleSoutherndawg
  • USMChawkUSMChawk Posts: 125
    250 Awesomes 100 Comments 100 Up Votes Name Dropper
    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.

    Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?

    If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.

    Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
    Fuck, Hondao, seriously?
    Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?
    What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.

    What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.

    And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.

    Patently unconstitutional.

    Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.

    Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.

    The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
    How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.

    But maybe you know something I don't.
    The simple answer is that corporations can lobby because the Supreme Court has recognized them as “citizens” and, as you mentioned, the courts have interpreted it as a free speech issue.
    It sounds like you are just repeating what I'm saying.
    It sounds like you don’t know the difference between clarifying and repeating. Should I only post when I disagree with you entirely? Maybe through in a couple of ‘fucktards’ so you know I disagree?

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